Consider This One Blogger's Version of ACT UP!
Wednesday, July 15, 2009 at 7:29AM The Blogmother Well now that we've turned into a society of Amazons where no men are needed and we use the cloned sperm created in a lab I guess that pesky abandoned child situation has been taken care of. Because the kids don't want a set of parents since their parents can't or won't be together. Moving on then...
A Beautiful Birth To A New Mindset
For all of those that can't withstand the mere mention of the dysfunction in SOME black men without losing it you might want to change the channel. There is no way of sweetening the bitterness so that SOME of you may deign to read and comprehend. I can't recork the bottle. My experiences are not yours and we don't all share the same perspectives. So proceed with caution and take deep breaths. If ALL of your experiences have been straight out of a Disney film enjoy your memories because that is truly wonderful. This isn't a movie and we have to do a cold-hard assessment of what it's like for the collective not a few individuals. So proceed....
Someone asked me if I really believed that the majority of black men despise black women. After my awakening outside the Matrix last week I would say absolutely. I'm not going by my feelings. There was no break-up and nobody "done me wrong". I had a conversation with some men and gave them every opportunity to be gracious. Their contempt floored me and it wasn't directly about me. I realized that contempt went from Michelle Obama to Serena Williams to you and me. Educated men who are not criminals, unemployed, or multiple baby-daddies. You know the ones we'd think were "normal". So it got me thinking. If this is what you consider NORMAL behavior then you've been devalued for far too long and have lost all discernment.
- Abandoning a woman and the child you've created is a sign of contempt.
- Denying your child and not providing (well) for him/her because you don't like the mother. (The Kelis/Nas divorce will show this. Will she now become a "chickenhead" to justify the deplorable behavior of the black male rap artist "God"?)
- Killing the child from another woman's previous relationship.
- Promoting lighter skin as your preference is skin shade racism. Black on black racism. Whatever you don't prefer you place little value in.
- These numerous (educated, non criminal) men who ecstatically dissect the body Serena Williams in the most condescending manner imaginable, write articles referring to Michelle Obama as a "ghetto girl" and other public attacks on black women.
- These men that complain about black women for every little thing we do or don't do.
- These men that refer to us as Pedestal Pattys for daring to go on a date w/o offering sex afterwards. The entire purpose of dating is to find out if you are compatible for marriage. At least that's what the purpose of dating is supposed to be. It's not how little money you can spend before suggesting we do the mattress mambo or claiming to be "nice".
- Not being able to walk down the street without some guy trying to "holla" at you. It is in fact worse. Women have been shot and killed over not handing over a phone number or agreeing to go out with these DBRs. It is street harassment, & physical intimidation.
- The 50% rape and molestation rate for black girls living in the "black community".
- The complete SILENCE from the"good" men who see all of this happening and DO NOTHING to stop it. With the public Letterman smack-down over the Palin "joke" we see how white men DO step in when necessary to police the men in their group.
Nowadays some pretty warped thinking has people doing everything out of order is the correct way to live. People who know better have remained SILENT. No more!!
If this wasn't about black men would you feel free to find any of this deplorable?
As I've already shown in this post on a blogger who recognizes DBR behavior, you can read the thoughts and words of a white man who wasn't afraid to state the obvious. They consider the bulk of the white women who get involved with black men to be low class. They very plainly see the mass dysfunction in the "black community" but aren't saying anything. Anytime it has potential to spill over into their residential areas or disrupt their daily lives they IMMEDIATELY step in to put a stop to it.
Exhibit A. Post-Katrina armed guards stop survivors from entering their less damaged areas
Exhibit B. PA Private Club bans Creative Steps students
Too many blacks are decrying the racism instead of putting two and two together. When you let gangsta rap take over with their talk of shooting the police, drugs, alcoholism, violence and a death wish you put them on alert (even as the white male executives who actively promoted that garbage made billions for their companies). When you let people go on Jerry Springer and Maury to display the results of their out of control sexual escapades and proof of irresponsibility, people took notice. When BET decided they were going to show blacks at their absolute worse and blacks ate it up, people took notice. Even now this latest reality show about the drug addict mother and sister of an R&B singer is being watched. When the liberal use of the N-Word is condoned and by a man who's a college professor (and infotainment hustler) and he was NOT SHUT DOWN, people took notice.
That would be all the other racial/ethnic groups. The average African-American? Not so much. People complained but they didn't do anything to stop it.
Has it occurred to anyone there's a reason why certain blacks are getting unfettered air time because they're reinforcing this dysfunction. It not only upholds white supremacy but it prepares others to write off ALL blacks.
Let's talk about the way black women interact with each other. Since so many are still living the dysfunctional "black community" lie they're usually competing with each over some variation of a DBR. They rush to buy relationship books from black men, even men who've been married three times and cheated on his last wife with his current one. They defer to these men and are male-identified. They'll forgive a man for anything short of rape or murder (and sometimes that too) but will cross another black woman off their list for good for any little slight or for having a difference of opinion. They often berate their female children and are extra harsh on them. They don't warn them of the dangers of their environments or prepare them. They often regard each other with suspicion or are generally dismissive and competitive in other situations not involving men for NO REASON. They often adopt the same DBR behaviors but only when dealing with other.
I have to admit I was prepared to take the hits from black men who don't want the DBR behavior evaluated and the women who rush to their defense. I see it all the time. Any mere mention that black man isn't perfect is seen as a challenge. I am an advocate for black women and girls after all. What I didn't expect was the vitriol I'd get from some of those women for talking about why the OOW birth rate is literally killing them and their children. We don't want to continue sending the message that's it's a day at the park when we know that's a lie.
ACT UP! was founded in 1987 by a few radical LGBTs and supporters who decided that the death and poor quality of life for their group was UNACCEPTABLE. They insisted that individual people change their behavior. Yes they had their choices dissected. Yes they were told they couldn't just do whatever they wanted. They had to take precautions. They had to THINK. No it wouldn't do anything for some people but it would prevent a similar unpleasant set of circumstances for others. That's the point. Save the group. By any means necessary. It was also why the shift occurred to promote stable relationships and marriage. This is how the rest of society operates and they could not continue to act in opposition of it. So if that means women don't have sex until well past 21, so be it. If that means leaving behind your biological family for a family you create of like-minded people, so be it. If that means taking the slings and arrows for daring to mention that raising a child by yourself is not a good idea then so be it.
