War On Professional Black Women Part III: Atlanta, GA-Black Marital Mogadishu

By matrimonial accounts, Atlanta GA is a failed state. When it comes to marriage for Black women apparently LOVE IS A BATTLEFIELD. The Black male to female ratio thrown so out of balance that he city has apparently become overrun with men who are unwilling to enter into long-term relationships due to the infinite availability of sex partners. Because apparently, only WOMEN benefit from stable relationships.

We want to thank GYANT of Gyant Unplugged for being completely candid about the state of gender interaction in Atlanta, GA which might as well be called the  Mogadishu of Black Matrimony!

As a single black man myself, I can understand both sides of the coin.
Black men don’t want to settle down when they’re in a city that reveres them most. A mildly successful African-American male, with a semi decent automobile and a barely there personality could have hundreds of African-American women lined up willing to do whatever they have to land him. And in my efforts to keep it real, I gotta admit that in Atlanta you don’t even have to have that to get at least 10 females lined up. I know quite a few brutha’s who use public transportation to get to the nightclubs, yet miraculously still have a cell phone full of female contacts who are all vying for attention. Hey, I’m speaking truth here folks. Gyant Unplugged.

Thank you for that dispatch from Marital Mogadishu Gyant!  These women never stop to question what would happen if PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN appeased THE REGIME which apparently is not calling the shots in Atlanta.? Does THE REGIME have the Black community's best interest at heart? Look around. Has THE REGIME produced anything positive? Is it preferable or OPTIMAL for PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN to substitute THE REGIME'S wants wishes and desires for their own?

What surprises me about this video of highly intelligent Black women is their willingness to question themselves, but not the game itself.  They never question the rules of the game they are playing. They never ask why their only choices are appeasement and death.

Why am I paying any attention to this? Because this "Nobody Wants to Marry Professional Black Women" is one of the greatest weapons of mass destruction aimed at our community. The group of purveyors of desperation gloom and doom grows daily. Like a fungus, aided in part by a infinite list of Black women who want to chat with the Washington Post, Nightline, Oprah, and Steve Harvey. ESSENCE is selling magazines on the back of your desperation. Steve Harvey is selling books on the back of your desperation. And what's worse, the future of free Black women everywhere depends on how our generation responds to this full frontal assault on PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN.

I have intentionally written PROFESSIONAL in caps because apparently some people are under the erroneous assumption that we should hide our accomplishments. As if there is some Accomplishment Fairy that flies around sprinkling pixie dust and all of a sudden degrees, houses, cars, vacations fall into the laps of PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN. We didn't EARN any of this stuff. We didn't SACRIFICE anything. We didn't have to DELAY GRATIFICATION. We didn't have to navigate the very same RACIAL BRIAR PATCH every other Black person had to navigate. We don't have to walk tight ropes between two worlds. Uh Uh. The path has been made bare, cleared in advance for the PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMAN. No the real challenges, the real struggle only happens in THE STREETS. The PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMAN lives on easy street.

Well I'm not having it!

Black women, there is NOTHING wrong with you. Nothing at all. I look forward to a conversation about how we move forward this year to push back forcefully against the WARLORDS of Marital Mogadishu. Life is what's happening while you're miserably waiting.

This concludes our first series of the year. This video from Nightline made the rounds while I was on blogcation and it irritated me because A) its unoriginal B) it apparently was produced by a Black women who should know better and C) I know y'all didn't just appoint the THRICE married Steve Harvey as somebody's relationship expert. Yes, I read his GOD AWFUL and patronizing "Act Like a Lady Think Like a Man." He shouldn't be allowed to give advice on how to cross the street let alone how to find a mate. Recognize this mess as what it is, propaganda and then ask yourself why they keep pushing this message.

OFFICIAL COMMENT TROLL WELCOME

I welcome the trolls that will find this post irresistible. Despite knowing your comments will never see the light of day, you will post them anyway in some deluded attempt to have your voice heard. If a comment gets sent to the spam filter automatically, did it ever exist?  NOPE, but that won't stop you from leaving some anti-Black woman screed anyway. So, my trigger finger is ready, the BLACK LIST has been expanded to include a space for each and every one of you. Welcome trolls!  I go by gem2001 and I have been sent here to thrust you back into the abyss and love every minute of it.

Comments

[blkchik]

So it was produced by a BW not shocking, everyone is trying to hold on to their jobs.

[blkchik]

At the end of the day, we don't know these women. They provided nothing about their personalities. All we know was that they were good looking and academically smart.

[conservativeblkwoman]

Gina~The problem is not these "women". The problem is a culture that doesn't value marriage. Black people are culturally ill -- a virus has infested the psyches of both men and women. Steve Harvey (Buffoon of the highest order) book entitled "Act Like A Lady, think like a man" gives some indication of how sick we have really become if we buy into the idea that as women we need to "think" like a man. What??? Why would I want to think like them (purposely not man bashing here but feel free to infer my sentiment) I don't believe enough mothers are raising their sons to value, honor and love women. In fact, my "mother-in-law" seems to view me as competition and it seems that she despises the fact that her son loves me (or would love any woman other than her). Unfortunately this is all too common. Vulnerability is seen as a sign of weakness and loving and giving yourself unconditionally to another is not a sign of a "strong" black man or woman. It's so sad and until our collective paradigm shifts black matrimony will continue to decline for both the professional and non-professional.

