Wednesday
Sep242008
Stop the Bailout Open Thread--Video
Wednesday, September 24, 2008 at 9:33AM The Blogmother
I know many of you don't understand the CATASTRPHE that the United States Congress is about to bring down the heads on the American people and more importantly your children and grandchildren, but take ten minutes to watch this. ALL OF THIS WAS PREDICTED. I have been following this for four years waiting for the crash. This was not unexpected. What was unexpected was that the greedy bankers (and their Congressional water boys and girls )would hold a gun to our heads in the last days of a presidential campaign. Bring on the crash! I would rather a stock market crash of a credit freeze than to take the US dollar and run it through a shredder. One question...The people asking for this bailout have been WRONG or OUTRIGHT LIED every single time they have been asked. There are other options other than bailing out people who committed OUTRIGHT fraud. If you don't understand what is going on, this is a pretty good video that lays out what happened and what is going on now.
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This sorta reminds me of the steroids in Baseball controversy. I can get mad at the steroid users but baseball team owners, their managment, the heads of major league baseball, and the fans all were cheering when players bulked up, hit homeruns, and played in August and September like it was April and May. A lot of people made money on the enhanced performance.
Having said that, I know the greedy Wall Street execs are to blame BUT the American consumer is to blame as well. Taking out mortgages on more house than we can afford, maxing out the credit cards on that exclusive Jo Malone fragrance or Sony Playstation, spending every dime of our paychecks on foolishness, etc.,
The first presidential candidate to say these things will be the guy who gets my vote.
They were giving mortgages to people who were making $12 an hour in some places. The price of housing shot up and everyone ran and bought a house b/c they figured if I don't get one now, I will never be able to get on b/c the price will go up and up. While it is true that the price of thing usually go up over time, there is a difference between that and being over charged for something. .
Not to mention people like that Rich Dad, Poor Dad guy and other folks in the media who perpertrated this like everyone could be a landlord and become the next Donald Trump. Now what do we have? the tenants in these houses ended up getting kicked out b/c the landlord could pay the mortgage.
Don't forget black media paraded these folk on their airwaves and magazines to promote this 3% and no money down stuff to our community, now they trying to sit back and act like the are suprised and had no hand in this too.
I completely agree with this video. There is no way I want to bail out these big wigs that committed fraud. Enron went down due to fraud and I think these other institutions should be forced to do the same.
I have been obsessed with watching this all over the news. I just can't stop. I suspected that there were lies being told all around. My heart dropped when the DOW dipped 400+ points. I refuse to believe that no one saw this coming.
I keep hearing them say we are going into a recession which scares me because I think we have been in a recession for a while. I fear it is codespeak for the D- word.
I was so shocked when the government started dumping money into the market and bought Freddie, Fannie, and AIG.
Are we socialists or commies now?
Plus there were a few places in Texas, Tenn, and the Carolinas where there were alleged gas rations going on yesterday.
Socialism sucks until capitalism needs it to save its a$$.
This is ridiculous. We make a combined salary of $77,000 a year, have two kids and live in an apartment. We can't afford a home in our market (Los Angeles) and probably will have to move out of the area or out of state to purchase one.
We were reasonable, responsible and patient and now our grandkids will be paying for this mess.
This is greed run over on all levels; however there are a people who got caught in the catastrophe for so many different reasons. The uninsured and under insured individuals who are in incredible debt and have multiple mortgages because of medical problems are an example. It sounds like and isolated issue, but the scale is much larger that you would think. One of the leading causes for homelessness in this country is a medical situation that becomes expensive and forces people to leave their jobs i.e. cancer. This is particularly exacerbating if you’re a senior or single parent and have one income.
Redlining is an issue too. A lot of people of color and women were given predatory loans and had less access to quality credit even though they were just as qualified as their white/male counterparts. There was a study done in NY that showed how blacks and latinos were given higher interest rates than whites with the similar credit histories by major banks and they had little recourse for correcting this. Just like insurance rates, these individuals were profiled by mortgage brokers and bankers or were profiled by the neighborhood they were coming from or buying in. Even if the rate was reasonable, it was still higher. They were also, almost always offered the most risky loan packages by multiple banks, even if there credit warranted something more stable. This is not a new practice, but this credit free-for-all only made it worse.
