What About Our Daughters

I will state that my point of reference is one that survived a long job hiatus because of layoffs at WorldCom in 2001-2002. As we all know that was because of corrupt leadership. On Friday 12/12 I will be losing my job because of the policies of the client site where I am currently consulting. Again it is not economic factors that are causing my job loss or others at this client site.

First of all not all these job losses are because of economic factors. Businesses fail because of bad decisions made. The big three auto makers represent just over 1/2 the market. HOWEVER from my understanding the rest of the automakers are doing well because people are buying their cars. I can understand the pastor's concern for his own welfare and the welfare of the people since he is located in Detroit. The people in MI from my understanding have actually been in a one-state recession for quite a while. However I still say bad decisions should not be rewarded. Other companies fail and people lose their jobs. Many people suffer through hard times because of their companies closing. I went through five years of a financial fog because of the corruption of one man and living in a city where the tax policies drove many companies away along with their really good jobs. We have already felt the impact of the big three shutting down plants in the US and sending those jobs overseas and may see more impact in the future. However all the big three had to do is take a long look at their number, check out their competition and adjust. This is what good companies do. They insisted on building cars that people are not buying. Why should I pay for that, especially seeing that I will not have a job after Friday?

I think that I will have you come preach at my church! Your comments are theologically sound, insightful, and wise. The best take I've seen regarding this unholy marriage or illicit tryst between the/a church and the Big Three.

This is a *great* post...I think that the present financial problems are a way for Christians to wake up, take responsibility as stewards, and stop worshipping money.

Did you see the people praying over the bull on Wall Street? That was even worse...I'm sure that didn't work out for Aaron 'nem in Deuteronomy...

Thank you for this Gina. We often fail to see that there is a lesson in the storm. You can't grow by being comfortable. I have been telling my friends and family, for the last two years, to prepare but for the most part it has fallen on deaf ears. I have been helping people to change their habits and embrace new ideas.

That really is the issue that we are dealing with at both an individual and collective level. As indivduals we are not following the simple, not necessarily easy, rules for managing our finances. As a collective group we have a government that is doing the same. The debt problems we have as individuals is mirrored in our exploding national debt.

I was also creeped out by the pictures you posted. I agree that they have gone beyond creating a compelling image. I love the idea of using props and visual aide in a message but praying and laying hands on cars seems a lot like idol worship.

My prayer is that people would listen to the God's voice within the storm. That they would learn from this and come out stronger on the other side.

Thanks again for another great post Gina.

Was that a church service or a mini car show? Did he anoint them with motor oil? I can understand praying for the people being laid off & their families, etc. but praying that the MAN votes to help the auto industry?? As far as the women selling her hair for christmas toy money instead of donating it to Locks of Love to help put a smile on a childs face, I don't even know what to say...Sad.. OH, congrats Gina on your interview with the T.J.M.S. on M.O.W. !!!

I'm sorry I have to say it.... Some black folks have no discernment. We are the reason the stupid word of faith and prosperity gospel (s) have flourished. We seek the hand (out) of God and not the face of God. This debacle is not an illustrative example it's the perpetuation of the false gospel. I'm not sure if the Pastor is biblically retarded himself or if he is a master deceiver but I'm guess he lacks knowledge of the truth.

America has a large population of lazy, greedy, immature who feel entitled to free things -- God's people should be different sadly we are not. Skeptics have every reason to mock and question the intellect of Christians and because of our lack of knowledge we are disgracing the name of Jesus and bastardizing His redemption.

What will it take for us to wake up?

I'm put off by a minister making the pulpit into a mockery. If you believe in God you believe that whatever happens is happening for the best in the end.

I don't expect much from a minister that supports this nonsense. He comes from a family of ministers that exhibit these types of extreme behaviors. Even the manner in which his father is buried (on the church property I believe) could be viewed as some type of idol worship.

Is God really into the state of the economy? Or politics? Or sports? Or any other worldly concerns?

If the concerns of this life are a priority for God, then perhaps someone could explain to me why he/she allows the murder of innocent victims; domestic violence; ignorance of people; the massive outbreaks of disease; the famine across the world; wars; years of slavery; racism; discrimination; unemployment or any other issue...

It's a rhetorical statement btw...

My point is that there are plenty of concerns that I find more important to deal with if I felt like God 'cared' one way or the other.

"Recessions are as legitimate at expansions, despair is as legitimate as joy, sadness is as legitimate as happiness. "

So very true.

Cinco, it's not God that allows these things to happen, it's man. Our lazyness, selfishness, greed etc make great gardens for all of that pain. God is there to provide a way for us to deal with it if we choose.

I wish folks who called themselves Christians would take an active role about learning and understanding what Christ was about. The church, especially the black churh, has been hijacked by ignorance for so long that folks just feel comfortable going along with it. To me it's a sad shuck and jive show.

