Dunbar Village - RAZE IT TO THE GROUND AND SALT THE EARTH SO THAT NOTHING WILL GROW THERE! - How to Help.- Where in the World are the Rev's?
Sunday, August 5, 2007 at 9:38AM The Blogmother Victim of the Dunbar Village gang rape. Describing her neighbors' response immediately following the attack. (SOURCE)
I explained in Friday's post why I didn't post about Dunbar Village, how do you articulate the horror in words? Quite frankly it depressed the hell out of me. In another post about some foolishness in Georgia, we started addressing the gang rape in Dunbar Village of a woman by 10 African American teens who in addition to repeatedly raping the woman ( FOR OVER THREE HOURS) while beating her 12 year old son made them lie naked in the bath tub together and forced the woman to perform oral sex on her own child before burning her skin and blinding her son by pouring cleaning solution on their skin and eyes.
Oh yeah, and they took cell phone pictures of their deeds and were so brazen that one of these monsters left his condom behind. Surely indicating that they thought they would get away with it. Oh yeah, and the neighbors that didn't see or hear anything and are currently not talking to police.... Well not a single living thing in this "community " of folks even bothered to offer a glass of water when this was over. This woman and her blinded son had to trudge to the hospital in the dark on their own.
Why Raze this place to the ground?
"So a lady was raped. Big deal," resident Paticiea Matlock said. "There's too much other crime happening here." ( Source)
Or maybe it should be razed to the ground for this reason alone:
Neighbors did not respond to her screams, and no one called the police. The victims ended up walking a mile to the nearest hospital afterward. (Source)
For three hours, the two say, the 35-year-old Haitian immigrant was raped and sodomized by up to 10 masked teenagers as her 12-year-old son was beaten in another room. (Source)
Or raze it to the ground because of this lovely fact about another crime by the residents of another complex less than a mile away from Dunbar Village:
A 14-year-old Mangonia Park boy has been charged with raping and robbing a 42-year-old woman only a few steps from her apartment while his friends waited and watched, some shouting "Hurry up" and "Me next." ( Source)
Or how about this tidbit:
Two of the three teenagers arrested in the Dunbar Village gang rape are related to imprisoned members of ( a gang I refuse to promote on this blog)...People in the neighborhood kind of look up to the (gang I refuse to promote)," he said. "As we lock them up, some young kids started calling themselves (name you can read for yourself in the link)...On MySpace - a social networking Web site - friends profess allegiance to the three Dunbar teenagers arrested in the rape and express hope that they will be freed. (Source)
What the HELL is going on in these housing projects in Florida and you can best be darn tooting sure that this foolishness is going to spread. All the gated communities in the world can't keep psychopaths like this out. It does not matter if you or your children are not engaged in crime and foolishness, this still can affect you. The victim kept her son on the straight and narrow, which was probably one of the reasons why she was targeted:
Dunbar Village was the only place the 35-year-old Haitian immigrant could afford on what money she got by selling Avon products or delivering phone books. Each day, she would shower, cook for her son, braid hair for her friends, and hope for relief from her chronic backaches. She was a university student in Haiti who came here and worked in a nursing home until she fell and hurt her back. She did not socialize with neighbors or buy the sin some of them sold. On Sundays, she made sure her son's slacks were pressed, his tie knotted handsomely. She wore a bright smile and her best dress and drove two miles to the services in French and Creole at St. Ann Catholic Church. (SOURCE)
Watch. This editorial explains why we can expect more of the same in a neighborhood near you.
WE CAN'T LET THIS PLACE EXIST. PERIOD!
This country simply cannot let a place like this exist. We can't let a community that will ignore what surely were cries and screams emanating from that apartment with paper-thin walls . We can't let a community that had to have at least one person seen a bleeding, beaten, blinded mother and son trudging out of their apartment, but didn't lift a finger to offer a ride to the hospital or call a cab or maybe if 911 was too much of a stretch, they could have called 411. Even now, when only 3 of the 10 are in custody, that "community" from reports isn't doing much to assist law enforcement with apprehending the remaining assailants.
Raze it to the ground, relocate the folks, disperse the foolishness. Just because they are poor doesn't mean we should tolerate them living in HELL on EARTH.
The single mothers and children who fill most of the apartments at Dunbar Village — a housing project on the poor, black, north side of this city — are used to nightly gunfire. They are used to theft, assault, murder and the indifference of federal and local authorities. (SOURCE)Relocate them. Raze the place to the ground and let it serve as a monument that the great social experiment of packing a bunch of poor folks on top of each other and then abandoning them is a FAILURE. The public policy folks got this one WRONG. Start over, but don't let these people continue to live like this. If they don't have the initiative or wherewithal to claw themselves out out of hell, then the nation must give them a push, but we can't sit back and accept these conditions in America or anywhere else on the planet for that matter. Some of the current residents understand that Hell on Earth is no HOME at all.
