Wednesday
Jun232010
Dunbar Village Suspect Arrested in Drive by Shooting
Wednesday, June 23, 2010 at 7:45AM The Blogmother
Well surprise surprise surprise ( NOT) one of the suspects in the Dunbar Village gang rape who was NEVER arrested or tried has now been implicated in a drive-by shooting. And all this BEFORE he even turns 18.
You would have thought that he would have thanked his lucky stars that he wasn't tried and sentenced to life in prison and would have made his way to Canada by now, but no, one way or another, he's hellbent on going to jail for the rest of his life, but not before he allegedly ruins as many of our lives as possible.
Augustus Fontaine, who turns 18 next month, also is a suspect in the savage June 2007 attack on a Dunbar Village woman and her son. Witnesses testified he and another man, Melvyn Young, were in the room during the assault, but neither was ever charged. Three other youths got life terms and a fourth a 30-year prison term.
Fontaine was transferred about 10 p.m. Monday from juvenile custody to the Palm Beach County Jail. He is charged with three counts of attempted murder in the shootings of Bernard Jones 17, and Marvin Crowley and Tavaris Fox, both 15, according to a West Palm Beach Police report. Palm Beach Post
You would have thought that he would have thanked his lucky stars that he wasn't tried and sentenced to life in prison and would have made his way to Canada by now, but no, one way or another, he's hellbent on going to jail for the rest of his life, but not before he allegedly ruins as many of our lives as possible.
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Reader Comments (47)
Hate to say it, but I'm glad this happened. At least now he will go to jail and serve some time.
It's ironic that it is Black men who are now his victims, when it was the NAACP and other Black men who were marching and protesting about these young thugs in the first place.
But, but... wait!!! We are an EEVIL police state hell bent on destroying black people!!!
I hope he rots in jail and big-ups to the judge, Krista Marx for remembering that this fool is a rapist... allegedly.
hey Patricia,
thats why black men with sense aren't into criminal coddling. They know who most of the victims are-they are.
Well, they finally got him off the streets. Just to bad that Jones, Crawley and Fox had to suffer first.
Seems like he finally gets his 45 years in prison.
He and Young was present when the rapes happened and as they didn't do anything to stop them, they should also get the sentences they deserve.
I take no pleasure in hearing this at all.I am relieved that the guy was caught but I had tried to convince myself that maybe the others weren't put in jail because they could claim being held at gunpoint against their will or something.I don't know about yall but this post was terrifying to me,seriously.I can see this boy growing up to be a serial killer rapist or something.I was completely horrified by this post.It's disturbing to say the least and I don't even scare easy.
@ Truth P, all of this is sad, the entire thing. At the same time, I'm glad this young man is arrested, I hope he's convicted and gets a long sentence to prison. I think these two were there and committed many crimes against the mother and son, but they were "smart enough" not to touch alot of things, left no fingerprints or DNA, etc.
Many times these criminals get caught and go to jail not so much for the crimes they commit, but because they are stupid criminals; they commit a crime(s) and ain't got sense enough to go to Africa, South America or a country with no extradition treaty with the U.S., the stupid #$% run across town to Pookie's house or Big Mama's house and then get caught. :(
Yes, the U.S. is moving further and further to the political right, with or without Democrats in office. Regarding police terrorism, they terrorize "good law abiding folks" and the "knuckle heads." So we all get caught up in their madness. Which is why we all need to be vigilant on many levels; for me that means I had to stay away from my own brother for over 15 years because of the nonsense he was in to and I was not going to get caught up, get killed, being around him, his homies and their dangerous foolishness.
Now as for the po po, many times, if they followed their own rules, there wouldn't be so many charges of police brutality, lawsuits, etc. Stupid, arrogant criminal minded po po as well. :(
RMA,
Even when police follw their own rules, black folks and liberal, guilt-ridden white folks will always make an argument of how the police are inherently unfair to criminal black people who deserve some of the treatment they get.