[Karen R.]

@conservativeblkwoman

I couldn't agree with you more that we have a culture that doesn't seem to value or encourage marriage. It seems that marriage is seen as a stumbling block for a black man to achieve his goals. For example, I went to a predominately white public university in Michigan. Many of my white women friends were married right out of college. This was encouraged by their parents so that they could come together and work together to achieve their goals. Their parents offered support to these unions!!!
In the black community marriage is delayed. College-educated black men are encouraged by their families to wait, get themselves established, etc. , etc. For a black woman who desired to be married to an educated black man, her game and her resume had to be ON POINT and it seems that the bar was constantly raised to the point that an educated black man could continue to be more and more selective. This phenomenon is what we see in Atlanta.

My point is that marriage as an institution is not valued or prized in certain communities and constructs. My advice for PROFESSIONAL BW is don't beat yourself up, don't apologize for your success and open your options without lowering your standards. Salsa classes, anyone? Or Gun safety or CCW classes? Hey! ;-)

[RevMamaAfrika]

hummm-mm, what I find most interesting about this discussion, for the men who disagree with us, while they may not like us "strong, confident, well-educated, attractive, active, intelligent" sisters because they consciously or unconsciously view us as "uppity" or "stuck up", the funny thing is the very qualities that they despise in us, they in turn raise their daugthers to be the same way so that no man will mistreat their "daddy's little girl." Nothing wrong with that, but I just fine it so dam interesting! Nothing like being the father of a daugther(s) to make a brother a "feminist", huh? :) :) :)

[Khadija]

There won't be any collective solution to Black Marital Mogadishu because 50% of the participants required for any Black marriage---BM---benefit from the Black Marital Mogadishu status quo. BM generally LIKE things. Just. The. Way. They. Are. Right. Now.

Even though there won't be mass solutions, there can be solutions for individual BW. Another commenter mentioned them in part 2 (if I remember correctly, it was Knockoutchick):

(1) Move to an area where the numerical gender disparities aren't so lopsided; and/or

(2) Date IR;

I would add: (3) focus on dating non-AA Black men (for those BW who must have a BM).

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

[tusk91]

#5 Some BM do not like the way things are in the BC. In fact there are actually some that work to alleviate many of these very ills...

I have even read a story once where some colleges and universities were working to solve some of the disparities of BM. Working to solve things like BM not, attending college, or BM dropping out of high school, or BM being a burden or parasite to the community.

But, there are plenty other institutions as well that are active in that fight as well.

Don't think it is fair and accurate to say that "BM—benefit from the Black Marital Mogadishu status quo." so there will never be a collective solution, because some BM don't think of it in those terms.

[Bee]

I still agree with Gina that there is some sort of conspiracy of at least a large group of people jumping for joy as this continues. See, I think it is multi-fold (I know this blog only deals with the female aspect but I think it is really aimed at all of our race).

First, like I've said a large number of BM have checked out and decided that they can't make it in life and settle for the bottom rung. They are no longer prime marriage or father material and if they do reproduce they will likely contribute to the disfunction we see now by either not being around or even being there and acting a fool.

Next BW are caught. Like someone said earlier. We're told its bad not to be educated but now we're being told to be edcuated will leave you alone to die and be eaten by your cats. So some BW will opt not to reach for anything higher in a false attempt not to become the supposed out-of-reach, brutha hating, man bashing B.

Third we have this myth out there that the professional BW is not desirable. She's cold, she's stuck up, she has unrealistic expectations. If she believes that and if others belive it it will become self-fulfilling. If we internalize enough self-doubt we will become desperate neurotic women and, no, no one will even want to be around you and you also will eventually not even be successful anymore.

Last we come full circle to the BMW (black man working) who thinks he's the new prize. Like Gina alluded to a stable long-term relationship is not just for the benefit of the woman. So society has no problem letting this small wave of BM have their little titles and incomes if they are not going to be insightful enough to marry and pass their new-found wealth and wisdom onto the next generation. All they have will die with them. And they are hoping the same thing for the professional BW as well.

[blkchik]

Aren't all black professional black people accused of being stuck up? Thats just the anti intellectualism that permeates our culture.

[bogart4017]

To Steve Harvey: If i want my mate to think like a man i will marry a man, ok? As long as we support this nonsense Mr. Harvey will continue to make us feel bad about ourselves. Oh you mighty race, lift yourself up.

[Monica]

I think this was a great series.

I think the next step would be to present profiles of single or childfree black women who are leading fantabulous lives.

[Reese]

@tusk91

Black men may be working on the things you mntioned but they have NO PROBLEM with black WOMEN being shut out of their dating pool. I believe this is what Khadijah is referring to.

