I May Have Caught a Case of Obama Stan-icitis: Did Y'all See that DebateLast Night.? Don't Worry Hillary Fans, the Obama Acolytes Will Cure Me Of It!

WHY? Because of this opening statement.... Watch!

Y'all know we aren't enamored with Senator Barack Obama. Mainly for his comments on Genarlow Wilson and his silence about Dunbar Village after his office said he was going to release a statement. I know he knows about Dunbar Village because I confronted a member of his national finance committee on the radio, I've stood outside Obama fund raisers holding a sign and handing out Dunbar Village Flyers, BlkSeagoat hs spoken directly with some of his high ranking staffers, and much much more so It bothers me that he will speak out on behalf of Black criminal defendants (Jean 6 and Genarlow Wilson), but silent about this horrific crime against humanity--- not on another continent, but right here in this country.
That being said, I thought his debate performance was impressive. Jesse Jackson is right (GASP) Politics is about choices. It is about options. We're down to four ( yeas green party and libertarian party stans I know you are out there too).

Anyway, I thought his debate performance was good. and look, he pulled out the chair for Hillary.

Don't worry Hilary fans. I promise you that I will be cured of any Obama Stan-icitis by this afternoon. How? The quickest way to cure a budding case of Obama Stan-icitis is to encounter a true blue Obama Stan. Second only to Ron Paul supporters, they have to be some of the most insufferable readers ever and have been a burr in this blog's backside ever since I merely asked the question "Michelle Obama Wants Black Women to Vote For Her Husband: Why the Heck Should We" Then all hell broke loose on this blog for about a week. These folks have made African Americans enjoying discussing one of the most exciting political campaigns EVER miserable. But Hillary fans have lost their minds too (read "NOW Head Described Treatment Of Clinton A "Gang Bang"), but they haven't been irritating without end. Watch. And know that even as I say they annoy me to no end, they will post lengthy comments ANYWAY.... Why? Well because they have Obama Stan-icitis. Persuasion or increasing his support beyond THEM is unimportant. Their most important objective is to tar and feather anyone who isn't also an Obama stan.

People vote for who you want to. Just make sure you vote.

Comments

[Villager]

Gina --> I thought that the debate last night was a remarkable civics lesson for all of us. Two candidates for president talking on a number of issues (health care, economy, Iraq War, experience, character and so forth) in a professional and engaging manner. I thought both candidates did well for themselves and the Democratic Party.

However, I agree with you that Obama won the debate at the end when the topic turned to Iraq War. He had it right. Hillary had it wrong. And she looked almost tortured in trying to explain the reason that she voted to let Bush go to war.

Anyhow, I thought it was a great debate...

peace, Villager

[Anonymiss -]

I love last night's debate as well. It was civil and issues were focused on. I liked how they took little jabs at each other yet stayed on topic.

The one part of the debate that had me dying was when Obama said that he knew from the beginning that the war was wrong & that he had it right first. Hillary just looked at him & I saw "You SOB" hidden in that smile, LOL!

Hill's quick-witted. When she was asked the political dynasty question, I liked her answer: (paraphrased) "It took a Clinton to clean up the mess of a Bush so it'll take another one." I wasn't all that impressed with Clinton's presidency though.

[SheCodes]

I haven't seen it yet, but plan to watch it tonight. I'm glad to hear reports that they addressed 'the issues'.

[Amadeo]

I just wonder...why do so many black people expect Obama to come out like Al Sharpton when:
1) We ain't all that keen on Al
2) He's not running for president of black america.
3) Ya'll should know that will get him dropped faster than anything.

Even with some of the things we're mad that he hasn't touched on, I still see nonsense on the net from other races.

"I don't want February to have 31 days so I won't vote for Obama"

All types of nonsense. For what I see alot of people asking of him, he might as well put on the Black Panther Uniform and say he'll give black people reparations, while smacking Hillary with the Final Call. People still probably wouldn't be happy.

