What About Our Daughters

The children were targeted because they weren't the offspring of ghettofied negroes... The Administrators complicit inthe false allegation of child neglect should be FIRED.

I can understand children being trifling and teasing other children, but when GROWN people start acting like childhood bullies, I have to draw the line. This case is sooo much more than smart black children being harrassed. It's about a systematic oppression of black academic talent by black people based on some warped idea of what an "authentic" black is.

These children were targeted because they were black, but also because they weren't what the powers that be considered to be the black norm. I'm glad about the precedent the settlement sets. It puts School Administrators on notice that they have an obligation to protect their black high acheivers from harrassment by both students and other Administrators alike.

JJ, I've the it acted out in black schools where there is a wide social/economic structure. It didn't matter how much money their parents have, but because they were black they were to act a certain way. The redneck/pwtt doesn't apply here because solely based it on economics, blacks base it own culture. Many blacks put parameters on what it means to be black. That's why Condi Rice and others(no matter what they achieve) are in my opinion mistakenly viewed as sell outs, why people like Lil Wayne, 50 Cent and Sean Combs are held to a higher standard in our communities.

Sorry, about the typos. I meant to say, I've seen it acted out in black schools.

"These children were targeted because they were black, but also because they weren’t what the powers that be considered to be the black norm."

Exactly, these children didn't fit what was considered to be the 'black norm'. The school officials saw these girls as a threat to the mediocre educational systmen they and the community have accepted.

@jj

"It’s a class/social issue. MommieDearest’s post proved that."

I think it can be both a race and class/social status issue. But in my case, it was purely because I was black. I was just as poor, and lived in the same neighborhood as the rest of the hoodrats who attended my elementary school. The difference is that I was a hoodrat who did not have the matching hoodrat mentality. My mother wasn't having it. Because of that, it was perceived that I "thought I was better" than the rest of them. What's really ironic is that the ones who tortured me the most were the first ones to try to get me to cheat with them on tests.

BTW, the only way I was able to afford private school is because my mother got a second job and my grandmother chipped in and talked with the school's principal to work out a payment plan. They sacrificed for me. And I will be eternally grateful for that.

@12 MommieDearest

I am a more progressive minded person at heart, and usually vote Democratic.

But, your case does make a good argument for "School vouchers" I must say. Hate to say it but, the Republicans have that one right.

What is unclear, and which could turn this into a racial claim, excluding the discussion from the point of view of the children's actions, race v. class, was the response of the teachers and administrators. Were they black? Were they white?

The impression I have is that the white children go to the private schools, but the black children go to the public schools.

Were the administrators black or white? Where these black people permitting class-based discrimination in the form of race, children persecuted for "acting white," or were these white people permitting class-based discrimination because the children were black?

PVW,

I believe the race of the Administrators and educators involved was black.

@JJ (#7)

Great comment and that was my experience as well. As you say, so many so-called universal Black experiences are not but they fit into a narrative that people are comfortable with.

tusk91

[I am a more progressive minded person at heart, and usually vote Democratic.

But, your case does make a good argument for “School vouchers” I must say. Hate to say it but, the Republicans have that one right.]

That's true.

I find it ironic that the "racist" George W. Bush signed into law the school voucher program for DC while the "pro-Black" Barack Obama later killed the program. Naturally, Black Democrats are increasingly ticked off at Obama, whose actions shout "Only kids from Black elite snob homes should attend safe top-notch schools."

Read more here:

*D.C. School Voucher Supporters Denounce Obama:

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0909/657267.html

As Dr. King said, we should judge people by their character not skin color. The above case shows that more Black kids are willing to call out their peers-and even adults-who prefer mental enslavement over true freedom.

@MommieDearest

I was just as poor, and lived in the same neighborhood as the rest of the hoodrats who attended my elementary school. The difference is that I was a hoodrat who did not have the matching hoodrat mentality. My mother wasn’t having it. Because of that, it was perceived that I “thought I was better” than the rest of them. What’s really ironic is that the ones who tortured me the most were the first ones to try to get me to cheat with them on tests.

And you're proving my point.

It had nothing to do with your being black - you were different - your momma put you on clean clothes. Your momma fixed your hair - you were just as poor but you came to school with "airs" as perceived by the children.

You were a reminder of their inferiority and you - in their minds - thought you were better.

ClASSIC social/class issue.