They like the fact that BW are jumping through hoops to gain the FAKE affections of the majority of "single" and "eligble" black males. They like the fact that BW have propped them up SO MUCH that they are now an elusive prize. BW have elevated the "stock" of BM to the point that non-BW also want in on it. This is no accident. This is deliberate.

So in terms of marriage and dating, BM do not want ANYTHING to change. Sure, they come up against some reputation issues that may affect their abilities from time to time but for the most part they are doing just fine.

The one thing they seem to not be interested in changing is their view of BW.

[random]

The storyline about lonely, educated black women really picked up steam several years ago when Oprah did a full show on this issue. The white media immediately followed Oprah's lead and what followed was a slew of media reports lamenting the plight of successful black women. I believe that was the beginning.

[Monica]

Alone does always mean lonely.

[Bee]

I would still just once like to see the issue presented as 'Why are so many black men not marriage material thus leaving some of their communities most desirable women unattached"
Then you could have a whole series of things black men need to do to catch up with these wonderful sisters before they get away from them.

[Reese]

I'd also just like to say that any BW who has spent time with other races in intimate, non-work situations knows that ALL types of people get married.

Marriage is for EVERYONE (at least technically everyone over age and heteroseuxal - for now) not just for women who are "attractive", "nice", "drama-free", etc. I have friends who have incredibly LARGE personalities and high expectations and guess what - they are ALL married.

Marriage is about two individuals coming together - not a certain type of individual. All types of people get married from all class levels. The black community has decided that only "Huxtable" type of blacks should be getting married which means that if a Claire hasn't found her Cliff, or vice versa, folks don't deserve to be married. Plenty of non-educated, working class whites get married. They realize that is really the only shot their children have at a decent future. Combining resources! But in the BC we don't have those types of values.

I also think that the marriage issue plagues the BC more because we have such high OOW birth rates. So the thinking is that BW are not only NOt getting married but we are still producing children. Of course, the OOW birth rate is at it lowest point in years but the birthrate among MARRIED BW is incredibly low. So I think that we should be focusing on why a)BW who want to get married are having a hard time doing so and b) of the BW who are married why are they having so few children.

I will venture to say that the answers to both those questions lie within the type of men these women are choosing to date and are married to.

[tusk91]

There maybe lots of professional BM out there that enjoy that there stock has risen and they take advantage of that fact.

But, trust me BM have "always believed" there stock has been high enough that non-BW want them. This is not a new concept at all.

I personally know a lot of BM that complain that they can not find or get any quality BW. In fact they are there preference, there first choice. Something to do with them haven been raised by a BW I think.

Now, admittedly of "some" BM I know do indeed get caught up into that type of thinking but, with maturity comes wisdom.

Also what helps to change some of that thinking with BM, is RevMamaAfrika's point of only wanting the best for there daughters, once they are of dating age.

[12xu]

"I personally know a lot of BM that complain that they can not find or get any quality BW. In fact they are there preference, there first choice. Something to do with them haven been raised by a BW I think."

What a joke! In many cities black women outnumber black men by 4 to 1! Black women outnumber men in college; there are more black women in the work force as well. Black women are also among the least likely to date outside the race; yet, these guys can't find a "suitable" black woman? What they really mean is that they are holding out for a Beyonce or Halle Berry look alike.

[blkchik]

How come no one ever talks about the impact of race and capitalism on the entire black race. Yes thats the men and the women. Black unemployment is very high, an unemployed man is not going to take on a wife. Men know by not being married they can send their baby momma to whatever gov't program to get childcare, housing and food. Thats why the birth rate for unmarried women is more than married women. If you had to pay hundreds of dollars a week for day care you would think twice before having too many kids too

[Mari-Djata]

Why is marriage such a big deal? Why is a woman's worth summed up by the man by her side and a ring on her finger? I can have a Ph.D., a J.D., and be a part time surgeon, but that won't mean a damn thing if I am not married (and of course this marriage would have to be with a man...).

Educated professional Black women are shooting themselves in the foot for accepting the ideals of the normal, so-called "correct" relationship of marriage and childbearing/rearing. Instead of accepting the rule of acceptable woman law, why not recreate the norm and acceptability of relationship-building. Black men know their value and learned to manipulate professional women as a result. It will take until Black women find out their value for the playfield of love to be leveled (of course, speaking from a strictly heteronormative standpoint as if all professional Black women want/need a man).

[watdoino]

Based on the commentary, the show did its job. We're arguing about who is at fault for the BW marriage shortage, when the real issue is why do we continue to jump (at each other) whenever the media out of its abundant concern for black folks decides to highlight "our problems."

Honestly, even if every PBW was married to a PBM, the media would still find some self inflicted pathological problem to raise the alarm about--whether it be down low-ism; low birth rates; obesisty; aids rate; out of wedlock births; educational achievement gaps; hair issues, etc. Marriage is just the "Black people can never get it right" issue du jour. The moral to all these news stories is (1) black women you suck and (2) you create men who suck even more.