Life was never promised to be pain free and fun but like Gina stated we are to learn from it so we can grow. It's really heartbreaking how many people in this country and in their own walk with Christ don't understand that. It was only a matter of time for this economic crisis to blow up.

Rev Ellis and many preachers that preach these false messages will fall in the days to come if for no other reason that people that lose their jobs will not have it to give to them. However I think a lot of this will be because people are wising up to these extortioners. Thank God for that. We need some sanity in doctrine.

Gina
You and I seem to have been experiencing the same things spiritually!

I can't stand the idol worship of the entire Word of Faith movement. Jesus never told his disciples that the Mark 11:23 prayer this movement and TBN loves to stand on, meant they would have a spiritual genie in a bottle!

We needed this to happen. I talked about this coming two years ago. It is like the days of Joseph with the skinny cows eating up the fat cows. Mark 10:23 says, "How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God." If you read up a few verses, Jesus told the rich young ruler, "You lack one thing: Go, sell all you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me." Mark 10:21. How different this recession would be if the top 1% of the country would do that!

Keep posting Gina.

When the Big 3 finally die, I am going to write Ellis personally to gloat.

This is why I will NEVER, EVER, EVER attend a church. Besides the inherent contradictory theology, I just have no desire to partake of the ways of the chitlin' eatin' negro.

If there is a god, he/she can't possibly be happy with the number of people running around proclaiming hot garbage as gospel.

It actually hurts me to see so many people so open to deception and being pimped.

Thanks for a great post.

@ Samantha,

My point is that some people that believe in "God" put him into issues that they want to make a concern. Down through the years under the guise of religion, many terrible things have occurred.

I don't knock a person's desire to believe in a 'higher power/being', I don't support any school of thought that attributes certain disasters, concerns, problems as acts of God. There are too many people that confuse their beliefs with facts.

"You can’t grow by being comfortable. I have been telling my friends and family, for the last two years, to prepare but for the most part it has fallen on deaf ears. I have been helping people to change their habits and embrace new ideas."

This quote is SO true. If I had gotten everything that I prayed for, I would be selfish, spoiled and angry.

I grew up with two parents who lived through the depression. My dad told me that if I didn't have the money for something, I had no business buying it. I did not have a credit card until I was a grown woman and had been working for a number of years.

The best lesson my parents taught me was how to do without and that I could live without getting everything I wanted. as a result, there are things I have never had and don't really want. I don't have an HD TV because my TV's are still working, I have not purchased new furniture in years because my furniture is sturdy and looks good. I do buy clothes but I don't need to go to stores like Bloomingdale's and buy designer clothes, I don't need expensive jewelry.

I think today people have confused wants with needs, and believe me, you can live without an X Box.

"Running away. Praying for God that they won’t have to go THROUGH! That isn’t the contract as I understand it. Recessions are as legitimate at expansions, despair is as legitimate as joy, sadness is as legitimate as happiness. The promise was not that we would avoid any discomfort in life, in fact there is some support that we would be made MORE uncomfortable. The promise was that in all things we would not be alone and that we would be given peace in the middle of a storm."

PREACH GINA!! That was so true! The Good Book says that it rains on the just and the unjust. We ALL gotta go through some things sometimes! This was a really encouraging post.

Thanks you for posting it.

Your comments are so on target.

How sad that so many worship at the altar of the car industry, rather than worshiping the God who is the true source. Maybe it was just a publicity stunt, but it was all in very poor taste.

For at least the last year, I have felt we should prepare for a time of contraction and living with less. I believe we will see a lot of poverty in the near future. We need to prepare ourselves emotionally and psychologically to live with less and on what we can afford.

Regardless of what Washington does with the auto industry, the days of making 70K per year in an auto plant with less than a high school diploma are gone. GONE. No matter how many SUVs we put on altars, times have changed. God will still care for those who are His.

Too bad for the congregants. Its one thing to be a leader and know what his agenda is, its another thing to be the innocent (?) sheep following along and possibly suffering (God forbid) the same fate as the leader.

I wonder how many congregants stayed home that day because they were against it. (like Korach vs Moses)

I have to say that I do feel for the congregants worried about losing their jobs and for the retirees worried about what might happen to their pensions and healthcare. True, God didn't promise us a rose garden, but I would be a hypocrite if I didn't admit to asking God to "let this cup pass from me" at times. When you lose your job in times like these and it's not easy to replace that job, that is a big worry. And for retirees whose pensions might get affected, and who might lose health care benefits (yes I know there's Medicare/Medicaid, but my parents are on Medicare/Medicaid and we (their daughters) have had to supplement that to the tune of $650 a week to provide them with the care they need - it ain't easy) - I understand their pain. So although I do agree with your point that putting those SUV's in the pulpit looks offensive, I fault the pastor for that bit of "theatricality", rather than the parishoners - they are just praying that things won't get humongously worse in the State of Michigan. IMO, they are just saying prayers that we have all said at some time in our life.