@shell - in the red neck/pwtt scenario they are all white. They are picking on the other white kid because he's different (re: smart/neat/clean) - it's the EXACT same situation.

It's their (red neck/pwtt) culture. You're supposed not be bright and live in a trailer park and wave a confederate flag and work blue collar jobs - etc.

The reason why this "actin' white" racial discrimination case "seems" right is 'cause too many black folks buy into the same steotypes that white people set about us - we don't like education, we view it as a white thing, we attack the smart kids.

WE don't do anything. A certain segment of the black population adhere to such notions largely due to the class/social structure many were raised in (mind you I'm the product of 19 year old GED having single mom - but she didn't play that ish so...) - my friends are doctors, lawyers, phd's, pharmacists etc.

I'm sure many of the black women reading this blog have similar friends with similar educations - so no this is NOT a black thing which is why this NOT a race issue - this is a social/class issue that you can find among ALL populations when someone is perceived to be "better" than the rest.

We as a people have to stop buying into this meme on who we are - when it's black woman related folk are up in arms - when it comes to class not so much.

@MommieDearest

I was just as poor, and lived in the same neighborhood as the rest of the hoodrats who attended my elementary school. The difference is that I was a hoodrat who did not have the matching hoodrat mentality. My mother wasn’t having it. Because of that, it was perceived that I “thought I was better” than the rest of them. What’s really ironic is that the ones who tortured me the most were the first ones to try to get me to cheat with them on tests.

And you're proving my point.

It had nothing to do with your being black - you were different - your momma put you on clean clothes. Your momma fixed your hair - you were just as poor but you came to school with "airs" as perceived by the children.

You were a reminder of their inferiority and you - in their minds - thought you were better.

ClASSIC social/class issue.

@shell - in the red neck/pwtt scenario they are all white. They are picking on the other white kid because he's different (re: smart/neat/clean) - it's the EXACT same situation.

It's their (red neck/pwtt) culture. You're supposed nto ot be bright and live in a trailer park and wave a confederate flag and work blue collar jobs - etc.

The reason why this "actin' white" racial discrimination case "seems" right is 'cause too many black folks buy into the same steotypes that white people set about us - we don't like education, we view it as a white thing, we attack the smart kids.

WE don't do anything. A certain segment of the black population adhere to such notions largely due to the class/social structure many were raised in (mind you I'm the product of 19 year old GED having single mom - but she didn't play that ish so...) - my friends are doctors, lawyers, phd's, pharmacists etc.

I'm sure many of the black women reading this blog have similar friends with similar educations - so no this is NOT a black thing which is why this NOT a race issue - this is a social/class issue that you can find among ALL populations when someone is perceived to be "better" than the rest.

We as a people have to stop buying into this meme on who we are - when it's black woman related folk are up in arms - when it comes to class not so much.

Okay I went to a mixed race school with a wide range of economic classes. I took college prep classes or what many other blacks called "white folks classes." Now those same blacks didn't seem to see anything wrong with white kids in the school, whether poorer or richer than them, taking the classes, just other blacks who they said "were trying to be something we weren't."

I hear what JJ is saying. I've been around PWT and heard similar comments and I know kids are every economic level make fun of the bookworms or nerds in some way. However this is a little more insidious (sorry about the spelling) and goes beyond achievement. If you like a different music style or certain foods or clothes you are accused of trying to be white.

We are letting our culture be defined by the lowest common denomenators and limiting ourselves. I even see it among affluent black kids who act "hood" to gain credibility with other blacks.

Two examples:
First (the less credible) A little black girl I saw on one of the daytime talk shows who said she wanted to be white because white people said "please" and "thank you." Now true this had to do with problems in her home but for her to associate this along racial lines was very telling.

Second a book called To Be Popular or Smart: The Black Peer Group by Jawanza Kunjufu. It looks as several black students in different situations including a black girl in a all black Catholic school where she and many of the other girls all wore designer clothes, etc. Yet she was called stuck up becasue she received a 97 on her midterm not because she was wealthier or displaying more attributes of wealth than the others.

So yes it is racial discrimination because no one else is being discouraged by their own race to do well simply because they are of that race. Meanwhile the perpertrators are not heaping this upon anyone else of any other race but their own.

Certain categories are protected classes according to US law: race, color, religion, gender, national origin, dis/ability, etc. A person can bring a discrimination suit based on these categories with greater ease in the sense that a framework exists to approach them. However, in law school I read a case where someone tried to bring a socioeconomic-based discrimination case. The plaintiff lost, becase the judge held that it is ok to discriminate against others based on their class background.