As a black man with a black wife, mother ,aunts, etc (and a son on the way), I appreciate Gina's writing and efforts to take our focus beyond the marriage issue and place it on the bigger and continuous war on our image.

[Melanie]

I love how some people comment here about the BM who don't like the condition of the BC either etc...we are talking about the majority and trends here..not the exception..the few BM who care about the state of BM and are trying to do something. Instead of actually addressing the problems we are trying to confront some try to throw the focus off of the real problem. Anyway, I also love how the 'quality' BM can NEVER find a quality bw to marry. As 12xu stated bw are better on every scale than bm and in large numbers. These men want a sucessful woman and don't want all the things that come with that....like having an opinion, not being a yes woman, and being able to take care of oneself. There are many more traits that PBW or any PW would have. BM egos are so fragile that they, in general, need an ego boost from the women constantly. Instead I chose to marry a man who didn't need constant ego massages. I am a very supportive wife and listen to my husband's complaints and issues like a good spouse should, but he is very secure and doesn't need me to feel like a man. I think the lack of PBW's willingness to pretend that the PBM is the end all be all is what these BM are complaining about. They know they lack as a group so they want to be worshipped to compensate. They want us to act as though we should be lucky to have him since there are so few. If you as the woman don't show that appreciation/amazement then you are not one of the good quality ones worthy of marriage.

[Reese]

"Men know by not being married they can send their baby momma to whatever gov’t program to get childcare, housing and food. "

Sorry, that is a sick way for a man to "think". You won't marry someone because you have no means to contribute to their life or the life of the child you created so you rely on others to do what you are supposed to be doing? Capitalism has no role in the disappearance of the black family. Men with far fewer opportunities found a way to "make it work".

"Thats why the birth rate for unmarried women is more than married women. If you had to pay hundreds of dollars a week for day care you would think twice before having too many kids too."

This is only true for black women. Unmarried women of other races are not going around having babies at alarmingly high rates. Also, not all women pay hundreds of dollars a week for daycare. Some women stay home with their children while their husbands provide a decent standard of living. And in this "new economy" some men are doing that too. Outside childcare should not be a requirement for having a family.

The bigger question should be what role does child-rearing have in the BC? How do the men of said community view children and the women who bear them? I would say that based on the numbers a certain segment of black woman (unmarried, uneducated, poor) is "holding up" the numbers of the entire community through childbirth. If unmarried BW stopped having children then we'd see a huge drop in our numbers. Also, the products of said unmarried relationships are filling the prisons, hospitals, and schools as well as the NBA, NFL and billboard charts. Unmarried BW and their children ARE the BC. Unmarried BW are the only women producing children - some of them go on to greatness, some of them don't. So I really think that we all have relied on "other" women to do the hard work of keeping our numbers up while simultaneously blasting them for not being married or picking bad mates.

Married black folks are skating by with less than one child per couple. A community cannot survive on that either.

[tusk91]

#22 "BM egos are so fragile that they, in general, need an ego boost from the women constantly. Instead I chose to marry a man who didn’t need constant ego massages."

- I would seriously doubt that you would know anything at all about a BM on any level. Other than being you being completely obsessed with the fact that you are "not" with one.

#18 "What they really mean is that they are holding out for a Beyonce or Halle Berry look alike."

- This is certainly the case sometimes but, not always. To be honest in some cases it is just BM having unrealistic expectations.

[Amelia]

@12xu

"In many cities black women outnumber black men by 4 to 1! Black women outnumber men in college; there are more black women in the work force as well. Black women are also among the least likely to date outside the race; yet, these guys can’t find a “suitable” black woman? What they really mean is that they are holding out for a Beyonce or Halle Berry look alike."

Ding, Ding, Ding! Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner. It is mathematically impossible to for a BM to not find a BW to date/marry. Especially at HBCUs, cities like Atlanta, etc. These type of guys usually want "dymes", and that is where the problem comes in. Of course men across the board are visual, and it is only natural to want an attractive mate, but many BM have a VERY limited idea of what constitutes beauty. If you do not look like Beyonce, Halle, A. Keys, Rihanna, or some video vixen prepared to be ignored.

@Reese

"Marriage is for EVERYONE (at least technically everyone over age and heteroseuxal – for now) not just for women who are “attractive”, “nice”, “drama-free”, etc. I have friends who have incredibly LARGE personalities and high expectations and guess what – they are ALL married.

Marriage is about two individuals coming together – not a certain type of individual. All types of people get married from all class levels. The black community has decided that only “Huxtable” type of blacks should be getting married which means that if a Claire hasn’t found her Cliff, or vice versa, folks don’t deserve to be married. Plenty of non-educated, working class whites get married. They realize that is really the only shot their children have at a decent future. Combining resources! But in the BC we don’t have those types of values."

This is so on point. Somehow in the BC marriage has become some kind of "reward" BW that the BC has deemed worthy. Apparently if a woman is poor, uneducated, overeducated, unattractive, non-Christian, free-thinking, too independent, etc. Then she is deemed by the BC to be "not wifey material". Where did we get this notion that only the "Claire Huxtable" type of BW is worthy of marriage? Whites, Latinos, Asians, Africans, and other groups of all walks of life get married-regardless of looks, status, socioeconomic class or personality quirks. Why are BW subject to all this hoop jumping?