Moving to the political right doesn't equal a police state; it simply means that for many black people, the writing is on the wall and the time for excuse making is OVER.
@blkchk
But it isnt black men who coddle. Why would men coddle their competition? Now if they are your romantic interest or your progeny....
Why isn't anyone marching for him this time? Isn't it still the man trying to bring down a young black man? Or is it just now he is charged with a "real crime" with boys, males, getting harmed and not just some mess with some woman that like one of the Dunbar residents said "happens all the time."
Glad he got caught. Sorry it took more victims. Don't we realize that when we stick up for these thugs we are only heaping future harm on ourselves.
Any 15 year old that participated in that type of gang rape and violence was already gone. They've killed their conscience. It's not as if you wake up one day and go along with such a heinous crime. So whether it's raping and beating a woman or shooting a male they are a menace to society and need to be removed for our own safety. I don't know of people who "recover" from being sociopaths.
I agree with The Economist. Black men do not coddle black male criminals. The girlfriends/mothers/aunties/sisters of said criminals do the coddling and protecting most of the time.
Uh...yeah...the black men "coddle" criminals, too. It's called the "Don't Snitch" rule.
@Miki
The "Dont Snitch" rule isnt coddling criminals. You are either not snitching for two reasons. You dont want to be killed or because those criminals are apart of your enterprise. The honor among thieves is a lot older than not snitching.
Anecdotally, when I watch episodes of The First 48, I see many criminals hiding out in their mothers or girlfriends apartments.
@ economist, when I mean coddle I trying to fight for them politically. Many law abiding men with families usually don't involve themselves in that, they will be the first ones to say lock em up
The "Don't Snitch" rule is a twisted code of community conduct adopted by some communities out of both fear and misguided loyalty. This has the same practical effect of what you're calling "coddling."
People who don't tell the police where they know a criminal is hiding are just as culpable as the mothers, girlfriends, fathers and cousins hiding them. Hiding in a house. Hiding in a "community." Same thing.
Men coddle their friends, comrades, cousins and uncles with their silence.
Wait...or are you suggesting that most black men are criminals engaged in some "enterprise" and that the women coddle them all out of loyalty, fear??
@ The Economist
The "Don't Snitch" rule is a twisted code of community conduct adopted by some communities out of both fear and misguided loyalty. It has the same practical effect of what you're calling "coddling."
People who don't tell the police where they know a criminal is hiding are just as culpable as the mothers, girlfriends, fathers and cousins hiding them. Hiding in a house. Hiding in a "community." Same thing.
Men coddle their friends, comrades, cousins and uncles with their silence.
Wait...or are you suggesting that most black men are criminals engaged in some "enterprise" and that the women coddle them all out of loyalty, fear?? In that case, where are the non-criminal men and what's their role?
Economist and Reese, please don't come here making stupid arguments about black men not coddling other black men and that the "don't snitch" rule doesn't constitute coddling. People on this blog already know what time it is, and are not going to waste time splitting hairs with you over irrelevancies.
@Miki,
I know you asked the other poster but I'll just say this. Non-criminal men and men who do not condone crime under any circumstances tend to not allow women in their lives who coddle criminals. So in reality many of these women are only associating with men who are criminals or other men of low value in their lives. Some of these men are not criminals per se but are either sympathetic to criminal behavior, a "reformed" criminal or one step away from committing a crime themselves.
This is why it is hard to point a finger at who is exactly enabling all this crime happening in black areas. Just because some men still live in bad areas does not mean they automatically are condoning the crime that is happening there.
In my opinion it is law enforcement's job to hunt, find and arrest criminals with the cooperation of all residents. It's not the job of the men in the neighborhood to handle violent criminals. That's an unrealistic expectation. But it's also their job to NOT aid and abet these monsters and that goes for the women too. When you stop law enforcement from doing their job you are just as guilty as the person committing the crime.
@Miki
The fear is completely understandable. Black men have far more to loose than black women. Far more. Even when if a black woman does cooperate, they may go after her male relatives. It will be her male relatives who have to walk the neighborhood with that "stain."