@Keisha

Which is why I find this case disturbing - I don't like the precedent it sets that class issues within (cetain) impoverished communities can be treated as race issues.

I'm sure the lawyer in this case used this particular statue 'cause he thought he could spin it to a settlement - which he did - but it's just wrong.

By all accounts the school needed suing, but not this way - this is just messy.

Keisha,

In some jurisdictions, class (socio-economic status) is protected. For example, Washington, DC has 19 protected classes.

@jj

We will have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Bee's comment #20 explains it very well, IMO. I also attended an integrated high school with a mix of races, ethnicities and students of different economic status. For some inane reason, when it was the black children who were discouraged from excelling academically by some of their peers, it cut across class/economic lines. I think its more of a mindset. And it's a dangerous one at that.

@ tusk91 comment #13

You make a valid point.

@Fred- thanks for the links. *smh*

JJ churching it up, in here.

@MommieDearest,

There is something about the black culture that seems to constantly wants others to prove their blackness.

I once read an article by a black writer who discussed this very same topic. In jest, the article argue that using being black (ie race)as an excuse for under achievement is easier to stomach than it being a cultural one. His main argument was that you can change your culture but you can't change your race. So using blackness as an excuse for not reaching ones potential is much easier to take. It takes the burden off of you.

I believe, not all, but a wide range of AA still hold onto to this notion of what it means to be black. Sometimes imaginery barriers are harder to move than real ones.

The kids weren’t targeted ’cause they were black – I’ve seen the same thing happen among Red Neck/PWTT groups – except when it happens there it isn’t called “Actin’ White” you’re accused of being “liberal” or having “northern airs” or being “high falutin” or having “too much book learning.”

You've just prove everyone's point. Those insults are cultural and socieoeconomic, not racial. When someone's tells you that you're 'actin white' it cuts much deeper because you are led to believe all you're life that being black was all of who you are and something you can't change. Yeah, PWTT can called others yankee, liberal, airs, but at the end of day their whiteness isn't being call into question, just their behavior.

JJ-INTERSECTIONALITY. Race & Class are often (usually) intertwined. If it were "just" class, the insults would be purely class based (e.g., rich boy...)

I dealt with this in school. My quiet behavior, studiousness and manner of speech and the fact that I had two highly functional parents made me susceptible to accusations of "acting white". (Mind you I encountered direct and institutional racism and fought against in ways that my accusers never would). I would now describe it as racialized insults born of class divisions and feelings of inferiority. In the south we call it Crabs in a Bucket.

I grew up with white folks who also did the "nerd" thing to other whites. NOT.EVEN.CLOSE. They don't have the cultural baggage of the perceived "solidarity" that we "have" or think we "need".
.
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Folks, don't let those that would keep you in the depths of the status quo deflect your understanding of your experiences.

I don't know how I feel about this. I am actually more concerned by the allegations of sexual harassment, and Im curious to know exactly what was said and in what context.

As far as the acting white thing goes...I have been accused of the same thing, but it was NEVER as a result of academic achievement, and most black people that I've talked to, who honestly jog their memory agree-the teasing doesn't come because of academic achievement. The teasing comes due to the perception of one's behavior. It's STILL NOT RIGHT, but it's DIFFERENT. I refuse to believe Black children are allergic to achievement and discourage it in others. I've worked with children, I've never seen it. I HAVE seen harassment when a child speaks, behaves, or shows interest in things not stereotypically Black. But those who "act white" don't automatically have good grades, lol It's a stupid correlation that is rarely ever addressed in these discussions. Just because you "sound" white or use standard English doesn't mean you make good grades, and thus doesn't mean you are hated for your achievement (or lack thereof). And let's face it-people of all racial and social groups do this. I learned the term wigger from Whites...why do you think they use it?? All groups impose ridiculous expectations on their members.

I also don't associate this with class differences. Some of the most ignorant Black people I've been around have been nuveau riche middle class obnoxious Kanye types. Often those Black children growing up in predominantly white neighborhoods still feel the pressure to perform Blackness, and that pressure is coming from Whites as well as Blacks. They are "tokened" and "othered" into play a role anyway.

And for the person who says it's different for whites...not really. A girl recently committed suicide due to bullying, and anti-bullying campaigns exist throughout this country. Do you think it matters to a child who stays home from school why?