[tusk91]

#25 "If you do not look like Beyonce, Halle, A. Keys, Rihanna, or some video vixen prepared to be ignored."

- Good point, and I certainly have heard that from some younger BM myself.

....and yet you talk to almost any BM from the age 18 - 40 at some point in there life they have been in love with a BW. Although not all get married to that woman for various reasons both good and bad.

The point is that as superficial as BM can be at times, we are not genetically prone to not be able to love a BW. It happens every single day and certainly not only to BW who look like some some video vixen.

Just that sometimes we like any other man get in our own way.

[blkchik]

If you do not look like Beyonce, Halle, A. Keys, Rihanna, or some video vixen prepared to be ignored.

C'mon some of the women here have issues, if all men were sitting around waiting for these types there would be no children in the playground. There are all kinds of sistas that get married. The women in that video were gorgeous and not married. I know less attractive and heavier women who are married. Stop drinking the celebrity Kool Aid already jeez.

[Amelia]

@blkchik what I am referring to was the earlier comments about BM complaining about not finding a BW to date. These guys usually have a certain "preference". Then when the dyme in question does not reciprocate they become very angry and become a part of the "BW are shallow and only want thugs" camp. They can easily find another BW, but will complain that she is not his "type".

[lunanoire]

Let's be clear- a BM will wait to marry a Beyonce, Halle, A. Keys, etc. lookalike, but he will lay with a much broader spectrum of women. In reviewing Ebony magazine's February issue, almost all the BM photographed as part of a couple were darker than their mates. One exception was Essence Atkins, who is married to a HM. Despite what some people say, it's important to watch what they do.

A PBM may gain in certain ways by not marrying- having a stable of women to rotate, spending as he pleases, not having to compromise, etc. However there are losses as well from not being in a stable monogamous relationship- higher risk of STDs, child support payments to numerous women, less likely to get a transplant if needed b/c the children don't feel connected, higher risk of unhealthy behaviors that a health-minded mate would discourage (smoking, drinking, red meat, non exercise). Also, the kids lose out from not growing up in a 2 parent household. And the "black community" loses because marriage, home ownership, saving, cultivating contacts, education, and investments are pillars of creating and passing down intergenerational wealth. It doesn't work as well when papa is a rolling stone, like the James Brown postmortem paternity and inheritance disputes.

[tusk91]

#28 So BM only want to marry lighter skin woman with more European features? They are just fine with "laying up with a "much broader spectrum of women" but, prefer to not marry them?

This analyst was based on the February issue of Ebony magazine.

Soooooooooooo what of all of the BW who are more dark completion, or have more African features? I mean are they not getting married any longer?

I agree BM can be a bit superficial at times, and so can BW but, come on now.

[Reese]

"In reviewing Ebony magazine’s February issue, almost all the BM photographed as part of a couple were darker than their mates"

Bingo! I remember watching the "Geraldo" show years ago and he repeated a stat that is reflected in that Ebony issue: 65% of black men surveyed said they would NOT date/marry a woman who was darker than they were.

So , where does that leave darker-skinned black women? I guess according to some posters an OOW child is "proof" that black men value all types of BW. Puh-lease.

I am not saying that there aren't darker black women who are married to BM but let's be real. Flip through any black publication and look at the type of women "high Profile" black men repeatedly pick as wives. Men emulate the behaviors of POWERFUL, VISIBLE, FAMOUS men - not the brothers that are few and far between. Young black men want to be like the men they see other people admire. In turn they want women that look like the women on the arms of those powerful men.

It's not like a lot of black boys have the luxury of seeing a man love his mother day in and day out so he could maybe see the value in an "average" woman. No, he sees average women making the babies, populating the community. Carrying the burdens of two with the paycheck and soul of one.

[lisa99]

@#20
"Why is marriage such a big deal? Why is a woman’s worth summed up by the man by her side and a ring on her finger? I can have a Ph.D., a J.D., and be a part time surgeon, but that won’t mean a damn thing if I am not married (and of course this marriage would have to be with a man…).

Educated professional Black women are shooting themselves in the foot for accepting the ideals of the normal, so-called “correct” relationship of marriage and childbearing/rearing. Instead of accepting the rule of acceptable woman law, why not recreate the norm and acceptability of relationship-building. Black men know their value and learned to manipulate professional women as a result. It will take until Black women find out their value for the playfield of love to be leveled (of course, speaking from a strictly heteronormative standpoint as if all professional Black women want/need a man)."

While I agree that women are worth so much more than a ring (or lack of one) on their finger and should not be judged as "less than" because of their single status, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a black woman (or any woman) desiring a traditional marriage with a man.

The answer to this whole issue is NOT to criticize marriage and suggest alternatives that many people do not want. These women don't want that. They want to be married, have children and be wives. That is not necessarily conditioning, any more than it's alternative conditioning in the BC by many folks that marriage shouldn't matter.