I cant really fault them for abiding by the laws of the dystopia. It is a survival mechanism. For every Dunbar Village rape, there are 10 Derrion Alberts.
"Wait…or are you suggesting that most black men are criminals engaged in some “enterprise” and that the women coddle them all out of loyalty, fear?? In that case, where are the non-criminal men and what’s their role?"
Wow. Did you need a parachute for that leap of logic? By enterprise I mean members of your gang. Those gang members tend to have safe houses with women by the mothers, girlfriends or baby mamas.
"Men coddle their friends, comrades, cousins and uncles with their silence."
Detectives have few reasons to randomly question relatives of suspects assuming they werent apart of the crime. It is usually witnesses who dont want to talk or those who aid and abet.
Lastly, it is a lot harder to say you arent going to snitch because you hate the "po-po" than it is to say, "I'm scared I might get shot."
Police work is hard and I do think it is a certain type of person who seeks out this employment....maybe more aggressive or violent. But I for one, am glad we have a police force of men and women willing to put their lives online to protect us. I live in NY and there are plenty of crazy violent people in my city. Plenty.
I think it is the men in a community who must set the tone on criminality and let it be known that criminals will not be tolerated. I agree, It is not the job of the men in the community to handle violent criminals or do police work. But the fear and mistrust of police in the BC helps those who are committing crimes stay hidden. So both men and women in our community are active in coddling criminals.
I think often women are driven by strong maternal urges to the point of craziness. Or driven by the belief that love can change a man. I just read that Joran Van Der Sloot is getting a lot of marriage proposals sent to him in jail.
*Deep Sigh* I cosign with Miki @In that case, where are the non-criminal men and what’s their role?
A form of coddling is being indifferent because something doesn't affect you either way when you have the power to change things for the better. I believe Gina did a post about law abiding good people being given to activism as a civic duty.I see alot of people here trying to pretend that so called "good" black men are not also participating in the coddling of criminal black men.IMHO if the "good" black man has not been some sort of an activist and have not tried to participate in helping to curb the crime they are coddling the criminals too.
Plenty of blame to go around.
@ Reese
"Some of these men are not criminals per se but are either sympathetic to criminal behavior, a “reformed” criminal or one step away from committing a crime themselves."
This statement supports the notion that the men of these communites are at least tacitly involved in a common "enterprise"--as criminal sympathizers, former criminals, or about-to-be criminals.
"Just because some men still live in bad areas does not mean they automatically are condoning the crime that is happening there."
Well, of course not. And same goes for the women, since you brought it up. But that's not the point I was trying to make. I'm saying that if Aunt Peaches is harboring her criminal son and Mr. Jack across the street turns a blind eye (doesn't report or "snitch"), they're both culpable. Otherwise, he's part of the same criminal "enterprise" as outlined above. At the very least he's part of the problem.
Regarding the role of law enforcement, you're preaching to the choir. The police are my friend (literally and figuratively).
@ Economist:
I didn't make a leap of logic. I merely asked a question for clarity. Your posts seem to only implicate mothers and girlfriends as criminal enables. But if you are talking specifically about gang members and "safe" houses maintained by their women then, hell, those women are criminals, too, not enablers.
Truth P understood what I was getting at when s/he said:
"I see alot of people here trying to pretend that so called 'good' black men are not also participating in the coddling of criminal black men.IMHO if the 'good' black man has not been some sort of an activist and have not tried to participate in helping to curb the crime they are coddling the criminals too."
I see alot of excuses for why "good"black men are uninvolved in policing other black men.
Well at least we know that many black men fear eachother so therefore we can NEVER expect all black ghettos to EVER be a safe place for women and children.Ya see why I support divesting?Most of the "good" men will NOT risk their lives not even to save black children. It won't happen.Save yourselves ladies.Women cannot police men.Not even their own teenage sons.It's crazy to me that some people talk about men being afraid to do what's right without considering the women in those communities and how if many of them decided to live righteously there could be blood spill.