I am for progress, but we need to stop allowing people to view certain behaviors with the Black pathology lens. As a victim of "acting white" BS, I often felt sorry for those kids who simply didn't know that they weren't predestined to behave a certain way. I'm not saying that the lawsuit was without merit-the article didn't provide enough detail IMO.

Love this blog BTW

@LeJane Gait -

I grew up with white folks who also did the “nerd” thing to other whites. NOT.EVEN.CLOSE. They don’t have the cultural baggage of the perceived “solidarity” that we “have” or think we “need”.

Which is why filing racial discrimination lawsuits against behavior born of a racist society is horrendous.

@Shell

Yeah, PWTT can called others yankee, liberal, airs, but at the end of day their whiteness isn’t being call into question, just their behavior.

Their Americanness (i.e. their whitness) is being called into question. They aren't REAL Americans, etc. you're putting qualifiers (it's not the same) on a phenomenon that cuts across racial groups.

I"m sure white kids don't like havig their Americaness questioned - or not being worth of respect b/c they got some "book learnin."

Anti-intellectualism is an AMERICAN thing NOT a black thing - and in this case it's a feeling of being made inferior that perpetuates this behaviour not a dislike of a particular race.

@Bee

I'm seriously amazed how folk can make such wide sweeping remarks about black people from what amounts to isolated and often taken out of context events.

When folk were up in arms about the Precious marketing (I am Precious) everyone was so quick to point out that they weren't precious. And how dare they insinuate otherwise.

Now all of sudden everyone wants to talk about how black folk are anti-intellectual and racist against their own -(and though it happens in white groups somehow that's different - cause of course when black folk do it it's worse) though that wasn't my experience nor the experience of others.

We quickly want to dismiss the social/class issues that perpetuate this foolishness as well as the real racist history that's responsible for most of this - but then want to condemn the kids who act out b/c of their internalized self hatred and inferiority cause of their social standing as "crabs in the bucket."

Le Sigh

JJ said: but then want to condemn the kids who act out b/c of their internalized self hatred and inferiority cause of their social standing as “crabs in the bucket.”

Me:self hatred is a choice.as is bad parenting and criminal behavior.

All I know is when I was growing up white kids could act "black" or "white" or however they wanted without facing significant harassment at the hands of black kids at school, while black kids violently harassed other black kids for acting white or being too light dark fat skinny or whatever else.I defitnetly believe it's a race issue simply because black criminals don't tend to harass others like they will another black person even when they come in contact with whites and others.

JJ, why are you so quick to dismiss black on black racism or violence. You are seemingly disvaluing other people's experience, as if it's all in our heads. I stand by my argument and others. Blacks are harder on each other than any other cultural or racial group.

White folks don't get caught up in the questioning of their "Americaness". You are reaching far and grabbing for straws.

I am not ashamed to admit I have played into this concept of being black. In like in the book "Shifting", Blacks have learned how to shift between the 'black world' and the 'white world.'

@shell

I'm saying this case isn't about black on black racism - I've readily admitted that "Actin White" happens - but that it's not a race thing - it's a class/social issue and defense mechanism for kids who feel inferior -

- I've pointed out that this is NOT a black issue - that such actions play out in all disenfranchised groups - a point you like to so readily dismiss

- I'm also point out - just like the precious story - is NOT a universial black experience and it shouldn't be framed as such. Yet black folk are so quick to turn class/social issues into "black issues" when it fits a convenient story line about "those" blacks.

Me:self hatred is a choice.as is bad parenting and criminal behavior.

So self hatred in children is a choice - really? Seriously?

On a side note: I'm so tired of people talking about choice. Choice is relative and largely bred of your life experiences not of the choices other people perceive you have.

Sigh.

*sigh* eyeroll.

I love laypeople's attempt to make sense of the law. Law and logic have nothing to do with each other.

CIvil rights cases are strict liability. It can be de facto discrimination or de jure discrimination. It matters not if class geography or eye color played a roll, if you can make the case that these children were treated differently in any small part based on on one of the protected classes, then you should be able to make it past summary judgement.

So all of this discussion is lovely and what not, but if they said "acting white" or treated her differently than they would have a white, hispanic, or other child of another race, in the same circumstance then that violates the law.

I'm overjoyed and hope more parents bring the smack down on this foolishness.