**By the way save all of your religious pontificating for when Gina comes back. I'm not going to have this post derailed by any anti-LGBT talk with religion as the excuse when 80% of you are having sex, giving birth and are not married. Pot meet kettle.
This isn't about telling someone they have to be anything....except SMART. Wise in their decisions. Once you bring another life into this world it isn't about you anymore. It's about the quality of life for that child. I see far too many people struggling under the burden of not having enough. Not enough time, not enough money, not enough sleep, not enough help. We can't talk about the DBR black men and not think about the origins of their lives. They were once children. Innocent. They were usually abandoned or not raised in the most condusiveenvironments. Yes someone may have tried their best as well but we see the results don't we? After a certain age it's simply too late. So if we're gong to warn women to stay away from them why can't we talk about how they came to be? It's a vicious cycle. It's too late for many many people.
Again, this isn't about you.
This is like throwing a rock at a tidal wave. This is a last ditch effort to see who can be saved. We're never going back to the economic highs of the 1990's. The entire financial system was propped up on lies. Unless you have at least $1M in assets and can liquidate it, who's really safe? We're all trying to live, so why not live as well as we can? Multiple streams of income are necessary. Children require a lot of time and expense. They are an investment. Some people don't put any thought into the type of life they are able to provide them. People have pets they treat better. In fact a lot of people have pets but never take them to the vet or the groomer or to obedience school. They just do whatever they feel like, feeding the pet whatever they think will fill their bellies with little nutrition in mind. Some people treat their children with the same careless attitude.
This is radical talk to not only suggest but TELL black women to get out of the dysfunctional "black community" mentality. It's a death trap of poor residential neighborhoods were crimes against humanity are happening EVERY DAY. You know this because you read this blog! It's a death trap of out of order thinking where the dysfunctional has become the norm. It's a death trap when people will fight you to take away their poison. No other group categorized by the CDC is suffering the way black girls and women are. The CDC - which stands for Center for Disease Control by the way - is tracking our demise. Think about that. They have it all plainly listed on spreadsheets.
If this was happening to white women other whites would have stepped in and called attention to it. If the OOW birth rate keeps increasing for them they may. Of course those women are thought to be part of the lower classes and sexing black men so they may be left to their own devices as well.
For all of you who want to stay in your "Cone of Silence" and in the "Land of Denial" go ahead. YOUR experiences may be different. That's not what's the typical for most black girls.This isn't about you, it's for THEM. We have a small window of opportunity to get a message out and I don't have time to argue semantics, degrees of oppression, why properly crediting African American heritage is correct (since it usually involves a self-sacrificing WOMAN) and other points of contention someone wants to come up with.
Are you really in support of black women and girls (with all the necessary accountability) or are you more invested in being "right" and holding on to your totems?
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Reader Comments (60)
**picking up the phone to call GEICO**
"Um, is my blog insured for fire damage? Because my guest poster just pulled out an oil drum full of gasoline
and lit a match."
Here's the thing....and it's just my opinion....white people actually DON'T police themselves. They don't have to. In every community there is a white ghetto. There are white folks who act like they just stepped out of the movie Gone Baby Gone. There are whole communities that might be referred to (not by me) as white trash.
Here's the difference: they're not seen as representing the whole community. They don't put out music glorifying their lifestyles that suburban white kids eat up and consider representative of their "white" experience. In fact, the term "white trash" indicates they are outside of the white norm. And if you ask the average white middle-class suburbanite if these people are part of their "community," they'll look at you as if you just grew feathers and laid an egg.
THAT IS WHAT WILL INEVITABLY HAPPEN TO US. Sorry to be one of those "black community is dying" folks, but I think it will, or at the very least split in two. Black folks who work hard, go to school, get married, raise their kids next to folks of all colors who do the same, will get tired of being lumped in with Lil Weezy and dem. They'll look at how Jim and Katie at work go about their day EVERYDAY blissfully unaware of how Lisa and her OOW five kids down in the trailer park is faring, and they'll wonder why they don't have the freedom to do the same. They'll make a point of identifying with the upper- or middle-class community, the liberal or conservative community, the religious community, the academic community, the green community, ANY community other than the one that has become the laughingstock of the nation and whose time may have passed.
I have talked to at least one black person who says this is a good thing. As a student of black lit (and by extension history and art), it breaks my heart to think that maybe we can't go home again. In the absence of the big fights, that is, the Jim Crowesque indignities that make everyone sit up and notice, maybe our united front just falls apart at the seams and we go our separate ways. The indignities we suffer now-a-days are just too easy for folks to ignore. What happens if we take your underlying premise literally and respond just like white folks - by cutting ourselves off by class and deciding that, as far as we're concerned, the only thing we have in common with Sheniqua and her five OOW kids is a shared state of humanity?
Just throwing out thoughts, please be gentle with me.
And THANK YOU for standing up against anti-LGBT posts. It really is time for us to stop being politely silent and start checking each other - I'm tired of us being seen as some of the most intolerant folks around.
As black women and men, we have to step up and stop being victims. My boyfriend and I are becoming avid readers of this website and it generates great discussion just between the two of us. The black community must deal with its problems from within and stop always looking at external sources. For example, people were almost screaming at me when I made the following statement after the Chris Brown/Rihanna incident. I said, "If I had a daughter, she would not be allowed to bring another Chris Brown CD into my house. I think its absurd that R. Kelly still has a career. Again, they just committed crimes against black women, no big deal (said sarcastically)." Oh, my gosh, you would have thought that I denounced God. Blacks cannot afford to emulate the white unity model, in other words, lets stick together no matter what because our skin makes us kin. Blacks MUST become critical thinkers and understand that there are some individuals within our community who will not benefit us as a whole. Does that mean write them off as human beings? No. Never. Some people must be taught. I do not believe that we need to continue to allow the worst aspects of us to dominate the spotlight either.
Those of us who know the REAL deal NEED to be lighting matches under the behinds of these sistas.
To help jump start their noggins. Because too many BW have obviously been asleep at the wheel.
For a variety of well known reasons. Often with the best of intentions. For the so called "greater good".