Oh yeah and I think i've got the best most twisted version of black women coddling criminals right here.Khadija @ sojournerspassport.com had this posted a while back and I couldn't believe it.
They marched on mother's day smdh
http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-7709-deborah-movement-to-tackle-city-violence.html
These women also declined the help of the national guard..(Join us on Monday, May 10, 2010 at 7:00 pm, at a meeting being convene by State Representative LaShawn Ford to tell him that we need jobs and resources more than we need the National Guard in Chicago)...
and at the same time put themselves in the forefront of some mess.For all I know male participation was asked but not considered a must have.
“These are our children dying,” said Porter-Ollarvia, who explained that finger-pointing as to who or what is the reason for the violence was not the group’s goal. “We just want to take full responsibility and accountability; galvanize, organize and strategize to save our people’s lives. … As women, we’re taking this into our hands because, you know, we’re the ones that are carrying all these babies.”
@Reese,
"Some of these men are not criminals per se but are either sympathetic to criminal behavior, a “reformed” criminal or one step away from committing a crime themselves."
So many false choices so little time. Indifference shouldnt imply any of the above. I think most of them are of the opinion that they arent going to take risks for anyone but themselves or their loved ones. Can you blame them?
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-news-cleveland-man-shot-pregnant-woman,0,4490338.story
http://www.examiner.com/x-34929-Manhattan-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m4d26-Homeless-man-killed-saving-woman
How many times has these nightly news programs shown how indifferent people are to crimes committed right in front of them? White Knighthood, (no pun intended for all the white men enthusiasts on this site) is becoming a thing of the past.
@Miki
"Truth P understood what I was getting at when s/he said:
'I see alot of people here trying to pretend that so called ‘good’ black men are not also participating in the coddling of criminal black men.IMHO if the ‘good’ black man has not been some sort of an activist and have not tried to participate in helping to curb the crime they are coddling the criminals too.' "
Again, thats a false choice. Most people arent willing to take such risks above and beyond what is absolutely necessary. From a longitudinal point of view, the real crime stoppers in the (black) community are married parents since that is what really curbs crime. Off topic.
@ The Economist
"Again, thats a false choice. Most people arent willing to take such risks above and beyond what is absolutely necessary. From a longitudinal point of view, the real crime stoppers in the (black) community are married parents since that is what really curbs crime. Off topic."
I completely disagree. It is not a false choice, it is the difference between living in a safe well functioning community and one that is accepting of the criminal element among them.
I have lived in both type of communities and believe me, when you live in a safe community where your neighbors are concerned about personal safety, they STAY on the line to the police. Believe me I have seen any little disturbance and my former neighbors where on the line to the cops, be they black or white.
When you have ownership and participate in the building of a community, you are concerned about maintaining it. Every community needs its nosey, annoying detail oriented gate keepers.
On the other hand, I now live in Harlem, where you could keep a Bengal tiger and alligators in your apartment and your neighbors wouldn't call the cops because "we don't snitch up in here" and "we don't want to bring another BM down" as neighbors said.
@TruthP
What is this "so-called" thing? A man is either a good man or he is not a good man. His actions define that not other people's opinions of his actions.
"IMHO if the ‘good’ black man has not been some sort of an activist and have not tried to participate in helping to curb the crime they are coddling the criminals too.”"
What do you mean by activism? Like Al Sharpton activist? Because I beg to differ.
I am only speaking on this because I live in an area in Los Angeles which has a lot of different types of men co-habitating. Some are family men with wives and kids, some are single men just doing their thing (not illegal things just living their lives) and others are obvious drains on society. This happens in a lot of black areas because women who receive subsidized housing often allow noncontributing men to live with them. These men would have nowhere to go if it weren't for some woman taking them in. Single men with their own places tend to be much more strict about who they allow in their house. After all they are usually trying to impress women. So essentially working men who are trying to provide are sharing a space with men who are leeches. Not saying all women who get gov't help are participating in this behavior but there is a pattern. If the working class men who are trying to "do right" by their families have to choose between being alive and able to walk down the street versus turning in Pookie from across the street - I know which one I'd want my husband to pick.