A few of you don't get/understand JJ's argument that this is a class (social) issue because [probably] you come at your understanding of what class is from the ill-informed American perspective, which is that class is based only on how much money you (in this case, one's parents) make. (I notice this, too, with many of us black American folks, who misuse the class-based word "bourgeois"--calling someone "bourgie" as an insult. Because, most often, too many of us don't know what the word truly means.)

On another blog, I once got into a comments board argument with someone, because I said that Beyonce (from an interview of her I saw) was not middle class, based on how she speaks, her limited vocabulary, and her misuse of a few words. The other person jumped down my throat, telling me that I was wrong, that she was upper middle class, because her father earned a high salary. Duh! How much money one earns does not class make--there is a lot of folks in the English upper-classes who don't even have a pot to piss in.

During my childhood years I went to a public elementary school outside of my neighbourhood (white and lower-middle to middle class, and white Jewish middle class). In my black, and [mostly] working class neighbourhood, I was occasionally teased--sometimes beaten up--by the [poor] black kids, who accused me of "acting white" and/or "thinking that I was better than them." Looking back on it: "Acting white" had very little to do with skin colour, and much to do with that for some blacks (the poorer ones, especially; or more specifically, blacks who were only ever exposed to folks such as themselves, and who, unbeknownst to themselves, have an inferiority complex or who hate their blackness) "whiteness" equates with being the best, or top-notch, or smart, or excellence. Really, I don't think that I would have gotten teased and/or beaten up if I spoke like them or if my mother dressed me like them or if I did not read so much in public.

Well, that is just my two-cents, and my support for the argument that JJ is making.

Okay well here is my argument. Children are to be able to attend school without being ganged up on and mentally tortured and their parents ought to be able to nail any and all miscreants that create a hostile environment. Y'all can play delusional if ya want to up in these comments, but I'm not hearing it.

These little demons and their adult enablers don't give a rip about your class arguments. They saw some Black kids who wre not acting within their acceptable norms for Blackness and tormented them. Class be dayumed, the girl would not have been harassed if she was blue haired and brown eyed.

I give the side eye to those of you who are "troubled" Why? That little kids will now have recourse? Its racist! If she wan't black they would not have harassed her. Stop acting playing dumb up in the comments section acting as if Black people don't pick on other Black people while smiling shucking and jiving for non Black people.

Crime statistics show that most violent crimes committed (these days) are same race or ethnic group. So, I guess that it would follow (or perhaps, start) that a black student is more likely to be teased/messed with/harrassed by another black student(s) than by a white or Hispanic or Asian one.

It is not delusional (and that is a harsh word to use, for it is associated with psychological sickness) to participate in this discussion (which is what I thought was happening here), wherein, although the attorney fought, and won, the case based upon racial discrimination (black on black crime), that one cannot think, and talk, about some other issues related to what happened, which were not brought into evidence to win the legal case.

*rolls eyes*

No ones trying to make "sense of the law."

I've already stated that the use of the statue clearly made sense from a lawyer-ing prospective.

That under the protected nature of certain populations (as Keisha pointed out) it was a smart out of the box move that - as I stated - the lawyer probably thought he could use to force a settlement as the school district would not want to go forward with a trial.

I understand that - layperson that I am. However that doesn't mean I have to like it - as there are other legal precedents that have been set, that I don't like but that doesn't stop them from being "legal."

I don't like for the reasons I have mentioned. I'm all for parents hammering schools for allowing harassment to occur BUT I don't have to like the way they went about winning the case.

@redcatbicycliste

Thank you - b/c folk here don't understand that class is not always about money.

@Gem

If she wan’t black they would not have harassed her.

No - if she didn't speak differently and/or dress differently then they did she would not have been picked on.

Case point: Lena Horne is from an upper class black family. When she lived with her grandparent in their all black Brooklyn enclave, with thier "bourgeois" airs everything was fine. All the black folk were like her - no issue.

When her mother took her and moved down south - she didn't fit in. She didn't look like/dress like/speak like those kids - and payed for it. They ostracized her and wouldn't play with her.

She learned quickly that to fit in she had to be more like them. Once she did that - the teasing stopped and she had plenty of friends.

When she went back to Brooklyn she'd go back to her "bourgeois" ways and adjust accordingly - as she moved between the two world.

She wasn't treated badly in the south b/c she was black - she was treated badly b/c the kids saw her as different - perhaps believed she thought she was better than them - class/social issues all day.