I applaud the women who are happily single or who have found an alternative answer to marriage for their own lives. It is great that professional black women have these choices.

I also hope that all of the professional black women who desire traditional marriage and family ALSO are able to have that, and they should not have that desire questioned.

[lunanoire]

A BM may wait for a Beyonce, Halle, A. Keys, etc. look-alike to marry, but he will lay with a much broader spectrum of women.

Looking through the February issue of Essence, all but two of the couples featured in the entire magazine, including ads, showed a BM with a mate with a complexion lighter than his. Regardless of what people say, it's more important to pay attention to what they do.

It is unfortunate that many BM do not see the value of marriage- stability, support, children growing up in a 2 parent household, improved health because the mate will encourage healthy behavior to keep him around longer. Maybe single BM don't see the value of marriage because of the gender imbalance, the financial cost of divorce, and they don't live as long so there is less of a concern of finding someone to grow old with.

Also, the children will be more likely to give back and help out as adults. I pass by BM beggar on my way to work who tells me that his daughter is an attorney. I wonder why he's begging. Was he a father to her? Is she really selfish? Does he have a mental illness or addiction she is tired of dealing with?

Marriage is an important part of intergenerational wealth-building. That is why royals have such a small pool to choose from. There are over 1,000 legal benefits to marriage. That's why many gay people are fighting for marriage equality. A NYT article a while back echoed some earlier comments that marriage in the US is starting to be a function of socioeconomic class: middle class and wealthier couples are marrying, but working and lower class couples are not. Marriage is just a piece of paper? So is immigration status, and you see how worked up some people get over that issue.

Even if more black boys and men took advantage of educational and vocational opportunities, I have doubts that BW would automatically gain. After all, in communities such as China, where men outnumber women, wealthier men choose mail-order brides and some men kidnap village girls and young women. In the context of the US, BM might use the numerical imbalance as justification for an increased BM- nonBW rate.

[lunanoire]

Sorry for the double post. My computer acted up during the first post.

[lunanoire]

@ Reese- and though I don't have stats to back it up, I bet a high % of dark-skinned US BW married to BM have at least one feature close to that of a video girl's- long hair, narrower nose and/or lips, light eyes.

[tusk91]

#29 Bingo! I remember watching the “Geraldo” show years ago and he repeated a stat that is reflected in that Ebony issue: 65% of black men surveyed said they would NOT date/marry a woman who was darker than they were.

- I wounder what it would be for BW? I do think in some cases the BC is still a bit color struck.

#30 "I have doubts that BW would automatically gain. After all, in communities such as China, where men outnumber women, wealthier men choose mail-order brides and some men kidnap village girls and young women. In the context of the US, BM might use the numerical imbalance as justification for an increased BM- nonBW rate."

- Wow, I am just stunned, I mean just stunned if a lot of BW are believing this about BM. I mean just how contemptible are we considered.

[Vinindy]

‘Why are so many black men not marriage material thus leaving some of their communities most desirable women unattached”

Amen, Amen and can I get an Amen.

The story should be why are MAJORITY of black men are criminals, undereducated and live outside of mainstream. [Don't get mad at the messenger, take action to change the message] Because the MSM is afraid of being called a racist bigot by J. Jackson, Rev. Al, the NAACP et. al.

I fault "black" institutions for reason the MAJORITY of black men are as described above. As elders, they failed to teach the 2 generations behind them to be men.

[tusk91]

#37 The story should be why are MAJORITY of black men are criminals, undereducated and live outside of mainstream.

- I am sorry this is just a flat out lie about BM. There is a significant amount of BM in jail or on parole or do not have high school diplomas.

But, the majority of BM are high school graduates at least, have never been to jail, and are not on parole.

Maybe you can make one of those BM with a GED believe that but, try again(lol)..

[lunanoire]

#36 Yes, the BC is colorstruck. However, a woman's looks in the dating and mating arena are more heavily weighed than a man's looks.

Also, my point is that BW (P and non-P) who want to marry BM (P and non-P) have several obstacles, including 1. the numbers imbalance and 2. BM's ideas about what is considered a BW worthy of marriage. Even if #1 was erased tomorrow, as long as #2 exists in the sense of requiring a woman to be a 10 in the categories of looks (which is too-often based on a colorstruck system), cooking, cleaning, offering moral support, child-rearing, bedroom skills, etc., then there will still be BW who want to marry BM who are uninterested in them because they're not perfect. Women are people, not commodities. You can't order exactly what you want, even with mail-order brides. It's about finding Mr. or Mrs. Right-for-you.

As this is the US, not China, I think if #1 was eliminated, there would be more unmarried couples who live together, like other US communities where the men are not that interested in marriage.

[tusk91]

Crime:

Among 18- to 24-year-olds, more young black men are enrolled in college (and live either on campus or elsewhere) than are incarcerated.