Most men want to live and they do not want to get caught up in some foolishness that would put their lives at risk unless it is to protect the vulnerable in their immediate circle. Like someone above said, the biggest threat to the safety of black men are other black men. It just doesn't make sense that all these black men are trying to protect men that would kill them in a second. Not to mention the drag on their reputations that black male criminals bring as well. Unless we're saying that the majority of black men don't value their safety, lives or reputations (which some of you have argued is the case) something else is at play here.
And the only way you can stop crime is by having in-tact families raising children. Anything short of that is not going to work.
@ The Economist, @ Reese...
"Black men do not coddle black male criminals. " - Rev. Al, Jesse J., Michael Dyson, the City of Detroit, etc.. would strongly dissent. That's how they get PAID.
"In my opinion it is law enforcement’s job to hunt, find and arrest criminals with the cooperation of all residents. It’s not the job of the men in the neighborhood to handle violent criminals. That’s an unrealistic expectation. " - Why are you calling these dudes men? MEN tend to stand up for the safety of their communities. Usually early on BEFORE it descends into violent chaos.
"Black men have far more to loose than black women." - Why are you on this site again?
"From a longitudinal point of view, the real crime stoppers in the (black) community are married parents since that is what really curbs crime." - Again, where are the MEN at in this equation???
Ya'll talked a WHOLE lot about how momma/auntie/cousin/girlfriend/ (notice not one mention of a WIFE but I digress) doing all of the drama... but I couldn't HELP but notice that the presumption was that the FATHER ain't around. And it is still Momma's fault, and black men are the real targets b/c for every Dunbar, there are Derrions? SERIOUSLY??? Why are you on this site? Eye-roll to the sky. Puh-LEASE keep being this obvious in how the main people you are concerned about are MEN on a blog called What About Our Daughters.
Welp imma say this and i'm gonna let it go.I am not asking anybody to go toe to toe with criminals.
I have my teenage brother in a program with black and white men who are helping to steer him in the right direction because I can't because i'm a woman.Black men don't have to go toe to toe with criminals but WHY are they NOT getting involved in organizations to help black boys and men?At least not as many of them that can.I think it's sad that so many black WOMEN seem to be more concerned about the wayward youth then these "good" black men.These good black men are not showing up in great numbers at any of the anti violence protests where I live.There's always 1200 black women to 1 black man in these protests(where I live).On a national level when I look at the news all I see is more black women protesting fighting organizing to stop crime.From where I stand most "good" black men are not fighting to stop anything many of them have divested and are not going to save nobody except themselves.I think it's sad that it's more likely for a black women who makes something of her self to put her life in danger by trying to save other non related to her black folks and frankly I think they need to stop.
@Truth P
Good intentions aside, those programs don't work. All these do-gooders and volunteers are trying to close the stable door long after the horse has bolted.
Besides, that isnt the way men function. Those organizations are little more than daycare and youth monitoring.
"I think it’s sad that it’s more likely for a black women who makes something of her self to put her life in danger by trying to save other non related to her black folks and frankly I think they need to stop."
This is ideology not reality.
@The economist I hope those programs work my brother is in one.He's doing great btw,good grades good attitude etc.No disrespect but Please don't be a "Darnell downer".
I strongly disagree about that too.We have men in our church program that go out and try to encourage the youth.We have young men who come in our church triflin and they make a change.They get a legal real 9-5 and marry their baby momma's and get counseling in areas they need it in other places than our church.Church is an organization and a community that does help people depending on which one you go to.One of our deacons was formerly in a gang at 14,never killed anybody he says.He is an upstanding family man now who tries to uplift other men but he actually has put his life at risk doing it by going into some tougher areas with the people who need to be reached but men like the deacon are few where I live especially in comparison with the black women who are putting there lives at risk.That aint ideology it's the truth.