I think this is also the result of America’s obsession w/ home ownership. We make everyone believe they’re only worth something if they own a home and then we set up a tax system that rewards home owners and almost penalizes renters. Add that to the fact that most American’s, mistakenly think their home is an asset (which it’s not), and they borrow off of it to get by. So instead of correcting our messed up healthcare system, we let people think they’ll have security if they own a home. And instead of thinking about how to improve access to college funding, we tell parents to borrow against their home to send their kids to college. It’s insane!! Meanwhile, rents are rising in most cities, because of speculation, to the point where they’re on par or even more expensive than some mortgages and people are in a panic to buy.
But like everything it starts at the top. Our government is borrowing money from China, banks are borrowing money from each other, we’re borrowing money from banks and NONE of use can afford to pay it back! Put a band-aid on this problem and it’s only going to get worse. We need to learn our lessons and stop living in this dream world of prosperity. And these CEO’s, who are criminals, need to have their industry better regulated. Working on Wall Street shouldn’t be a windfall. If these people want to operate in the free market, then they need to stop asking for hand outs when they get in trouble. Why can’t people understand that we all benefit when everyone’s prosperous. When Clinton was president, taxes were higher for these wealthy individuals, but the economy grew and wealth was much more evenly distributed. More people shared in the prosperity. There was actually a market for people to legitimately by these services from banks instead of the phantom market that was created as peoples incomes remained stagnant and their money became less valuable.
I know a stick up when a see one and these thugs are worse than any thugs out there. Just because you make your money legally, doesn’t mean you’re not a criminal. I hope this FBI probe is sincere, but everything about it smells like a sham to me. If they get a bail out, there better be serious regulations and the government needs to own an interest in these companies so we can share in the good times - when ever that might be.
Government & Wall Street are the problem. And, both of our presidential candidates have had their hands in the cookie jar as well.
This infuriates me.
I was glad to hear that the FYI is doing fraud investigations on these companies. It also sounds like both sides of the aisle are coming to the same conclusions about the bail out package. They just need to agree on the details. Unless something happened the last couple of hours it appears that Congress did not like the bail out idea. Let them put the skids on this.
I spoke with a realtor friend of mine this morning. I asked her about what she did when they started giving out these loans to people that would not qualify for them under normal circumstances. She tried to get them to check other lending institutions. She told me that some of the lenders would send buyers to her. She tried to warn them that they might be getting over their heads. She said that EVERY ONE OF THEM (1) were foreclosed upon or became a distressed seller (sold the homes for way less that market value).
You cannot just blame the companies ALTHOUGH THEY SHOULD BEAR THE BRUNT OF THIS. Some of these people taking out the loans knew they did not qualify under normal circumstances. They had to know they were getting in over their heads. They wanted to be able to say they owned a home. I guess one reason I am looking at it like this is that I remember (1) how many thousands of dollars I shelled out, (2) how many verifications of income I had to submit, etc. to purchase my house in 2001. I remember stuggling when I was out of work for a time. Thank God I was able to keep my house. To think that I and most people that are paying their mortgages on time are being asked to bail out the companies and these customers is hard to swallow. If I had lost my house it would have been 'too bad'. Now these same companies want the government to bail us out. I say 'too bad'. I hope the government will do the same. This is so unfair. These companies will not learn their lessons if they do not feel the pain of their actions. Lack of funds is a great motivator for change.
Al from Bay Shore, you get an "amen" on everything - except that bit about your vote.
...and for educational purposes may I also recommend:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
I've been thinking about the blaming the individual in this scenario and I'm not so sure.
Back in the day, you could apply for home loans until the cows came home and you were declined. I'm not sure we should blame the homeowners on this one. All they can do is "apply" for the loan. It's up to someone else to approve it.