Basically, when BW know better - and know the UNvarnished truth "straight no chaser" - a certain percentage of them will do better.
Black women have been encouraged by the "bc" to disbelieve what their eyes, ears, hearts, and minds have been telling them for decades.
What their eyes, ears, hearts, and minds have been telling them ALL along.
And, the "bc" has ALSO encouraged BW to blame the dysfunctionality on OUTSIDE forces. Especially white folks, and most especially WM.
And before anyone goes there, this mess CAN'T be blamed on slavery because...
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,914677,00.html
By analyzing slave registers, marriage records during Reconstruction and later census data, Gutman found that the two-parent household and long-lasting marriages have been typical among blacks for most of their American experience. In the slave quarters, marital fidelity was highly regarded and defended, but premarital sex was tolerated, and no stigma was attached to illegitimacy. Except when marriages were broken by the sale of one spouse, the clear tendency was for stable, long-lasting slave marriages. In some cases, marriages even survived successful escapes by one spouse. Gutman quotes a Natchez, Miss., slave overseer who said that slaves who outran the owners' dogs would usually stay in the vicinity and risk recapture to see their families again.
Fictive Aunts. Slaves, unlike their owners, says Gutman, almost never married their cousins, suggesting that blacks were not emulating white marriage customs but possibly following ancient West African kinship patterns. Other records indicate a strong sense of family: children were commonly named after parents and grandparents, and slaves often retained the last name of their former slaveowner to keep alive the sense of black family solidarity. When wholesale shifting of slaves broke up families, blacks tended to create fictive aunt, uncle and cousin relationships to keep the kinship ideal alive.
Gutman finds the same strong sense of marriage and the extended family (including grandparents, cousins and other relatives) in the postwar years and well into the 20th century. By 1925, says Gutman, migration and urbanization had shifted many tasks of the basic family unit to the extended family, "but at all times—and in all settings—the typical black household (always a lower-class household) had in it two parents and was not 'unorganized and disorganized.' "
This MADNESS was not always so. It is a fairly recent phenomenon. I'd say in the last 40 - 50 years.
Regardless of what caused the demise, GROWING numbers of BW aren't falling for that okey doke BULL stuff anymore.
We know who the enemy is and he ain't white.
The enemy lies within the "community".
The good thing is, in 2009 BW are free to join ANY community and form NEW INTENTIONAL communities with whoever they please.
Sista's don't have to be physically and/or psychologically tied to anything they don't wish to be apart of.
We can be selective. Just like every other woman on the planet.
No fires yet Gina. I think people are still too dazed from the knock-out drag-out over OOW motherhood and "what it all means" argument. I've got an extinguisher though.
Pecola: Yes white DO police themselves. Just the fact that you are able to make a distinction of the have and have nots amongst whites means they've policed themselves successfully. Anytime someone steps to far out they are ready to snatch them. It happened when David Letterman went too far with the Palin "joke". He immediately found himself in trouble and he didn't understand why at first. He figured it out eventually. Yes I usually cover LGBT issues at my blog. I fight for justice across the board and am not hearing any of that religious as totem nonsense from the Mon-Sat evening sinners. My words may be hard hitting but I am very soft-spoken and congenial!!
Zion: This is the same argument we've had for 40+years and nothing has changed. A few individuals have done very well while the masses have slid into a pit and are taking everyone else down with them. This isn't about emulating whites: it's about emulating the NORMS of society and decent behavior. You can't teach anything to someone who doesn't want to learn. Since no one ever wants to admit there's a problem how can there be introspective? When disease has set in you have to cut off the limb to save the body. That is going to happen with a number of blacks. They will be part of a permanent underclass and ignored.
JJ: when you have something constructive and uplifting to say feel free to resubmit. You will not be hijacking any more threads with your disruptive nonsense. You don't agree with anything being said here so you should find other like-minded people to have online conversations with.
"Anytime someone steps to far out they are ready to snatch them. It happened when David Letterman went too far with the Palin “joke”. He immediately found himself in trouble and he didn’t understand why at first"
Yes, but I have to draw a distinction here. The white folks who jumped to Palin's defense had nothing to say when Hillary Clinton was being called a b****, c***...well let's just say everything but a child of God. My point is that they weren't defending Palin for the purpose of defending the dignity of white womanhood. They were defending a fellow CONSERVATIVE. That was an uprising of the conservative community, NOT the white community. If it had anything to do with defending whiteness, they would have gone to war over Hillary. Quite frankly, the liberal white folks over at dailykos thought the whole Letterman-Palin flap was quite funny.
I remain unconvinced that whites police their community. They don't care about the white people in trailer parks, in the backhills of Kentucky, in militias, sleeping on park benches, or having babies OOW. The communities they police are based on class, politics, community (neighborhoods), or shared values (i.e. upper- or middle-class, religious, conservative, etc.). There simply is no white community (if so, what are its politics? who are its leaders?), or at least not one that I've ever seen.
I have grew up in the black /ghetto/gentrified neighborhood in the northeast and I live in one now. I never affliated myself with the Pookie and Ray Ray, I have never invested anytime in any friendships or relationships with such individuals, nothing more than an a hi and passing jokes. I never saw myself in them or defined my blackness through them.
I think a person who constantly finds themselves in the company of such individuals need to look in the mirror, b/c even in the hood everybody is not bad. I don't know how anyone with any decent amount of common sense would let such individuals into their life in any kind of serious capacity.
The first people to offer me drugs were white and middle class. Good judgment of character is essential wherever you go in life.
Also, the black community was primarily destroyed by crack as well as the welfare system that enabled these crack addicted folks to a certain degree. And these folks were not born in 1988 they were born in 1948 and 58 when supposedly things were allegedly all good. We must have an honest discussion about black culture and pathologies instead of acting like everything was o.k until 1980. Something made a generation of folks who grew up in the 50s pick up a crack pipe. Because the after effects is what we have today.
Pecola: Your confusing two very separate situations years apart. Letterman's joke was directed at Palin's daughter and attacked her virtue. If you don't think whites police themselves you need to do some research on power dynamics. Keeping some of them poor is part of the efforts of a few at maintaining their wealth and control. They would never allow the entire collective to go the way blacks are. Each individual ethnic group has a vested interest in assisting each other. Blacks do not. Of course observing the fact that whites have maintained dominance and all the ways they've done this should be enough proof.