And......to bring it back to black women and children, I wonder how the Dunbar Village woman and her son are doing? Do they feel a sense of justice about this young male being arrested, since he was never apprehended for the rape?
I have no idea how I'd deal with the emotional and psychological fallout of what they endured. Even though (some) of the rapists are convicted, life still goes on. I can't say their lives are ruined, as perhaps they are doing better every day, but I can only imagine what it takes to rebuild a life afterwards.
Economist, just because it's not a choice you would make doesn't mean it's a false choice. Living in a safe community (not to mention preserving my property values) means enough to me to snitch. Because I refuse to be held hostage in my own community.
But I understand what you're saying. We have one life. Why waste it on some criminals and their enablers? I don't live around them. And if I discover any of 'em, I'm telling. And that's just for starters.
@Truth P.
The existence of these programs makes people feel a sense of entitlement from others. Anytime I criticize the dystopia someone is always asking, "Well what have you done?" Are people entitled to my time? My husbands time? We have a family of our own and our ONLY moral obligation is to see them straight. Now if enough parents were of the same mind, the men in your church program will be out playing golf and enjoying their life instead of cleaning up spilt milk. Besides the children in need of intervention deserve more than some stranger spending time with them every other weekend. Thats not parenting.
@The economist Well I have to say I agree to disagree with you on this issue.I still have moral obligations to other folks.Heck i'm helping to raise children I didn't bear.Is it fair NOPE! As far as living life playing golf.The small number of good black men I know live happy and well.They don't spend (all) their time trying to help people and they don't try to save (everybody) and their own children and wives are doing just swell.
I respect your ability to have an opinion but from your conversation you seem to have excuse after excuse for black men who fail horribly at teaching, protecting, and providing for their own children.You blame the mother/grandma/sister/girlfriend/babymomma and anybody else with the xx chromosome.Then you don't seem to be concerned with anybody helping black boys through adoption,fostercare,and mentor programs or anything else.Which is just another excuse for why black men such as your husband are not doing anything to help save these boys.I cannot believe that we are on a site titled whataboutourdaughters ran by a lady of a certain class, who I believe is single with no children, talking about what folks aint obligated to do.WHY ARE YOU HERE THEN?Aint none of us here obligated to care about some black girl or woman whom we don't know that has been beaten,molested/raped,murdered or involves herself in some shameful activity.I can't do it i'm done.
@Truth P
You know you can put the script down now. We arent talking about what obligations fathers have to their own children. We are talking about obligations you feel they have to other peoples' children. Slight difference.
My husband comes from a culture where the family is the safety net not do-gooders in the community. Please dont try to guilt him into obligating himself to people he made no promises to.
Youre a bit like a welfare recipient threatening society with your hungry children if we dont feed them. Goodness.
I think black people need a frontier mentality. Everyone kinda takes care of their own and when enough people do that, on the micro level, the macro starts to look better.
As an aside, the United Kingdom is a failed experiment of the community trying to do for everyone.
@Daily-Lattes
I missed your post. Better late than never I suppose.
"Rev. Al, Jesse J., Michael Dyson, the City of Detroit, etc.. would strongly dissent. That’s how they get PAID."
We are talking about the aggregate not segments. Small segments.
"Why are you calling these dudes men? MEN tend to stand up for the safety of their communities. Usually early on BEFORE it descends into violent chaos."
Thats completely false. The safest neighborhoods are those, not with vigilantes on the prowl, but those that have strong two parent family structures and maybe even high incomes.
Also, in your perfect community scenario, who would these men be standing up to besides other men in the community? Transient men who have been invited by none other than... Its why people have a reluctance to allow section 8 housing into their area. While section 8 is for manless-women and her dependent children, a man always seems to find his way in the home.
"“From a longitudinal point of view, the real crime stoppers in the (black) community are married parents since that is what really curbs crime.” – Again, where are the MEN at in this equation???"
We cant force people into marriage. This isnt the Middle East after all. Some people choose freedom without virtue. Cant really do anything about that.