[christopherlee]

Please explain the beef with him on Dunbar Village. Admittedly it's a horrific tragedy but it's a local law enforcement issue, no? There unfortunately will always be some kind of reminder how thin the line between civilization and barbarism is regardless of skin color but besides making a moral statement what do you want?

[magawisca]

Perhaps Obama does not want to remind white and other Americans of how horribly adrift so many black men are. The Dunbar case could be used to tar him with a label he may not want to associate himself with. Why is that bad? What would you have him say? Some brothers in Florida act like animals worthy of not only our pity but our contempt? Look, look, the worse black male stereotypes ever! Let's pay attention to that so that I too, lose my humanity! C'mon, you know how guilt by association works in the white imagination. This is simply too much to ask and patently unfair to expect.

[Aaron & Alaine]

From WAOD's resident Obama Acolyte in Chief - I watched the entire debate on CNN and while I don't think Obama hurt himself, it wasn't a slam dunk performance. If I were a voter making a decision purely on the basis of the debate performance last night, Hillary would edge him out. He was good, she was a bit better. She was relaxed, confident, comfortable in her own skin and she demonstrates a seeming grasp of the issues that often seems to go a level or two deeper than Obama's. She is a policy wonk, just as Bill was. Some of it is a style and approach. My impression is Obama thinks his answers out on the fly. She is prepped with a response package for whatever gets thrown her way. For example, her answer on Iraq, though it may have been a tortured rejoinder crafted to avoid saying I made a mistake, it was a prepped answer. She was ready for that question. Obama can be caught flat footed and he cogitates on the spot. Not good. He and his debate prep team needs to watch the Great Debaters. Denzel said its warfare and you must destroy your opponent and relentless prep is required. He has yet to demonstrate that in any debate in my view.

Obama is not a wonk and I think it shows in all of his debate performances to date. This is part of the "where's the beef?"critique of Obama made by WAOD and many, many others and that critique has merit. I expected him to come loaded for a little more bear than he did. From here on out, its just the two of them in the debates. They will have a lot of time to talk and his soaring but light rhetoric is good for one mano e mano debate, but not two or three. Against her, its a problem. McCain (if he is the nominee) is the same kind of conceptual, philosophical, vision based campaigner as Obama, and the O I think matches up well with him. I think he can take the old man in a debate. But policy light discussions won't cut it in future debates with Hillary. He's going to have to come with some more thunder in the next round. The problem is exacerbated by the reality that there is not a tremendous amount of policy daylight between them.

What Obama lacks in policy/process knowledge I believe he makes up for in judgment and he made some case for himself on that. Going into Super Tuesday, he didn't stumble, but in my view, if you were an undecided voter leaning his way and were looking for this debate to clinch it, Obama did not close the deal definitively.

-Aaron

[tusk91]

As far as the debate performance goes, I heard some comments from the MSNBC that he in fact showed more depth on policy.

In fact they argued that he proved that he can go toe to toe with her on policy matters during the debate.

I myself think he did pretty good and if anything it was a tie the
first half and a win by him in the second when it came to Iraq.

Let's face it he is never going to do but, so good against Hillary. She was the captain of her debate team at Wesley.

Last point is I think it would certainly serve Obama to see even more of "the closer" on the campaign trail.

See arctle below:

Michelle Obama finds way to hearts

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.marbella01feb01,0,5847713.column

They don't call her "the closer" for nothing.

"She blew me away," one audience member, the previously undecided Betsy Cromartie, 50, told me afterward. "He just got my vote."

[teddy]

I think Obama actually won the debate on policy. But, that could be because I am a supporter. You tend to hear what you're expecting to hear in these things. I'll admit that.