Naima: Of course there are decent blacks across all social strata. When they knew they needed each other for survival blacks were better able to hold things together. The men knew they needed the women. Post Civil Rights not so much. That's where you can pinpoint the mass defection, abandonment and rejection of black men. If there was another time in history where this occurred I'd love to hear about it. Crack didn't destroy people, people who smoked crack and threw away everything did. It was all still a choice. Yes it was diabolical of the gov't but if blacks had been working in concert with each other no outside entity would have been able to infiltrate so easily.
@ fdow
Amen, with that I have no further comment accept...the revolutionary consciousness of people reside in its women, that will determine where we are in the stream of history as a people!
Crack didn’t destroy people, people who smoked crack and threw away everything did
Obviously, you see I didn't mention the government b/c I know that at the end of the day it is up to the individual. Someone could drop a pound of crack at my doorstep and I am not gonna smoke it. People turn to drugs for psychological and emotional reasons. Something dysfunctional was going on in some of these so called perfect intact black families of the 40s and 50s. For folks to feel that they could just throw it all way in 2 generations. People were married but was dad abusive physically or sexually? Did dad have another family somewhere also and the kids knew about it? Did mom turn her head just so she can keep a man around? Did women who grow up in these circumstances who were adults in the 70s and 80s said forget it I don't need a husband.
I don't want to bring celebrities in this, but I think Joe Jackson represents a lot of fathers of his generation. He was married to the mother of his kids and he raised them, but that wasn't a healthy household. I think a lot of black folks need a check up from the neck up.
"if blacks had been working in concert with each other no outside entity would have been able to infiltrate so easily."
My point exactly but this didn't start in the last 10 or 20 years. I know the internet has enabled folks to hear horrible stories from all over the country but this is the results of decades of dysfunction
The communities they police are based on class, politics, community (neighborhoods), or shared values (i.e. upper- or middle-class, religious, conservative, etc.). There simply is no white community (if so, what are its politics? who are its leaders?), or at least not one that I’ve ever seen.
Then question whether you've been around White "communities" versus whether you've been inside "White" communities. There really is a "White" community. They might not all go to the same church and they might not assemble or gather in the same manner, but TRUST that they enforce their social constructs. Formally AND informally.
Have you gone up against a suburban PTA? TRUST that they enforce boundaries. Have you ever gone up against a home owner's association? TRUST that they enforce boundaries. Have you ever been invited out to play golf with the true movers and shakers in their community? TRUST that they enforce boundaries. How many times have you been asked to join the Junior League or DAR? Trust that they enforce boundaries.
Just because you haven't been on the inside, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. White people who operate outside the constructs of whatever White community they belong to pay a hefty price.
Its interesting that you refer to trailer parks :) Even trailer parks have rules regulations and boundaries. And trust that the Junior League ain't swinging open its doors to wave in their sistren from the trailer parks. They aren't rationalizing with the values and view points of people they do not agree with.
They aren't letting the people from the trailer park dictate the values of the larger community.
The thing I love most about Gina's posts and why I come to this blog is that Gina doesn't just outline problems but she offers possible solutions.
That's something that's very rare on Black run blogs.
We all know what the problems are. We have heard people go on about the problems in the Black communities for ever. But what are the solutions to the problems outlined in this post?
If Black men, as you say, hate Black women then what's the solution? Should we just write off Black men? Or should we find ways, along with the Black men who don't hate us, to change this.
If Black women have problems relating to each other in positive ways then maybe there is a way to change that too. Maybe we begin to educate our daughters so that they don't fall prey to the mass media portrayals of us.
If the media depicts us as being dysfunctional then what's the solution? I for one canceled my cable because I didn't want to give my money to Viacom.
If our kids are dropping out of school then maybe it's time to stop hoping that one day the government will educate out kids. There are thousands of Black churches in this country, maybe if churches formed groups of churches and pooled their resources we could build our own schools.
My point is that this post lacks what I love about What About Out Daughters. It doesn't provide possible solutions.
Anyway this isn't an attack on the author of this post. I'm just adding my thoughts to the discussion.
fdow,
You are going under the assumption that most of those masses do not want to learn. Some of those people really do not know. For example, as an educator, believe it or not, I cannot just spout off my classroom rules to my students and be done with it. I have to maintain parental contact, you want to know why? Unfortunately, everyone has not been taught the same values, therefore, if I want to see a certain result, I have to try to teach what I expect. Will everyone grasp a hold, no? I cannot fairly write off a student or a parent, until I have done my part. When my part is complete, then we can have a conversation about accountability.
Well since you asked Monie.
One clear solution is to develop the steps that would have to be taken for like-minded black women to establish our own ACTUP.
So now that we know what we need, what next?
Well first, in my home state, it costs $25 to start a nonprofit. So we're literally $25 away from a legal entity that would house such an organization.
We'd need at least 3 board members.
We hosting for a site averages about $7 a month. so for a year's worth of hosting we're talking $84 dollars.
The social networking tols for organizing are free. The tools for fundraising are free on the front end with services charges coming on the back end.
There would have to be a group of people dedicated to carrying out the essential tasks of running such a thing. Color of Change operates with about 5 people.
The post DOES propose a solution. It just doesn't hand hold. :) I think ppl take for granted that I've gone to school for an extra 3 years and have almost a decade of experience in using rules, regulations, and informal processes to get what ppl want or advising them on what to do to get what they want. Its my job to tell people what they have to do to get what they want its also my role to force them to be realistic about what they can get. i don't have time going after a futile objective which is why it grates on my nerves when people march around in a circle when they should be picking up a dad gum phone.
I'm enjoying my blogcation BTW. :)
fdow,
Let me further reiterate that my "Emulating Whites" phrase is being taken out of context. When I am speaking about emulating whites, I am talking about the same tired line, "We need to stick together because white folk do no matter what." That keeps us (blacks) as a people from being critical thinkers and watching out for our self-interest.
"If Black men, as you say, hate Black women then what’s the solution? Should we just write off Black men? Or should we find ways, along with the Black men who don’t hate us, to change this."
The solution is to ONLY associate with, date, mate, and procreate with men regardless of "race" who SHOW you in word and most importantly deed that they DO love you, cherish you, support you and are willing to protect you.