"Ya’ll talked a WHOLE lot about how momma/auntie/cousin/girlfriend/ (notice not one mention of a WIFE but I digress)..."
Again, we cant force anyone to becomes someone's wife especially when she isnt interested.
"...doing all of the drama…"
Nice caricature
"...but I couldn’t HELP but notice that the presumption was that the FATHER ain’t around."
Actually that is the assumption you made. What does a father being present have to do with adult women deciding to side with criminal relatives and love interests over a police investigation? What happened to her agency?
Yes, this is a site entitled "What About Our Daughters?" to the extent that "Our Daughters" are only victims and have no agency whatsoever and are victims of circumstances always beyond their control.
You should read Theodore Dalrymple. It talks about this type of value system and how it creates and sustains the under class which has to exist in order for things like this brutal rape and assault can occur.
"And it is still Momma’s fault, and black men are the real targets b/c for every Dunbar, there are Derrions?"
Its a statement of fact as to the reluctance of black men to white knight above and beyond what is expected. He takes serious risk do to so. The same risk you rely on so "Our Daughters" can be safe.
"Puh-LEASE keep being this obvious in how the main people you are concerned about are MEN on a blog called What About Our Daughters."
Judging by your post, I doubt you are too concerned if we only concerned ourselves with men, on this blog, so long as they are portrayed solely as the boogey men under our beds.
I see you really did miss my post, along with reading comprehension as well.
"Judging by your post, I doubt you are too concerned if we only concerned ourselves with men, on this blog, so long as they are portrayed solely as the boogey men under our beds." - This post is about a CRIMINAL!!!! About how a CRIMINAL has been caught. About how a CRIMINAL is about to finally do some time for his crime. So YES, this is about the "boogey man under the bed". And if "Our Daughters" were so safe, this site PROLLY wouldn't be necessary! (seriously, thank you Gina for all that you do).
"What does a father being present have to do with adult women deciding to side with criminal relatives and love interests over a police investigation?" - If you have to ask that... you need to wonder why. That is BASIC home training 101.
"The safest neighborhoods are those, not with vigilantes on the prowl," - Who said vigilantes? Most MEN won't let it get to that point. Point Blank.
I'm going to reiterate what has been said by other commenters before (and not necessarily to you), if MEN are such a concern for you, why do you need to defend them on a site called What About Our Daughters? Why are you deflecting the responsibilty of MEN to police their communities on a site called What About Our Daughters? As far as book suggestions and "realizing" things, can't you do that at Vibe or something? They could really use some advice right now.
First of all economist I aint even got no kids I've got siblings.When I do have children trust the gumment won't be taking care of them.Secondly aint nobody tryin to guilt you do nothin type people into doin anything but why come HERE to complain if YOU and your huzzzben will be doin nothing?No welfare for me either.You can drop the script because alot of this would not be going on if the fathers were "good" black men and were there for their children but they are not.Now If you and your huzzben don't feel it necessary to do ish about what's going on stop complaining and just go and live your lives.I was lead to believe that this was a forum to get people to act not to make weak excuses exonerating (guilty) parties in the process,complain, and be complacent.
@Daily Lattes
Apparently men are a huge concern for you since they apparently form in integral part of a safe neighborhood for black women and black girls. They arent chattel. Therefore if they are a huge part of the equation, we need to talk about what their role is and not simply as fodder to keep you and yours comfortable. We need long term solutions. Everything you are talking about is short term and designed to illicit guilt and shame from black men than it is to really discuss how our neighborhoods can be safer for its inhabitants.
Father doesnt mean husband.
As I said. Men dont police their communities. Do you think that is what makes white and Asian neighborhoods safe? No. Men police their homes. Get enough of those homes and you end up with safe community. Simple.
Solutions not vendettas.
There is no need to be rude and defensive.
@Truth P,
I know its frustrating to defend the incoherent. I'm forgiving, however.
"You can drop the script because alot of this would not be going on if the fathers were “good” black men and were there for their children but they are not."