But, to offer a concrete example, let's look at the question on immigration. Both candidates offered the exact same policy; e.g. close the borders, crack down on exploitive employers, raise standards for workers across the board, allow current illegal immigrants a path to citizenship after payment of a fine and ESL classes. However, Obama took his answer a step further. Instead of leaving the matter at immigration, he tried to address the (faulty) metanarrative behind the question; namely, that immigration is the cause of the loss of low-skill, low-wage jobs among African Americans. He tried to point out that while immigration has an impact, the far larger cause of the plight of urban job loss is corporate greed, unjustly lopsided economic and tax policy, and unfettered foreign trade policy, and a broken educational system that fails to prepare urban students for the high-skill, technology-driven jobs that are available in our economy. While he answered the question of what to do about immigration, he also tried to expose the immigration issue for the smokescreen that it is, allowing corporate elite to continue to garnish an unfair share of corporate profits that never seem to trickle down.

That's the kind of high-level policy discussion that typically does not make its way into public discourse because it doesn't translate well into a sound bite. Obama offers this kind of discourse all the time, but people only hear "let's hold hands and sing kumbaya" because that's what the media has conditioned people to expect from him.

Like I said, people hear what they want to hear.

[Vivrant]

Right on Gina! I am an Obama supporter, not a stan and I definitely have been saying vote for who you want to vote for (as long as it's not Republican! LOL). I can support my candidate (for reasons other than his skin color) without degrading everyone else for their choices (except if it's a "No plan for withdrawal" Republican)

In any event, I really enjoyed this round. I got to actually focus on the differences in their agendas. While I do agree that Hillary had a slight edge as she is clearly a polished machine, that's not what I'm looking for in my candidate so I wasn't moved.

And frankly, Michelle "The Closer" Obama plays a large role in my choice. With that Black woman behind him calling him on his mess, he can do anything.

[Bernadette]

Teddy,

People do indeed hear what they want to hear. You have characterized Obama’s denial of the impact of immigration on low-skill unemployment in the African-American community as a deep analysis of the US economic landscape - one that identifies what you call a “faulty metanarrative” of immigrant scapegoating, in light of what he (and presumably you as well) sees as a broader set of economic issues that has a greater effect on the high unemployment rates in low-income communities.

You have also stated that people fail to recognize this depth of insight because the media has conditioned people not to expect it from him. People hear what they want to hear.

I certainly agree with you there. I went back and listened to that portion of the debate, and Obama never mentioned “unfettered foreign trade policies,” “an educational system that fails to prepare our students for high-skill jobs,” or “corporate profits that never seem to trickle down” in his delineation of the economic issues that have led to an urban unemployment increase (arguments that have been used by Obama at other times when referring to “outsourcing,” an arguably related issue, but decidedly different from the specific issue at hand).

Instead, he did talk about exploitive working conditions, underfunded education and infrastructure, and imbalanced tax cuts. However, while you characterize that as depth, I think he failed to answer the woman’s question directly and I think that is representative of what he has repeatedly done throughout this campaign whenever questions of race come up.

To be clear, I do think immigrants have been unfairly scapegoated in this country and its rising nativist, protectionist culture. However, I think Obama could have acknowledged the validity of that woman’s question without dismissing it as misguided at best and irrelevant at worst.

The truth is that while there are clearly broad-based economic realities that have led to a rise in unemployment, these realities have been exacerbated by exploited immigrant labor, and that has had an effect on African-Americans. I appreciate Hillary Clinton’s candor in that respect.

Obama has continually avoided making specific comments about issues that disproportionately affect one group of people, particularly Black people, unlike John Edwards who was more direct and forthright in that area (I miss him). I understand that Obama’s race precludes him from doing so lest he be labeled the “Black Candidate,” but this fallacious idea of “racelessness” is what has got him pandering to White liberals, and I think that will perpetually keep him from publicly standing up for Black women and girls in the way many of us might want him too – and that disappoints me.

[ac]

When this long campaign started I was undecided. It seemed an embarassment of riches - and I'm not talking about viable female and black candidates - I'm talking candidates who all had something intelligent to say, fairly well-thought out policies and answers as to how we, as a country, are going to get ourselves out of the hot mess created by the current administration.