It is plain common sense - and a matter of survival - to right off ANY man, woman, or child - again regardless of "race"- who hates you.
BW don't have ANY business around ANYONE - I don't care who they are - who hates them.
To willingly place yourself in the presence of someone who viscerally hates you is SUICIDAL.
Why do it, when one doesn't have to?
It's simply not logical.
It's really not rocket science.
@Gina
Well just give me an address and I'll contribute $25.00! And then I'll also donate my time, maybe start a branch in my city.
Some people have a gift Gina. You have a gift for outlining solutions in ways that are simple and doable. We all can't be leaders or the ones who get things going but we all can play the part that we can. I'm willing.
And I'm glad you'r enjoying your blog break.
@Felicia
"...The solution is to ONLY associate with, date, mate, and procreate with men regardless of “race” who SHOW you in word and most importantly deed that they DO love you, cherish you, support you and are willing to protect you..."
Yeah that's the most immediate solution but what about the women without the willpower or ability to get away? That's my point. Yes we can write these men off but that still leaves some of our sisters at risk. Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we tried to change the way these men thought and behaved?
Zion: I am not only under the "impression" they don't want to learn I have been told this outright by numerous ppl on my blog and here the past three days. They are fine just the way are. That OOW rate means nothing. How dare I suggest that what they're doing has any negative impact. I am wrong, wrong, wrong. Everything is great and has never been better.
Gem2001: Glad you're enjoying your blogcation
Monie: I was going to answer you but Gina has so graciously done so. I will add this. The solutions are clearly listed but I cannot do the comprehending for you. As she said I'm not here to lead anyone to answers. If you have to be guided you are not choosing freedom you are just following.
1. leave the mindset of the dysfunctional "black community" behind
2. correctly address things as they are
3. be your own person and not live according to someone else's standards
4. make informed, life-affirming, long-lasting, sustaining choices
5. Anyone who wants to start a chapter the door is open
Now that you've had the emotional payoff for putting me in my "place" what exactly are you going to do to help improve the life of an endangered black girl?
Will you continue to pick apart my very clear suggestions or will you come back here to tell us all of the things you've done that have tangible effects?
@gem2001 - Almost sounds like your suggesting we take it back to the turn of the 19th century...the days when black women decided that if anyone was going to salvage the dignity of the black race it would be its women and there was an explosion of black women's clubs as a result. I think I'll go find out what the NACW is up to these days. I honestly have no idea.
@Pecola that would be yes. We act like the civil rights movement was a movement of millions. It wasn't it was probably about 40-60 people in various states ( I'm being generous) most of whom remain in obscurity to this day).
A single legal team and law school basically dismantled Jim Crow. The Montgomery bus boycott was organized by Black women. there is example after example.
We've gotten away from that because Civil Rights became and industry and not a social calling. We directed all of our resources at pepetuating organizations just so we could say we had an organization. Look at the NAACP burning trough massive overhead that could go to direct services.
@fdow
"...Now that you’ve had the emotional payoff for putting me in my “place” what exactly are you going to do to help improve the life of an endangered black girl?..."
Well I'm sorry you took it that way. That wasn't the point of my comment. I'm not here to do battle or get off by belittling someones point of view. I apologize and thanks for the list.
"...Will you continue to pick apart my very clear suggestions or will you come back here to tell us all of the things you’ve done that have tangible effects?..."
And I do what I've done since I've been an adult. I try to be apart of making change, no matter how small. As of now I tutor kids at a neighborhood after school program. I do this twice a week. Maybe that's not what you meant but that's what I can do until I can do more.
Monie: I just have to add. The point is for YOU to take your own actions. Even the idea of you contributing $25 to an org but expecting someone else to set it up is relying on others to do the work. YOU start the organization!
We are not here to "rescue" but to inform. You're still thinking with the black woman is supposed to save alla our people mindset. NO!!!!! Each woman is responsible for herself and only herself (unless she has a kid)
Any woman who doesn't want hear the message is to be left to her own devices.
Again, this is about adults making adult decisions and being responsible for themselves and the ones under their care.
@Monie,
Men listen to men. They don't listen to women.
Of ALL people black women should realize this by now.
Boys regardless of "race" reach a certain point in life where they don't listen to their mothers. After all, when they grow up they're going to be men. Not women. Therefore They're interested in listening to their fathers, and since most black boys don't have fathers, they listen to the other males in their immediate environments.
Many of whom are damaged for a variety of reasons that don't much matter any more.
These other males in their immediate environments BENEFIT from these mentally savaged BW. These victims of hate.
Once a woman has her self-esteem/self-worth broken, she's easier to manipulate.
You can get free sex, food, shelter, whatever from her.
You can use her up.
That's what's happening. And the good BM ALSO benefit from this sorry state of affairs.
Because most men - even good ones - are going to take advantage of whatever is offered for free.
Many BW have been offering themselves up for free.
Men don't care what trauma caused a woman to devalue herself.
Their just going to take advantage.
Again, MEN socialize and check the behavior of other MEN. IF they care.
Obviously not enough good BM care. Because the dysfunctional beat and misogyny against BW by DBRBM goes on...
Now those BM who DO care are more than able to handle this task themselves.
They don't need any help from BW.
Men don't listen to women. They listen to men.
Feminism did it. As if you didn't know. Reaping the whirlwind now.
@fdow
Okay I get what you are saying. I'm just not comfortable leaving some of my sisters in the lurch. Most of the women who read this blog can indeed take care of themselves. So it really isn't about me or us here it's about the women who for many reasons don't have the tools or resources to fend for themselves. I can't go for the every women for herself way of thinking.
Also I'm 25 and maybe I am looking to older more experienced women to lead. But that's for now, my turn to lead will come.
@Felicia
Well then for our own good we need to find ways for men to change the men who are problematic for us. That's something that can be done.
Although I will say that men seem very willing to listen to a woman who has what they want but isn't giving it to him with no strings attached.
Tell It: I allowed your comment through so you could explain yourself. What is feminism as you're defining it and what did it "do" exactly?
Monie: Ah no you don't get to retreat now! You are being called to report for duty. See when you talk smack you're going to get your hand tapped, lol. Age has nothing to do with displaying leadership skills or for engaging in an action of importance.