And that's what happened here. And happens in disenfranchised communities across the board. Black folk aren't immune to those class/social issues.

I totally agree that the level of hostility towards those children are being downplayed. I was a victim of intense bullying and teasing for being a 7th grader taking 8th and 9th grade classes. Black girls wanted to fight me and I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW THEM. So glad to hear of this ruling. All of what I went through would not had happened if I were white.

Remember the school teacher that cut the little black girls hair?I'm thoroughly convinced that she wouldn't have done that to a little white girl.What about the black lady who hit the little black boy in the store for acting up?Surely she's seen little white kids at the store acting up.I wonder did she hit them?What about black men who kill others blacks because they looked at him funny?Surely he's gotten some strange looks from whites when he's out and about.I wonder if he killed them too?I doubt it!
Plenty of black people do the worse things to other black people that they'd never do to a white person in the same scenario.

Race issue.

@JJ Sorry, you're just being intellectually dishonest. It was because she was Black that she was expected to speak a certain way. Had she not been Black she would not have been expected to conform to the little miscreants totalitarian dictates. Sorry, I'll take my argument in front of a jury any day vs yours. In addition, the little demons probably used words that mentioned her race as part of their harassment. I pretty sure the little demons weren't running around harassing upper class White folks. I just wish the family could sue the parents of the little tyrants as well. Maybe a massive court judgement and attorney's fees will teach people to leave ppl alone.

@Tania I'm glad you noticed that too.

Class issues and race issues aren't mutually exclusive. I can see that both were a factor here. These children were singled out because they were black AND acting in non-conformist ways.

She learned quickly that to fit in she had to be more like them. Once she did that – the teasing stopped and she had plenty of friends

IOW, it's Lena Horne's fault. You actually blamed the victim of teasing for the violence.

redcat~see my comment on the racialized class aspect. That's what confused me about these kids. Everything that was inferior was coded black. This was at odds with my upbringing. I was raised by black parents who dictated what black person I was going to discuss in class projects. I grew up in a situation where I was one of the few...there was no confusion about who I was and what was expected of me. Excellence is in my black DNA. This whole "acting" situation is very anti-black.

Question for all?

Who gets to decide what the definition of Teh Blackness is? How should Black folks speak, behave? Why such a desire to police the boundaries of Teh Black?

Truthp~one of the saddest things I noticed about the Acting Black folks is that they were forever running their hands through some white girl's hair and talking about how pretty it was. I had a gym teacher who was a black lesbian. She hated me for no apparent reason. However, she was always grinning in the face of white girls and being buddy-buddy with them. Behind her back they talked so much shit about her.
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FFS~ I described this sad phenomenon as a racialized class-based harassment. Attempting to co-erce, cajole, sabotage or otherwise bully someone into a "position" (deemed acceptable) is class Crabs in a Bucket.

As long as we have black folks excusing or defending harrassment of other black folks it's going to remain a black problem.

As long as we have BLACK folks telling (literally and figuratively) other black folks to stay in their place (oh irony of irony~how the Grand High Arbiters of Blackness parrot the worst aspects of whiteness) it's going to remain a black problem.

Miki is right. I don't think these children would have treated white children the same way. They harassed them BECAUSE they were black and not acting in the manner they thought they should act. Now part of that is class, but a larger part is about race, about how we black people think we and other black people are supposed to act, simply because we are black.

Lol @ Little demons.
How about those adult black male miscreants that sexually harass black women while crossing the street while steadfastly ignoring our white sisters on said street? If you ignore them you tend to be subject to verbal abuse.

I was teased relentlessly as well as a kid, not for doing well in school but because of my taste in music and style of dress. As many of you know, blacks were only ALLOWED to listen to rap or r&b otherwise you were not authentically black. Thankfully that is changing.

I do think the harrassment in the black community is different and more insidious and dangerous.

In regards to JJ's example of poorer whites harassing other poor whites for "putting on airs" as a similiar to poor black harassing other blacks, and it therefore being more about class, I disagree. I don't think they are similiar at all. Though, I am not around many poorer white people, I don't imagine these type of comments are as common as the "acting white" or "sellout" comments are in the black community. Further, the comments made by whites are not as sharp or biting. For some younger black people few things are worse than being called a "sellout".

I know it's off topic but it speaks to the way some blacks reserve a special type of treatment just for other blacks.