So, basically, if the people who actually wanted to buy loans they weren't really qualified for...had simply been denied, we wouldn't been in this mess.
That seems closer to the truth, but even that feels like smoke and mirrors.
I think we had greedy CEOs that paid politicians to nod, wink, and basically look the other way while they all got rich and re-elected on our dollars.
I agree with Al. I want one of these guys to lay out Americans the way we deserve to be. STOP BUYING STUFF YOU CAN'T AFFORD!!! I can't believe the number of people i see wheeling a $2000 television out of Costco! Do you really need a tv that cost THAT much? I just don't get it.
Perhaps this crisis will force us all to reexamine our priorities. Buying a house or car on credit makes sense - but financing a life stlye on credit is just irresponsible and foolish. And THAT is not the greedy lender's fault. Along with that three bedroom house people wanted TVs, high end washer/dryers, etc etc etc. It's bigger than just the house itself - it was an image people were buying into, recklessly.
NO BAIL OUT.
I still think its the greedy lenders fault. Lenders decide who to approve based on formulas they devise. The older formulas worked effectively for years.
After they made a change that enabled them to bring in more money by allowing loans that ordinarily would have been denied, they decided that we the American Taxpayer should bail them out even though they knew the loans were risky to begin with...And, we all know the greater the risk, the greater the reward...for a small few.
Even better, now they have us blaming other average Americans simply trying to have a better life. Am I the only one that remembers lending practices of old?
Wow! One of the new Freddie Mac CEOs is making $900,000 per year. They pay these guys to make tough decisions based on years of experience and education.
Even in the midst of begging us for a bailout and convincing us its some poor sap's fault who APPLIED and received a loan, they'll still be bringing in millions regardless as to whether their entities succeed or fail.
You cannot force a bank to loan you money or give you credit. Is there anyone out there who sees the irony of this? Banks have the right and responsibility to say no to risky customers. They used to do it.
I agree. We should not build a lifestyle on credit. In fact, I don't believe in credit cards or a system that encourages you to build debt in order to build a credit score that later turns into the possibility of buying a home, if you're able to manage that credit.
But, if we blame the people who APPLIED for credit we're shooting arrows at the wrong people. We should be blaming the people who EXTENDED the credit.
its funny because Kevin Phillips, a hard core conservative who worked in the Reagan administration predicted this several times over in several of his books.
So many other people said this would happen. I am surprised it took this long to happen.
i agree with Hue manity as well.
the reason why they gave those loans away was because they were selling that debt as soon as the ink was dry. they knew those folks were going to foreclose but they already sold the debt...
Dito to everything Yme said.
The lending practices of old that Yme speaks of was only a year ago for me. When I bought my home in 2007, I was required to go through a grueling process. Years of tax returns, years of rental history, the terms of my 401K, no outstanding debt over $3000, etc. had to be verified. Every "i" had to be dotted and every "t" crossed before I was approved.
I went through a program that helps low to middle income families purchase a home. There are a several nationally, locally like: GCRA, NACA, HomesforHope, United Way, Rural Housing, Wachovia and Bank of America loans for teachers, fireman, and other underpaid service workers, etc.
The bottom line is: there are legitimate programs that help low income, high risk families purchase affordable homes with 30yr 5-6% interest rate mortgages.
Banks need to be held accountable for approving people that were not eligible. Lending industries are more than likely aware of the type legitimate programs that I mentioned. But they dont make as much money off of these type of loans as they do from ARMs. Not telling a person about better options is skanky. A good realtor can help to find good solid financing. A reputable bank can help a potential homebuyer find good solid financing and if they can't, they deny them the loan as they should.
It really igs me to hear people blame everyday working folk for this financial crisis. That type of wrong thinking always allows the true culprits to continue robbing folks. Working class people that own homes are not in foreclosure.
Iman Said: "I know a stick up when a see one and these thugs are worse than any thugs out there. Just because you make your money legally, doesn’t mean you’re not a criminal."