Everyone: I have a post that I'd like to share. It's a one-time thing. I has flame retardant on it, lol!
http://swordofgoliath.blogspot.com/2009/07/jezebel-darling-who-lied-to-you.html
community (noun) -- a group of people living together in one place, especially, one practicing common ownership; all the people living in a particular area or place; a particular area or place considered together with its inhabitants
The above is taken from the American Oxford Dictionary. It is the first definition, amongst about eight or ten, for the word "community." Although, the nationwide lot of blacks are, have been considered to be, one community (by blacks, themselves, and non-blacks), the truth is that we are not. Yes, as you go farther down the page, you find that one of the definitions for "community" encompasses people who have, often, only one thing in common: skin colour/race, religion, sexual-preference, etc. -- but that is one of the weaker definitions. If we go by the first (and strongest) definition of the word, then there is no nationwide black community. (If there were ever a black community, then historically, it wouldn't have been that blacks in Texas found out they were emancipated from slavery two years after all the other blacks were told of the Emancipation Proclamation.) The "black community" is a myth. I, for one, prefer to toss myths in the trash bin. Although, often cold, mean, unkind, and ruthless: Reality is the better place to park one's mind.
If some BW out there wants to spend her time attempting to find a way to encourage good BM (who are currently SILENT on these issues that are literally KILLING BW and black children) to encourage DBRBM to stop hating BW and black children, she can go ahead.
That's something many BW for decades have been trying to do and have failed miserably at. Again, because men don't listen to men.
But, if an individual BW wishes to give it one more try, that's her business.
However, IMO for the majority of BW's own good, we need to STOP beating a dead horse. Especially when there are ALREADY men in the global village who don't need to be "taught" how to love, respect, cherish, and defend a BW.
There are ALREADY men who don't need to be "taught" how to be a father.
NEVER forget this ladies.
Why would a woman even want a man who has to be taught the basics of normal masculine behavior? The basics of common decency?
Now if some BW out there still considers it her mission to try to help deprogram the DBRBM out there. Hey that's her thing.
It's a free country and we can all do what we want to do.
"Again, because men don’t listen to men."
I obviously meant men don't listen to women.
Ladies, basically we're all going to do what makes sense to us.
I would just hope that the young women don't get stuck in the same old "save all of our people" TRAP that older BW fell for.
MANY older BW are regretting the years they waisted involved in movements and mindsets that left NOTHING tangible for them in the end.
There's NO reason for a young black woman to suffer the same fate. Not in 2009.
@gina - I never answered your previous post.
"They aren’t letting the people from the trailer park dictate the values of the larger community."
There it is. There may be white communities (plural), but there is no one white community (singular), that is, one pervasive white collective that sets the boundaries and polices the behaviors of the whole. The folks at the Junior League aren't breaking their necks to reduce OOW births among lower-class Appalachian white women. The "movers and shakers" aren't losing sleep at night because there are ignorant skinheads in Michigan or welfare-consuming white polygamists in Utah. They know those other (undesirable) whites don't reflect on them. They know those other whites are not even in the same plane of existence, let alone the same community.
We stress about what black folks are doing in the ghetto because 1) we (and everyone else) have come to consider all blacks as being members of the same community (the black community) and therefore 2) their actions reflect upon us. What I'm suggesting is this: now that the need for a united front is less obvious, we, like our fellow white citizens, will break into "communities." Plural. And sometimes I wonder if that's not for the best.
And fdow, 14 people showed up to protest at Letterman's studios. 14. There was no giant uprising of white anger. It was manufactured outrage primarily coming from Palin herself and a handful of Fox News pundits. It wasn't exactly the white community coming together in righteous indignation.
Pecola: You still don't get it and it really isn't something that can be explained when you've got a wall between you and comprehension. Perhaps you'll be able to revisit this again at a later date with a fresh perspective. We must carry on though in the meantime.
Yeah this post is definitely fire. Understand, most black ENABLING women come out of the woodwork to explain black male sociopaths, rapists, murders, and black men who hate black women. Because naturally, everything in the world is the black woman's fault. If only black women would nurture black men more. If only black women would continue to break their backs and sacrifice more for their families. So, yes soo many black women are a hateful, hostile bunch towards other black women and society in general because they fail to demand respect from black men and FAIL miserably in acknowledging a black man's short cummings.
What these fools fail to understand is the very same men they defend HATE them. There is a good book called Men who hate women and the Women who Love them. It was a hit awhile ago. Written by white folks for basically white folks. But it apply describes the black community. You've got nothing but a bunch of black women running around defending rapists, murders, child molesters, and misogynists.
I particpated in a blog talk show a few years ago. I was taken aback by the black male hatred directed at black women. Caller after caller, spewed every negative stereo type or experience about black women. Meanwhile, sistas spoke glowingly about black men and only want to be with black men, the black male callers and black radio internet DJs spoke so NEGATIVELY about black women. Surprisingly, the black women agreed with them. Black women are a mess.
No blog writer, too many black women are hateful bunch who ONLY acknowledge the perfection of black men. Even if these black men detest them.
"You still don’t get it and it really isn’t something that can be explained when you’ve got a wall between you and comprehension."
Well that was insulting. And I am disappointed. For a moment there, I thought we were having a pretty good discussion on a highly relevant topic. Apparently not. There's no "wall" between me and comprehension, I simply have a different point of view than you do. I assure you that I am a very educated woman, and comprehension is a strong point. And I assumed this was a discussion in which varying opinions were permissible. If you are only looking to have your own point of view echoed back to you then yes, please, move on. I'd hate for my posts to be the sour note in your rousing chorus of "amens."
Miss Thing: Ok I'm trying to be truthful not light myself or anyone else up! We have to move along with peaceful minds and positivity. We're just talking about taking care of ourselves better and being focused on that. We're all at different steps of the process.
Pecola: This isn't about you!!! Your reaction is your own choice. Taking half of my reply to form your outrage is also manipulative. This is not a hand-holding post or hand-holding time. Gina & I have both have taken the time to respond to you where you have pushed back on this ideology. We are not like-minded enough which is why you disagree. That's the whole point. The message is for those who are willing and able to hear it. Feel free to participate or not without being disruptive. Since you disagree it has been duly noted, thank you for your time and we don't need to engage further.
fdow said:
"If you have to be guided you are not choosing freedom you are just following. "
Fdow, some folks are happy where they are and are continuing to progress to where they want to go. However, they want to help others.