As time went on I began to lean towards Edwards and Obama. Just a subconscious reflection of my overall disdain for the hard ball, hard-hitting politics of the Clintons.

Several months ago I began to see some really negative campaigning. I could hardly believe what I thought I was seeing. By last month I was 100% dead certain that I was watching the Clintons play a very nasty and dirty game of racial politics. It turned my stomach.

It also made me reflect back on the Clinton administration and all my rose colored memories of "better days". Days when President Clinton failed to stand strong and defend gay rights after they helped to elect him. Days when our government largely ignored the Rwandan genocide and the Haitian civil war. Days when Hillary failed to play nice to help us achieve healthcare reform and Bill had relations with the intern and then lied about it.

Like a woman who leaves her abuser and hooks up with an even worse abuser, we reminisce fondly of "better" days.

Well no more. Seriously, no more Clintons (and no more d**n Bushes, either).I cannot overlook the way the Clintons through my people under the d**n bus when it became politically expedient for them. I will not reward the introduction of race-baiting into this nomination process by voting for Billary. This goes beyond Obama and has the potential to reverberate down to the next viable black candidate. Moreover, I have no faith that a candidate who would not hesitate to do this to secure the nomination would give a rats a** about the many issues of race and gender this sistah would like to see addressed in my lifetime.

I miss Edwards but I soldier on. I think there are some major differences between Obama and Clinton's healthcare plans and I don't believe mandatory insurance is the way to go. It just doesn't go far enough in addressing the real problem of affordability. I think Obama's point about credibility in the anti-war argument is well-made, she has none. Additionally, her inability, or refusal, to acknowledge her mistaken support speaks volumes. Try as she might she isn't deflecting attention away from that issue.

Apart from the policy, which otherwise is more similar than dissimilar, it is an issue of image for me. We've had seven long years of Junior and before that eight years of Slick Willie and the triangulators. I just want to see some dang dignity restored to the White House and the office of President. And I just don't see Billary delivering that. The Obamas do, they give me hope. Hope that the US gets back to living up to the potential that this great country has, hope that our "quane"(sp?) is restored. Hope that we begin to focus on whats broken in our country and heal NO and the gulf coast. Hope that we might stem the loss of life in our armed forces and Iraq by refocusing the strength of our forces and prioritizing this war on terror. Hope that we'll fix our broken schools, try to end or dependence on oil, fund our cities, provide safe and affordable housing for all, create living wages and bring some jobs back to America.

After 15 years I just want to see the dignity of the office restored. Obama is the only candidate left who can do that. With Michelle at his side ('cuz you know she doesn't put up with any foolishness) we just might see intelligence, grace and class restored to the highest office in the land.

Just my humble opinion.

[tusk91]

Well said "ac" well said! I am so sick of black people getting offended about Obama not "embracing" his race and complaining about him skating away from race issues/politics.

There have been more than enough white politicians to confront racial politics head on but, to our detriment.

Yea, Hillary can is is allowed to confront racial and gender issues with out flinching. It has always been her advantage because she does not have to worry about any labels. That's primarily one reason why the biggest beneficiary of the civil rights movement in the area of employment specifically has been "white woman".

I don't think anyone can say honestly that they have had any effective positive impact on the black community.

As far as Hillary goes, I believe that actions speak volumes over words. She has shown just how easy it is for her to throw us(black folks) under the bus to get where she wants to go.

Yet, we sit around and complain about Obama not putting race and gender front in center in every debate or stomp speech.

I think Obama had it right on the issue of Immigration. It is easier to attempt to come up with other solutions concerning unemployment in our community than to look to point fingers and blame.

We have seen way to much of that already. So instead of him pointing fingers at all the Hispanics taking black jobs he went into the community, sleeves rolled up and worked to resolve the problem.

Where was Hillary?

On the board of Walmart!!!