I felt that this needed to be repeated.
may be heartless but i blame people. my husband and i argue today bout our place because instead of the nicer home i wanted he bougt one he knew we could afford and one day own.
(again my keybord is sticking)
The only reason, I can't blame people is because no person can force a bank to loan them money. You can ask all day long, but its up to the bank to give it.
I really believe this is smoke and mirrors.
I'm one of those average little home people. I would much prefer to be living in another home. But, I think we miss the larger point.
Even though, as Americans, we should have sense enough to "ask" only for what we need, whether or not we do is pointless. The bank has the money. The bank makes the decision to loan it.
Guess what. Now, with almost perfect credit, it has become more difficult for people to acquire loans. They haven't stopped asking for the money. The banks have stopped saying, Yes.
It's the lenders job to assess the risk and to make a wise decision accordingly. I strongly believe this blame is misplaced, if we blame the person who asked for money and not the people who 1)create the policies that say who receives a loan, 2) lend the money based on their risk analysis, 3) politicians who were given "hush" and "help" money by entities like Fannie Mae and Fannie Mac.
And to be honest, I believe they are using a little bit of class warfare here to take our minds off the real criminals. It's not the neighbor sitting over there in a nicer house than mine. (and it is a nicer house).
The neighbor's closer and a more tangible target, and shucks he should've known better.
But, he could not have acquired that house without the bank giving him the money, asking alone doesn't do it.
He could not have acquired the house, without bad policies written to make it possible for the bank to extend a loan that would have been too risky under previous lending practices. He could have asked all day along, but he still wouldn't have gotten the loan.
He could not have acquired the house, without politicians nodding and winking with fatter war chests for elections, running away from regulation...and ignoring CEOS making millions as their companies tanked. These people were supposed to be watching out for us. They were not. And, the benefit greatly for not watching. A consumer can ask all day long, but if these people had been doing their job, he still wouldn't have received the loan.
Will my neighbor deserve to lose his house if he can't come up with the money for that house next door, with the pool, nice backyard, and better view. Yeah.
But, to blame the current state of our economy on him is simply misguided. That would be using him as a scapegoat so we won't ask the people in Washington and Wall Street the questions we should be asking.
I put most of the blame on these crooks than on the regular working class Joe and Jane. Yeah, there is much blame to go around, but these scumbag crooks knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Regular people wanted the "American Dream", had high hopes for themselves, their children, and their future generations. These scumbag crooks stole it from right under their noses.
Now, WE the taxpayers will have to pay for this...... and possibly for the next couple generations. What a shame that my younger brother, who just entered college, will have debt like he could never imagine (and he hasn't even taken out loans but this bailout is debt enough).
I have a love/hate relationship with my country. And right about now, I hate it more than I love it for this very reason (and a few others).
Yme - keep on droppin' knowledge. ;)
I meant Freddie Mac - LOL! Apparently I'm dropping a little bad knowledge.
I want my neighbors (Americans) to be able to live in their homes. It's really really bad when homes go empty. It's chilling. They need help in keeping their homes, that's the only "bailout" I'd agree to. None for Wall Street.
This financial problem is due to real wages being stuck at the same level since the 1970s. People borrow to make up the difference that a good salary would have provided for.
"Trickle down" has never happened. As we can see, there's a lot of "trickle up" and "pockets picked clean" happening.
The government does little to encourage savings by average citizens. If people were able to save - by virtue of making enough to make ends meet - this problem wouldn't be so severe.
Credit (debt) should be used for leverage, but only if the participant can repay....
No bail out. Let the "free market" rule.
No bailout for Wall Street - responsibility, accountability and fiscal prudence was missing. Citizens should not be held responsible for greed and mismanagement. NO - and Hell No.
There are a number of anti bailout petitions online. This one http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/put-the-bailout-on-the-ballot/ is an alternative. Please pass it around. thanks
There are a number of anti bailout petitions online. This one http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/put-the-bailout-on-the-ballot/ is an alternative. Please pass it around. thanks