I am one such person. But I don't really know what a whole group needs and so I admit that I follow on this.
Blog Administrator Comments: I'm going to temporarily remove my blogcation hat ( sorry Aretha)to say that IMHO the best comments threads are the ones with a little back and forth. Reading a bunch of comments from people who all agree with each other gets old really quickly.
That being said, there are people who are true trolls hell bent on carrying the conversation off topic just for kicks. On the other hand, there are people who don't quite get the precise point I want to make and switch the debate from one subject to the other, I may refer to them as obfuscation and redirectionists, but they do tend to force me to remain focussed. Then there are people who have a fundamental philosophical disagreement with you and nothing you can say will change their minds and the only solution is for one to tire of the other.
You might want to keep your powder dry for the real trolls cause you ain't seen nothing yet.
Miriam: If ppl are continuing to progress on their own they aren't being guided. They're following the path of their own choosing.
That response was in a specific reply to Monie about her asking someone else to start a group. The point is that other ppl have to start initiating things for themselves and stop waiting for someone else to stick their necks out.
I realize that is the default position for many. If I was looking to take on that type of responsibility I'd be looking for funders and other silent contributors for my ventures. It has value.
We can all contribute in our own way but we cannot all stand by watching idly.
So I have a question as we continue this thread.
I'm trying to keep some semblance of order after Monday's thread which made my head want to explode. One of the earlier commenters from Monday was absolutely being a troll.
I do realize we're all coming from different places but if there isn't a minimum level of agreement how are we going to have a conversation? If people don't respond well to hearing criticism of their criticism then how is that any different than being a deliberate obstructionist who doesn't want the discussion?
How does that facilitate a conversation versus unfettered chaos? Is it lack of understanding, missing a point or does it come down to a message being presented that people just don't want to hear?
What are exactly the point of these posts, is it to educate folks or preach to the choir. WAOD is usually a very educational blog and you actually learn something or see things in a different way.
If one wants to start a movement you have to be able to defend your beliefs other than black men hate us and marry another race. There have been movements that I disagree with, but they are able to frame their arguments in a way that you would at least give them a listen and say they have good points. The right wing was good at this at one point. Sometimes it how you word things and how you communicate to people. If someone has questions maybe you can suggest a book they can read or something and not accuse them of trying to obstruct your movement.
I am not one of those enabling BW that you guys talk about, but I think you may be able to get some off the fence if you are careful with your tone. Because if the tone is not changed you will just be labeled a bitter, man hating black woman and no sistas will want to support or at least respect the movement. (Notice how reluctant many BW are to being called feminist b/c of those reasons)
Because a person may disagree immediately but who knows the light bulb might go off later, might not. I know a few sistas who are with men not up to par and they are close to the edge but not quite there yet.
You know how when Jehovas Witness nag you and you say no thank you, they are always still nice and offer you reading material.
And how can youth be convinced? Because too many BW can't even make 23 w/o being caught in that cycle of raising a kid w/o a father emotionally and financially.
And didn't WW who raised half black children try the not raising their kids around the black "community" thing, and didn't most of their kids end craving some kind of relationship or kinship with the black "community" when they got older?
@fdow First, you have lots of different options as a blogger. I actually don't think the thread from Monday was all that out of control. In fact, I think as a blogger, the thread was a great success because A) you heard from a lot of new voices and I also heard from some voices that have been quiet for a while. So the mere fact that the thread hit 134 comments doesn't mean it was a failure or out of control. yes, the person i suspect you are referring to was being herself, but it was also backed by the fact that she is a single mother and no matter how you package the pill, its a hard pill to swallow.
An out of control thread is when people take it back to middle school and start calling each other names. An out of control thread is when I post about a dead baby and somehow people pop in to drag the conversation off to talking about something random.
If you think enough has been said on a topic, then just click the box that turns off the comments, but the size does not indicate the lack of content or quality.
You got people talking. isn't that why you posted?
Second, I tried the whole "I'mma control the conversation" thing, it will drive you crazy. So you have to make a call. Is this person truly a troll? If so, blacklist them and move on. their comments will go directly to the spam filter, you'll never see it.
If its a person that is on topic, but just annoying, but you feel the thread is just repeating itself, then just turn off the comments.
If you TRULY don't want to hear other people's opinions, then just don't allow any comments at all. i was sick of hearing peoples whining and complaining abou BET, but I still wanted to talk about it so I didn't allow comments at all.
WAOD readers are heavy hitters. To walk up in this comments section takes confidence and courage so you gone have a hard time controlling them.
In time you will find your zen you blogging chi grasshopper. You will learn which people to ignore and which to engage and when to engage.
I don't run my blog comments section like other bloggers. That's a conscious decision I made after i got surrounded by a bunch of YES WOMEN who basically YESSED me right off a cliff. Some of you remember those days.
Therefore in a sense, the resident contrarians are my concience. They may annoy the heck out of you, but sometimes they really do pull you back from a cliff... though I would never acknowledge it public ally because that would embolden them.
You might want to take a look at one of the most difficult posts I ever had to write as a blogger. http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/2008/02/the-end-of-an-error-trying-not-to-be-a-mean-girlor-woman-for-those-who-are-sensitive/
Now I know a lot of other Black women bloggers frown on how I run my comments section. They think I am too permissive or let to many people with OBVIOUS agendas run a muck. There is a reason for this. YES MEN and YES WOMEN are far greater a danger to a blogger than the resident contrarians.
As a blogger, you ARE GOD. It doesn't show up on the screen if you don't want it to. You can bann people, erase or modify their comments, shut them down. You are the supreme ruler of all you survey.
But trust me that absolute power is not a privlege, its a burden. Wilding it wisely is a constant challenge. That commenter that you might think is an annoying pest MIGHT be the one that keeps you from going completely off the deep end.
I learned the hard way. The fact that you're posing the question means you're smarter than I was when I first started. I sense the force is strong in you! You will do well
PPS. You might want to read the name of the commenter from a year and a half ago that triggered that post. I didn't remember it at the time, but its the someone you're familiar with from this thread.