In 2003, according to Justice Department figures, 193,000 black college-age men were in prison. While 532,000 black college-age men were attending college. Now, the number of young black men in prison is too high, however not as high as others would lead us to believe.

Link:
http://www.blackdemographics.com/Crime.html

Education:

89% of African Americans age 25 and older had at least a high school diploma in 2007.

Black Drop Outs by Gender
Percentage of Black high school dropouts 16 to 24

Year - 2006 Male 9.7 Female 11.7

Link:
http://www.blackdemographics.com/education.html

Employment:
Although African Americans have an unemployment rate almost double that of the overall population, the Black workforce is just as diverse. Because the federal government was one of the first to integrate, African Americans have been over represented in that sector. Black women have made the greatest strides recently. Today 31% of Employed Black women have jobs in management or professional occupations compared to just 22% of employed Black men.

Link:
http://www.blackdemographics.co/employment.html

Respectfully I know, this is about BW and the images being pro trade in these type of stories. Fair enough but, if someone thinks they can casually in 2010 give out false info with out it being easily challenged then they should think again.

[tusk91]

#39 "As this is the US, not China, I think if #1 was eliminated, there would be more unmarried couples who live together, like other US communities where the men are not that interested in marriage."

- Maybe you are right but, I personally think that you under estimate BW a bit. I think there would be more BM marrying these BW than you think due to them not wanting to risk loosing them.

[Reese]

"- I wounder what it would be for BW? I do think in some cases the BC is still a bit color struck"

Judging by the dark-skinned black men like Reggie Bush and Idris Elba that are the current sex symbols I'd say most sisters are willing to skew darker for a mate. The fact that light-skinned BW date and marry dark-skinned BM demonstrates this. However, find a light-skinned BM with ANYTHING but a light/white woman and I'd be pretty surprised.

The BC is color struck because BM are color struck. Color affects desirability and women are the MOST affected by standards of desirability. There is no such thing as men and women being equal - never has and never will. That is why the actions and behaviors of black men in terms of relationships cannot be compared to the actions and behaviors of black women.

When mass numbers of successful black men started dating out in the 70's and 80's it didn't really matter because there were still middle class black men "holding it down". Once middle class black men became working class black men they began to abandon the idea of marriage and family altogether. Leaving many BW without viable options for husbands. The desire of women to get married and have children does not go away because their male counterpart is going to prison or not achieving in large numbers.

[Reese]

@tusk91

Ok, so most black men have high school diplomas and are not in the criminal justice system.

Does this mean that they are choosing black women to marry?

Does this mean that they understand the intrinsic benefits of marriage in Western society?

I think we all know that stats about black men and crime are skewed toward an agenda but that is not what this series of posts is about.

If only 35% of black men marry and of that 35%, close to 15% marry women of other races - where does that leave BW?

In order for most men to feel comfortable marrying they must a)feel that a woman is worthy of provision and protection and b)feel that they can reasonably provide provision and protection for that woman and future children.

The problem is that many BM do not feel "a" about average looking black women. Period, end of story. So until more black men feel that average looking black women are worthy of their provision and protection all other talk is futile.

[Khadija]

Lunanoire,

You (and others) have quite clearly described various behavior patterns. Among other things, you said, "Even if more black boys and men took advantage of educational and vocational opportunities, I have doubts that BW would automatically gain."

You're absolutely correct about this. Look at the behavior of the AA men who do have "good" educations and jobs. Since so many BM in that category are not marrying at all, or they're not marrying BW, there's no reason to assume that BW would gain from AA men having more opportunities. I learned that just by watching the behavior of the BM that went to college and law school with me. There's usually little to no return on that sort of investment (creating opportunities for AA men) flowing back to any BW at all.

If you look at their mass behavior (not the lip-service-only rhetoric), it's quite clear that most AA men don't value marriage, and are not at all concerned about the now-dead "Black family." AA men LIKE the status quo situation of their mass refusal to marry the BW they have sex with and impregnate. The bulk of AA men are quite happy with a lifetime of sleeping around without the commitments or responsibilities of marriage.

If you look at their mass behavior, it's also quite clear that AA men are also not particularly concerned about the children they produce.

These "save the dead Black family" discussions are not even a blip on most AA men's radar . . . UNLESS and UNTIL BW start talking about solutions that don't include BW continuing to wait around for AA men---such as IRR and focusing on non-AA men (for those BW who just have to have a BM as their husband).

Many of the BM who, at that point, enter these conversations do so solely to try to defend BM's image and defend the status quo.

So that's when you hear:

1- the denials that the problem exists;

2- the attempts to minimize AA men's culpability for their own mass actions (their mass failure to protect or provide for AA children---including the failure to provide stable, married households for their children to grow up within);

3-the attempts to scare BW away from exploring their IRR options (that "WM will just use you for sex" talk---meanwhile, that's exactly what the masses of AA men are using BW for---somehow this detail escapes the BM protectionists' notice);

4-the attempts to manipulate/pressure BW to lower whatever standards they might have (the incessant demands to hear BW say, over and over again, that they would date "blue collar" BM---meanwhile, NO other type of woman on this planet is required to recite a "dating loyalty oath" to include blue collar men as dating partners. Many of the same AA men who insist that AA women swear dating allegiance to "blue collar" BM also demand that AA extend this same dating allegiance to BM ex-convicts, BM recovering addicts, old BM for young BW (see Steve Harvey), and so on.

