Thursday
Apr022009
Judge Immunizes New York Transit Workers That Watched As a Passenger Was Raped
Thursday, April 2, 2009 at 9:24PM The Blogmother
Yeah you read that title right:
More information about fire arms training. You're on your own ladies!
A Queens judge ruled yesterday that subway employees do not have to do anything but pick up their phones if they see a crime -- as he threw out a suit against the MTA and two workers who did nothing more to stop a rape.
A conductor saw the rape from the window on his train, and a station agent in the booth witnessed a screaming woman being dragged down a staircase inside the desolate 21st Street station of the G line. But neither one left the safety of their assigned posts to help her. Instead, conductor Harmodio Cruz and agent John Koort called the command center to summon cops. NY Post
More information about fire arms training. You're on your own ladies!
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Reader Comments (23)
I expect most people to do nothing, if it's not apathy, its the "stop snitching" mentality or just plain ignorant.
May this woman lose her parenal rights and may her daughter have a chance @ life and sanity.
The only logical conclusion here is that this bit of news signals to criminals that the MTA won't do anything to stop any crime, other than summon the people who are "minutes away when seconds count".
But hey, the MTA employees got to keep their jobs by following protocol, and that's all that counts....right?
i balk at condemning these folks for one reason - they were scared and how could you blame them? i mean, i'm taking the idea that they were not together when they were seeing this, because then that would be cowardice, but it seems close to what police tell folks - don't be a hero. instead of a rape, we could have a rape and three murders, you know? if it were two women who had seen this, would we demand they rush to the rapist, particularly if it was only one woman rushing out to stop it? it's noble and brave, but in this day and age, it's hard to belittle folks who need to watch out for their own safety when people impersonate police, impersonate crimes in order to lure helpers (i.e., people pretending their car has stopped in order to lure drivers to stop and then take their cars). blame the police for not being there and getting there sooner, but the two folks likely did what they were told to do not out of callous disregard but out of a realization that they are not superheroes or police and could make the situation worse.
I wouldn't intevene out of fear of being sued by the rapist for trying to stop the rape.
I guess what it boils down to is we have to decide what kind of a society we are going to become. We may not have a legal obligation to help someone, but we have to decide whether or not to turn a blind eye otherwise.
As for Jason who thinks this is funny, I hope you're laughing when the victim is your mother, sister or daughter.
WOW, I'm actually going to agree with Mike and Jason here. WOW!
Jason isn't making a joke here. In the UK a burglar was able to SUCCESSFULLY sue the man he robbed for shooting him in self defense! The burglar had become disabled due to the injury he sustained so, he sued- and won- the man he attempted to rob. No joke. Granted this is the US and not the UK but we still live in a highly litigious society. Second, the MTA workers did attempt to help the victim by calling the police and other authorities. I can understand their reluctance to want to walk into harms way especially if they were unarmed themselves.
It is not reasonable to expect unarmed employees to intervene with these crazy fools. These fools carry guns, and don't mind using them. What do you expect them to do but call the cops?
I'm the last man to speak about respecting women and all that, but there's no way in the world that I'd watch a woman be raped. I don't care if I didn't like the girl or didn't know her, I'd fight until I couldn't fight anymore to stop any woman, no matter what race, to stop from being raped. If they have guns, fine, so do I. If I didn't have one on me, I still have to go in and try to help. Kill me if you must, but I refuse to live my life as a man scared to help someone. If my mother, grandma, or any woman I care about was being raped I'd want someone to help her......and i wouldn't except any excuses why they didn't.
John Koort and Harmodio Cruz are cowards. Another human being was being attacked right before your eyes. Were you afraid of being hurt? Was that why that you did not help? Then you are a coward. I hope that you have nightmares where you watch an innocent person get dragged down the stairs and you do nothing....no, wait, that was her nightmare. Apparently you couldn't be bothered to care. You're sleeping easy while her entire life has been ripped apart. Cowards. You make me sick.
Can she legally sue them? Who knows? It might have made it worse, but a lot of times these types of criminals just need someone (two men are a great example) to be an example of a stronger force than they are so they can take off, tail tucked.
I appreciate the link posted to the NRA firearm training.
New York City has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the country. If this victim had possessed a firearm and used it to defend herself, it is very likely she would have been charged with something, or sued by her attackers, or BOTH. Anybody remember Bernhard Goetz?
It's sad but not surprising: we shouldn't expect unarmed workers to intervene. It would have been great if they had stopped this attack, but it is just as likely that the helpers would have been injured or killed.
Sorry all, I am going to have to vehemently disagree with some of you.
Nobody said they had to go fight hand to hand combat with this fool, but how about screaming "Hey Stop!" They weren't out in the open. They were in a booth and on a train. How about blowing the dayum horn>? Getting on the PA system and saying "the police have been called we see you and are taking video
Its almost embarrassing that we have let fear of lawsuits rob us of our humanity.
There are a lot of things that are "illegal" of "risky" but I'd rather be judged by 12 than be carried by 6 or live with the idea that I did nothing at all while another human being suffered.
"There are a lot of things that are “illegal” of “risky” but I’d rather be judged by 12 than be carried by 6 or live with the idea that I did nothing at all while another human being suffered." --gem2001
I agree with you, and when more of us feel this way and act on it, we will see fewer of these attacks. In the meantime...more of the same because too many fear "getting into trouble."
THIS STORY IS AN EMBARASSMENT TO ANYONE WHO IS A HUMAN.