Actions speak volumes, actions speak volumes!!!

[tusk91]

Well said "ac" well said! I am so sick of black people getting offended about Obama not "embracing" his race and complaining about him skating away from race issues/politics.

There have been more than enough white politicians to confront racial politics head on but, to our detriment.

Yea, Hillary can is is allowed to confront racial and gender issues with out flinching. It has always been her advantage because she does not have to worry about any labels. That's primarily one reason why the biggest beneficiary of the civil rights movement in the area of employment specifically has been "white woman".

I don't think anyone can say honestly that they have had any effective positive impact on the black community.

As far as Hillary goes, I believe that actions speak volumes over words. She has shown just how easy it is for her to throw us(black folks) under the bus to get where she wants to go.

Yet, we sit around and complain about Obama not putting race and gender front in center in every debate or stomp speech.

I think Obama had it right on the issue of Immigration. It is easier to attempt to come up with other solutions concerning unemployment in our community than to look to point fingers and blame.

We have seen way to much of that already. So instead of him pointing fingers at all the Hispanics taking black jobs he went into the community, sleeves rolled up and worked to resolve the problem.

Where was Hillary?

On the board of Walmart!!!

Actions speak volumes, actions speak volumes!!!

[iman]

@ Bernadette. I didn't appreciate Obama's comment on immigration either, and I'm a supporter. I am not interested in trying to start a "black/brown" war and play into racisist mind traps, but I do feel as though he was way too dismissive of her concerns.

The fact of the matter is that there are many black people in this country who are looking for the same "low skilled" jobs illegal immigrants are and are being priced out the market. There have always been bus boys, day laborers, nannies, maids, migrant famers, etc. in this country for years, the only difference is that they were largely black. While many black children, like the children of immigrants, have moved on to better careers than their parents, there are a lot of black people in this country that are still looking for this type of work and are being met by an unhospitable market. This not just an issue for poor black folks either, it's an issue for poor "low skilled" Americans of all colors.

I find in interesting how we can be so dismissive of the needs for job protection for lowskilled workers, yet don't criticize American policy makers for not opening up more H-1B visa's for high skilled workers when employers are actually begging for them. It's okay to protect American IT jobs for example, but the jobs at the bottom of the economic latter?

While I agree with Obama that the real problem is an economy that is not meeting the needs of it's people, I think he unfairly caracterized that womans concerns as scapegoating. This is what people are experiencing first hand in their neighborhoods in a daily basis. I think we need to work towards an economy that does not function off of the exploitation of anyone, legal or illegal, and creates better oppourtunities for citizens, starting with education.

[Bernadette]

Thanks Iman.

I also want to make it clear that I am not a Clinton supporter. I agree that the campaign has been dirty, the Clinton Administration wasn’t all that for Black people, and once she brought Bob Johnson out to clean up her mess, I crossed her completely off my list.

I am just tired of the fact that many people are celebrating how this country is making history by coming very close to electing a Black man or a White woman president, and that Black man has to de-emphasize his race to do it. I’m pissed off that Black women on this site and others are harassed by people who don’t think it’s fair/right/relevant/practical, etc. to have candidates respond to our needs or the issues that affect us, when every other group of people not only requests but demands just that. I’m even more upset that the political reality is that the candidates don’t have to respond to us to get elected, and won’t have to respond to us once in office because we didn’t put them there. I’m pissed off that people can continually justify silence on the horrors that happen to Black women by putting black male dignity before black women’s safety, and get away with it time and time again.

But you know what, shecodes? I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired and angry and pissed off. I want to be dangerous! You all have finally brought my out of the shadows of "lurkdom"

Well my rant is over. I must say though, that the fact that Obama has to deemphasize race to become president of the United States does not make me brim with pride. The fact that he might do it despite the racism in this country, does, however, make me smile.

[Gorgeous Black Women]

Wow. The Dems got it together for one night. Hope they make a habit of this.