These large churches look more and more ridiculous and cultish as time goes by! Black or white churches, they are too follow fashion.

And this is how Jonestown got started people. How else could all those black people follow Jim Jones, a guy whose father was a Klan member and whose mother was a Native American without some kind of crazy cult-like mixed up fashion?

Instead of placing SUVs on stage and worshipping idols, the preacher should be teaching people to save their money and be less materialistic.

This is is the effect of all that untreated, undiagnosed, under-treated, and underdiagnosed mental illness withing the black community. PTSD, for all of the layity and Narcissistic Personality D/O for the leaders.

I actually wasn't offended by the suvs. There are many pastors who advocate for legislation that would benefit their members. After reading the rueters article, I can see how it could have been used as demonstrative.

I am biased on the survival of the Big 3, my father is a non-union retiree. Well, he was forced into retirement a year and a half ago. I'm not an economist, but I'm a daughter who sees her father's frustrations as he looks for a job. He's a 55 year old industrial engineer who is "over-qualified" for the jobs that are available in the area that he lives. I know God will see him through and I prayed for a bail-out with a naive hope that maybe my father could have his job back.

My prayer has always been to be given strength through tough circumstances. My father has been a living example of that for me. Arriving to work an hour early for 25 years just because. And more recently working 3 hours away from my mother as an independent contractor and having his contract end 6 months before it was expected to end. My prayer for this country is that we come through this recession stronger and with more opportunities for Americans who want to work.

This is just utter folly, but it's as serious as a heart attack. I don't get it nor why people didn't walk out of that spectacle. You know acknowledging hardship is the antithesis of Americanism because it has become synonymous with materialism, living on credit and outrageous consumption. Isn't Joel Osteen one of these prosperity preachers?

@la belle-;

Good point. I don't agree with using the church as this Pastor has done.

j.adea, I am in the same boat. However I am not old enough to retire even though I'm just a few years younger than your Dad. My last day on my job is Friday.

I can understand the people being concerned about losing their jobs. I can also praying for that because it has happened before with Chrysler. Even with that I still feel that expecting the government to bail us out is sending a wrong message, especially when it is evident that the problem is not the financial issues at hand but bad decision making. Other companies that make bad business decision file for bankruptcy. Many of them regroup. I will really be upset if they actually do this since no one is coming to help me out when I am out of work on Friday.

Gina,

Your post was powerful and AWESOME!!! I agree with the comment earlier that it was theologically sound. I would go further to say that it was prophetic because it confirmed what has been revealed to me by others in the ministry.

I personally been affected by this economy. It has been tough. But one of the things that keeps me going is that going through the fire is going to make me stronger. I stopped praying to get me OUT. I now pray to God to give me the strength to get me through. That means I keep praying, meditating, and studying his Word. I help others in need and I just keep moving.

For me, the recession is showing that we have to get back to the basics and appreciate what we have now and not the material stuff. I am thankful more than ever for a roof over my head, shoes on my feet, and food on my table.

Just my thoughts.....

I totally agree with you on this one Gina!, sometimes I hear folks say "the Benz is coming" in the church, and it bothers me, while I'm not of the opinion that poverty is next to Godliess, I never bought into the "Prosperity Gospel" either. I understand the plight of those who are facing joblessness, but the whole image of the pulpits being filled with hybrids was just odd.

Let me say first that I am a member and employee of Greater Grace Temple and I see you have a great misunderstanding of the service.

I came across your blog during a google search and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would like to point to you that it was not idol worship. The cars were merely a backdrop...an illustration for the service. At GGT we do illustratios and thematic services all the time.

On Easter, we have a Roman soldier on a horse, a donkey and assorted animals parading across the front. During a men's conference, we had a "rocketship." (Yes, it symbolized soaring to higher heights) and on Halloween, we have a To Hell and Back presentation complete with pyrotechnics.

A conventional church? No we are not and thank God for that. Let me invite you to visit our website and see what we are about as well as view the service for yourself. Perhaps it may give you a different viewpoint.

Let me also encourage you to check out an interview with Bishop Ellis conducted by a young man who shared your concerns about the service. He came away with a different outlook. It can be found at:
http://burnsidewriterscollective.blogspot.com/2008/12/interview-with-bishop-charles-ellis.html

Finally, yes we do believe in the so-called prosperity gospel. God is for people prospering spiritually and materially. Yes, suffering and challenges come in life, good God-fearing people may be down sometimes, but they don't "stay" down. God picks them up.

Psalm 1 says for the person who delights in God's Word, "everything" he or she does SHALL prosper. That's what it says and that's what it means.

and let us all say kaching!

I wish we could prosper educationally and rationally as well.

All that praying and profiling and whatcha got? A hybrid vote in the Congress (ya in the House and nay in the Senate). It is a shame the Black church is against same sex marriage, but at least this one mega-church supports hybrid-suv's.