5-the attempt to pretend that others are doing the same things and having the same experiences to the same degree. NO, nobody else is having out of wedlock children at the rate of AAs. NO, nobody else is trying to turn a woman having an education into a stigma at the rate of AAs. Others might be experiencing milder versions of these pathologies, but NOBODY is living like the masses of AAs.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

[knockoutchick]

Most PBM I know would wait until they are in a nursing home or on a respirator to marry especially if they cannot find a fairer skinned bride. ;-)

All these darkies need to stop yo' complainin' As a Class A darkie, I can tell you, it is better if you get comfortable with the reality of it and yourself. Of course BM say they Looooove dark skinned BW, but how many PBM do you see marrying them...I don't know any.... and that is OK. We have to accept you can not change the desires and loves of others.

It starts sooo young. I have very young relatives, who are small boys, who really don't completely understand race and skin colors issues asking me if I am "mixed"?

I asked them , why they would ask such a question..and they said because "I was pretty". Mind you, I am black as coal....or close to it ;-)

Because as all of you know "mixed" means beautiful.

[tusk91]

#43 "I think we all know that stats about black men and crime are skewed toward an agenda but that is not what this series of posts is about."

- I agree just didn't feel comfortable letting it be said that "MAJORITY of black men are criminals, undereducated and live outside of mainstream." and I wanted to correct that lie with facts.

"The problem is that many BM do not feel “a” about average looking black women. Period, end of story. So until more black men feel that average looking black women are worthy of their provision and protection all other talk is futile."

- Very true statement and also very unfortunate I have to say.

[tusk91]

#44 3-the attempts to scare BW away from exploring their IRR options (that “WM will just use you for sex” talk—meanwhile, that’s exactly what the masses of AA men are using BW for—somehow this detail escapes the BM protectionists’ notice);

- I have never understood this if BM and the BC could keep BW from dating IR then couldn't we in term make them easily recite the “dating loyalty oath” and marry every broke, or ex con BM out there.

There is only so much anyone can make anyone else do.

[gem2001]

I'm trying to figure our how this became about Black men at all. If a Black man is unmarriagble, he's irrelevant to me. If a Black man will only date Halle Berry, he's irrelevant to me. If he ain't got a HS diploma, he's irrelevant to me. If he has children, he's irrelevant to me. If he's in jail, irrelevant. If he's only into White women, irrelevant! If he's not in to busty BBW's he's irrelevant. irrelevant. irrelevant to me. He might as well be another woman, I'm not giving him the time of day and don't care about what he does and who he does it with.

So why are we wasting time trying to prosecute the case that it's all Black men's fault? If Black men never do what they are supposed to do in your eyes, what does that have to do with you?

This is about self determination. If you truly want to be married, I suggest you be about the business of finding like minded individuals and leaving behind those who ain't about helping you get closer to the alter.

That also means crafting YOUR OWN COMMUNITY! MY black community is not dysfunctional. That's one of the reasons I can look at other Black communities and ask "WTH?" Its because I'm not surrounded by foolishness that when I see it, it sticks out.

So I get it, you're pissed at professional Black men. Well groovey, so now what? Life goes on. Your choice is to sit around chronicling the decisions of people we do not own or control or be about the business of being happy on your own terms.

This series was about US, Black women, living out the lives of OUR CHOICE. I can't control the lusts and urges of other folks and won't try. There is a lid for every pot that wants to be covered. I don't need 1000 lids, only one. i don't waste my time on lids that don't fit.

Y'all have a lovely weekend. Fighting in the comments section and whatnot.

[tusk91]

#45 I was the only PBM of three(3) sons that married a BW that is the same complexion as me, brown skin. My brothers married darker woman than themselves. One brother married a very dark skin BW in fact.

I agree we are color struck my preference actually was for darker sista's. It all went back to the actress who played "Fanta" off of the mini series "Roots" way back when(lol).

Maybe location matters some because dark complected sista on the HBCU campus I attended had zero issues in the dating department.

[Monica]

@lunanoire

How can a homeless man have a daughter who's an attorney still be homeless?

Most people who are first generation professionals or college graduates know the routine....

a) The son or daughter are too mired in debt that can only offer occasional aid. Yes there is financial aid and scholarships sometimes it doesn't cover the living expenses including health insurance family members can not provide. (Honestly I didn't see the dentist regularly until I went to grad school).

b) The children have their own mortgages and families to care for.

c)The children who are professionals are helping out other family members in need. Daddy's homeless or my sister and her 3 year-old are about to be kicked out-you help the baby out first and try to help daddy if you can.

d) Finally, some people just are not willing to do for themselves. They lack the imagination to see themselves not struggling. They'll brag about the children who made it and wonder how they did it.