The above is very vague. What do you mean by black men being their for their children? Anything less than residential husband/fatherhood is inconsequential according to some researchers.
@ The Economist.
Incorrect! In middle class suburban neighborhoods, residents DO police their neighborhoods. You must not have heard of home owners associations.
There is generally no need for "armed" vigilantes in wealthier areas, but the reason many safe communities are indeed safe is that those people living there are active in their own policing. They look out for each other, call the cops at a drop of the hat.
Ask Professor Gates! It seems he was looking a bit suspect on his own front porch.
Both men and women actively ring the cops in middle class neighborhoods, but I would say men ring up more as they are mostly footing the mortgage bill...and it is all about protecting property and family and maintaining property values.
In suburban middle class neighborhoods there isn't the violence or gun play one might find in more dysfunctional urban areas, so WM or AM would not have the same fear of death or bodily harm policing one's community, you seem to be alluding to that would be present in a BC.
Yet in tougher white areas...say like Bay Ridge or Bensonhurst there is a horrid and sad history of young white thugs "policing" the neighborhood in an aggressive and violent way. BM have been killed for just passing through. These working class or poor whites would not call the cops the same way their black counterparts may not, but they still keep the communities safe their own way.
Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst have become more diverse in recent years though.
But you can bet the 80 year Italian grandma can safely shuffle to the corner deli at 9pm at night to get a bottle of milk and espresso beans for her morning coffee.
@Economist,
Why are you so defensive about Black men? You sound like the "nothing but a black man" types that Evia talks about on her blog.
Have you never heard of "Neighborhood Watch"?
What are Black men for? What do you believe they should be doing to make their communities better? Or do you think that somehow Black women and children are solely responsible for the condition of Black communities?
Somehow Black men always get off the hook, eh?
@Knock Out Chick
Home Owners Association? Give me a break. You obviously dont know function of that organization.
@Patricia Kayden
Neighorbood Watch started in 1982. Yeah, that worked out great.
Black men are there to protect their families not to be social workers or safety nets for a bunch of broken homes that produce problem children. Its quite simple really.
If you want to make communities better you have to have two parent homes and possibly higher incomes. Thats the ONLY thing that will work in the long run. Wayward children dont come from intact homes. Higher income, more home ownership etc. etc. All the things that constitute a safe neighborhood.
Truth is a casualty here innit?
"You sound like the “nothing but a black man” types that Evia talks about on her blog."
Will Evia's husband be apart of the neighborhood watch?
Besides if black men are the source of your problems dont turn around and demand they be the source of all your solutions. Again your anger is about shaming black men not making a safe place for black women and their children.
@ The Economist
Call it what you like, but I have spent a lot of time in a functioning safe community, so I do know how they work.
"Black men are there to protect their families not to be social workers or safety nets for a bunch of broken homes that produce problem children. Its quite simple really."
I can agree with you championing marriage, yet the MAJORITY of the BC is not married. The majority of BM have no desire or motivation to marry, yet they live in communities and one would hope that they have some concern for the homes and communities in which they live.
But I think what you have described is more accurate. Hard working BM maybe overwhelmed and say..."that's not my problem" "I can't be bothered". You are speaking the truth on that. There is an overall feeling in the urban BC, that everyone is an individual without any responsibility for his neighbor or those like them. You are on your own.
"If you want to make communities better you have to have two parent homes and possibly higher incomes. Thats the ONLY thing that will work in the long run."
Wow, that's genius! Since we are in a recession where highly educated WM have difficulty finding employment, where do think these higher incomes will come from for BM? Call the Fed right away with your solution.
What about simply caring about where you live?
The last few comments you answered where not my words...so I don't know what you are talking about.
Bizarre comments about "anger at BM", does it always have to be broken down that way. I am simply talking about why our communities, BC are not as safe as many others.
If your position is that progressive BM are not responsible for the communites they live in, because they are overrun with dysfunction and it is too much of a burden for them...then so be it.
I guess that is why the job is always left to the "guv'ment" and those kinda hearted charitable white folks.