HOW DO YOU STAND BY & LET THAT HAPPEN?
COWARDS. THERE WERE 2 OF YOU!!!
AMERICA SHOULD HAVE THE FICTIONAL "GOOD SAMARITAN" LAW, (FR SEINFELD'S LAST SHOW), MAYBE THERE WOULD BE LESS PEOPLE GETTING HURT.
Another immigrant who came to the sad realization that the image of America.....the whole "American Dream" is basically a fairy tale.
It's ironic that this is a city that doesn't want law abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves. They want you to rely on 911 and Police instead. Good luck dealing with a 911 operator in an emergency.
10 minutes doesn't surprise me... that's the far end of about how long these responses often take. 10 minutes feels like an hour in an emergency situation....especially a life/death event. Keep in mind...it took 10 minutes for police to arrive to a top priority call in a city with a whopping 40,000 officers....including its own transit unit. The transit authority PD alone has a bigger force than many cities across the Country. So imagine if you live in an area with a much smaller police department...with officers spread thinner.
That's why women should empower themselves. 911 and police (and your fellow citizen) cannot be relied on to save you. I'm not saying that you shouldn't call 911.... sure...call them. But make sure you have that 5 minute, 10 minute, 15 minute insurance policy. Call the Police to clean up the mess afterward. In many instances...911 and police are nothing more than the cleanup crew for you. If you are relying on them to protect you, you're in trouble. Your Safety/Security in terms of dealing with rapists and thugs is YOUR responsibility. Take ownership of your own protection...of your own safety. Even if that means a can of Pepper Spray/and having 911 on speed dial on your cell phone (although personally I don't think that's enough).
Don't be afraid to visit your local gun shop. In most large metro areas....there are usually a few places that actually cater to women....and will make you feel extremely welcome...and glad that you visited. Take their education classes.
Check your local grocery store/book store and buy some gun magazines...to learn about the different types of guns and ammo available....
Learn more about which guns/and which ammo calibers are most effective. Take the safety/beginner classes.... some retailers/gun ranges have courses especially for women. And buy the gun with the biggest caliber that you can safely and comfortably handle.
For effectiveness...you would probably want at minimum.....a 9mm or a .40 caliber handgun. The .32 magnum revolver is touted as effective as well.
Anything smaller might just aggravate an attacker.
__________
Madness is taking place everywhere.... it took police 45 minutes to enter a building with a gunman....while civilians were hiding...waiting for rescue. After about an hour, police finally got everyone out. Luckily the shooter took his own life.
And the state of this Country's 911 systems is pitiful. I'm sure you all remember the woman who called 911 several times about her ex-boyfriend but police never came... she was later assaulted...was damn near killed. I think that was Memphis or Nashville.
We are always hearing about nonsense regarding 911 operators....
Listen to the silly 911 operator on this burglary/home invasion call.... This seemed to be his first job out of high school... lol.
The first 1-2 minutes of a 911 call is wasted being processed by operators. It takes police another 4-5 minutes (minumum...under the best conditions) to get to you. Add that up...and it equals an eternity in an emergency.
But listen to this call....lol
Luckily it ended o.k. for the residents.... no so much for the home invader though. But it wasn't because of the good work of the 911 operator. He wanted the callers blood type and everything before providing a response. Not exactly the situation you want to be in when your heart is pounding through your chest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ytn8uplERY
gem2001, right on! That's what I was figuring... They could have screamed out, even screamed out that they called the cops. I seriously doubt the rapist is going to say, "Oh, hold on, let me finish first."
Secondly, she actually is technically suing the MTA... Of course, if I was one of the bystanders I would be scared as hell, it's understandable. However, an organization as big as the MTA, Id like to think that they should have a little better security... It's not very comforting as a female in her late 20s
I see lame excuses of possible legal liability, safety, fear etc. for not helping this poor woman other than just push a button. I guess that helps these guys sleep at night and keep their jobs. Can’t expect more from New York guys other than tough attitude. “Yeah I showed that rapist punk who’s the boss of the underground, you know what I did? I pushed that red button. Yeah! High 5” “You’re the Man!”
I’ll bet if the clerk saw her jumping the toll booth he would have immediately gotten on the loud
speaker and said something to her. But he decided not to do that to the rapist.
That is a real shame!
There is no law saying that we have to do anything. If she had been allowed to sue, this would open up the floodgates of liability on everyone. See a car accident? You must stop and help, because the injured driver could sue you for not helping. Raped in a subway car instead of a platform? Everyone in that car could be held liable for not doing enough to help or stop the act. Morally and legally are two different things. As someone who works in a public setting like the NY transit, I know neither I or my male co-workers would jump in. We see on a weekly basis the physical injury public nutjobs like rapists do to innocent people. Sure, nobody wants a woman to be raped, but nobody wants to be in a wheelchair the rest of their lives or have the victim injured more because of a failed attempt to help. It can be debated whether as a human-being these transit officers should have done more to help someone in distress, but to frame it as a problem needing a legal conclusion as the victim did has little merit.
All true Kelli, but rapists are cowards who usually run at the first sign of resistance from those of equal or more strength.
I agree with Gina. FRom my experience, I have prevented crimes just by showing up. Remember that criminals prey on those they deem weak.
My brother works for the MTA and has stopped numerous muggings and arguments just by showing up. Just ask him.
again, if you are in the Ohio area, holla at a scholar. i teach self defense. peace!