@ Naima
If you say anything other than BM are the "bestest most wonderful men in the world" you will be labeled as man hating. A lot of BM posturing is a result of the fact many BM have fragile egos. BM can say cruel and vicious things about BW but we are we expected to sit quietly and respond with roses and kisses.
We have to be able to speak our minds and express our feelings without fear. Truths have to be told. I want to hear the thoughts of people who want to speak honestly about how BW and BM contribute to our societal ills.
And I love the fact that readers here take action.
It is not about hating BM, but rather talking about behaviours that are healthy and outside of societal norms. Sharing answers and thoughts on how to change behaviors that are killing the black community.
I would be thrilled for there to be a comfortable BC. In my mind in a functioning black community my 80 year old Grandmother would be able to slowly walk down the street to the deli and 8pm to get a carton of milk, if she so chose.
Pick any BC with a MLK Blvd. and let a Granny walk down the street after dark and see what happens.
OK already. I didn't want to post again. Really. Because this is going all off topic and it's really not necessary. Last one. Seriously. And then I'm back to what I'm supposed to be doing right now which ain't this. ;-)
I really don't want to be thought of as the resident contrarian. I'm laughing as I write that but no, seriously, I don't want to be. It's just that I am a mom of 3 kids, a grad student, and I no longer walk that well. Which is to say that I'm busy. So, fdow, when I read your post, had I been talking aloud, it would have sounded like, "Mmmm-hmmm...yep...right on....hallelujah...preach it sista....ehhh, wait a sec..." For the most part, I don't have the time or energy to post, "Yep, you're right, keep it up girl" on every post I agree with. I'm FAR more likely to step in and point out the issues I think might need a little more discussion.
In this case, yes we have a community issue. OOW birthrate is out of control, and most of us don't even know what a cohesive, functioning family looks like. Sign, co-sign, we're in agreement. BUT, can we really assume the white community is a functioning model that we might emulate? Don't they, in fact, throw their poor and uneducated under a bus? And aren't some of us moving as far away from the concept of "black community" as we can get (see redcatbiker above)? Is the black community in danger of dissolving conceptually? How do we get middle-class blacks to care about Shanequa's struggles and her children's bleak outlook if they don't even want to be associated with Shanequa, let alone give her a hand?
Maybe we're really doing something quite radical, in trying to remain a cohesive community across classes. We've done it in the past, true, but we did it most successfully when being black in America could get you strung from a tree, damn your bank account. Or when rich black and poor black were rubbing shoulders on the same crappy train car. But now, when there are few nooses and no black seats on the bus, we're going to move the educated, classed blacks among us to take a vested interest in those who are not? We're not going to sit in our suburban communities, on the boards of our homeowners associations, etc. and shake our heads at poor blacks like white folks do to poor whites? That's actually pretty radical, IMO.
I only got snippy because I felt that you got personal. Disagree with me. Tell me I'm offtrack or that you think we're going in circles. But please don't insult my powers of comprehension.
And, I'm sure it didn't, but in case it did, please don't let our conversation discourage you. You're doing great. Please let the conversation move on.
Gina: Thank you. I am still learning and I appreciate the experience.
Pecola: I don't comprehend why my use of the word comprehend has been assigned the meaning of lack of intellectual capability when I've been using it to mean understanding of perspective. So let's be clear. I also don't equate social norms with whiteness or believe in blacks' inferiority just their refusal to adhere to standards that would benefit them.
Naima wrote:
"Something dysfunctional was going on in some of these so called perfect intact black families of the 40s and 50s. For folks to feel that they could just throw it all way in 2 generations. People were married but was dad abusive physically or sexually? Did dad have another family somewhere also and the kids knew about it? Did mom turn her head just so she can keep a man around? Did women who grow up in these circumstances who were adults in the 70s and 80s said forget it I don’t need a husband."
Naima, your posts on this topic really resonate with me, especially the snipped portion.
fdow ,
Zion: I am not only under the “impression” they don’t want to learn I have been told this outright by numerous ppl on my blog and here the past three days. They are fine just the way are. That OOW rate means nothing. How dare I suggest that what they’re doing has any negative impact. I am wrong, wrong, wrong. Everything is great and has never been better.
-------------------
My only problem with what you have written is again, you are working under assumption. Who said that people were fine the way they were? Christ calls us to tell each other the truth in love. Will we reach everyone, no. It is our responsiblity for those of us who profess to know a better way to try to inform those who really do not know. I cannot accept that everyone does not want to know a better way. fdow, let me give you an example. I had a student whose cousin dealt drugs as a way to make a living. I got the same old story, "I couldn't make it legally, so I made it illegally." I asked my student, "Why are you celebrating someone who is destorying an entire community?" He said, Ms. Zion, how is he destroying a community when he lives in a big house, and is getting paid? I asked that student to think about the people whose lives are being ruined by what he is selling, think about the crime rate in that community just to supply a habit, and my student had to admit that he had never thought of it that way. I don't know if I "changed his world," but you have to start somewhere. Please fdow, never lower your standards, keep understanding that there is something wrong, but I don't want you to get into that bitterness that could cause you to write off people. Teach my people is what Jesus would say. Don't you think as a teacher I get sick of hearing my girls have contests for who will have their baby first and by whom? I can't change the world by myself, but I started with those girls. Teach.
OK, Faith's entire post ain't nothing but the truth. I've enjoyed everyone else's contributions, too. Congratulations on your epiphany. My own ephiphany came during the OJ trial; black women blindly supporting a "nolo contendere" wife beater who wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire.
Faith wrote:
"Let’s talk about the way black women interact with each other. Since so many are still living the dysfunctional “black community” lie they’re usually competing with each over some variation of a DBR. They rush to buy relationship books from black men, even men who’ve been married three times and cheated on his last wife with his current one. They defer to these men and are male-identified. They’ll forgive a man for anything short of rape or murder (and sometimes that too) but will cross another black woman off their list for good for any little slight or for having a difference of opinion. They often berate their female children and are extra harsh on them. They don’t warn them of the dangers of their environments or prepare them. They often regard each other with suspicion or are generally dismissive and competitive in other situations not involving men for NO REASON. They often adopt the same DBR behaviors but only when dealing with other."
I'd like to add that these are the very women on whom they rely when abandoned by the DBRBM.