[Female resident] is one of few Dunbar Village residents speaking openly about the attacks. Others agreed to be interviewed but would not give their names, fearing consequences. The police said many had shrunk away from their questions, a longstanding problem in the neighborhood. (Source)
Outside another unit, Calvin Jones, 71, said he would leave with his 13-year-old granddaughter this weekend. They came to Dunbar Village from Gulfport, Miss., after Hurricane Katrina, Mr. Jones said, and now they were going back — though with no home.
“If you knew that happened,” he asked, “would you stay here?” (SOURCE)
Exactly Calvin!
Where is Jesse Jackson with an offer of a college scholarship? This woman was a university student too!
Folks I feel a " Sharpton-Jackson-NAACP-Black Elite Establishment- Watch" coming on. I can feel it in my bones. I am telling you the Universe is sending signals again. Alll of them need to be clowned until they issue a press release indicating that they have made a very sizable donation to the fund listed below. E-mail me if you think you or your blog are interested. whataboutourdaughters at gmail.
They are saying that you can go to ANY Wachovia bank no matter where you live. Don't just be mad. Help another human being out. Our civic and social organizations are too busy helping out a multimillionaire professional football player who engaged in foolishness.
P.S. Why isn't this getting the Natalie Hollaway, Lacie Peterson, Chandra Levy, Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramesy, 24-hour news cycle attention until they capture each and every suspect?
65 Comments | Share Article Al Sharpton, Crime, Jesse Jackson in Dunbar Village
Reader Comments (65)
This story troubles my soul greatly. I cannot express the sorrow I feel for this mother and her son.
Do you know the level of inhumanity it took to defile one of the most sacred relationship on this Earth (i.e. a mother and child)? WT_???
The Bible tells the poor will be with us always. For whatever reasons, they will always be people that will keep themselves in perpetual proverty.
With that being said, every project should be torn down and replace with affordable detached housing.
You know what, this is NOT poverty's fault. Even the poorest most uneducated person can have an upright moral compass. They not getting the poverty pass on this one.
I think that is the problem. We have been poor before. This madness is bigger than poverty. There is something much more serious at work here and we better figure it the hell out. FAST before this ends up at a town near you.
I mean this woman was safer in Haiti than in the United States? And the neighbors are just beyond a trip. At least the man from Mississippi has a CLUE- Get the hell out.
WTH??
Just a caveat: I know that the response from the residents of Dunbar Village was inexcusable, but let's be clear---rape is a problem throughout the United States and the world, and rapes can happen in any community. The whole neighborhood doesn't need to be raised, because the people living in Dunbar Village are no more violent or inhumane than anyone else.
When I say that rape can happen anywhere, and that apologists for rapists are everywhere, I know exactly what I'm talking about. The actvist community here had to deal with a white guy who was date-raping women within our (largely white, middle-class, and college-educated) community, and we are people who pride ourselves on fighting sexism and sexual violence. Still, this guy had folks who enabled him and made excuses for him and blamed the victims. This crap happens all the time, and you know why?
Because ALL OF US, you and me, are socialized in a rape culture, where we learn to blame women and children for the brutal acts that are done to them. Get raped at a party? What are you doing there in the first place? Get raped walking home at night? You should be at home at night! Get raped in your own house? Well, where the hell do you go if you can't be in your own house? And that's the problem.
I posted this story a few weeks ago on Mirror On America.
I am glad that you are now giving it some attention. I agree wholeheartedly...that the NAACP and all the rest of em... always seem to have their priorities mixed up. This case is no exception.
Thanks again...
It seems that we have lost a few generations of our youth. What was as shocking as the act itself was the ages of the perpetrators (14-17 years old) and this is just an incident that we KNOW about - I wonder what other unspeakable acts they've committed. This is more than I can wrap my mind around.
"There is something much more serious at work here and we better figure it the hell out. FAST before this ends up at a town near you."
mark bey: Gina This is in every town, a coworkers 15 year old brother was shot and killed. According to witnesses, they heard him trying to breathe but he couldnt.
Guesse what even though the party he was at was full of people no one saw anything, no one reported anything to the police.
Also several children have been ran over in the distric of columbia and guesse no one male or females saw anything.
Its not just black men who are dysfunction its a large section of the black community.
Heck the fact that 92% of black americans are christians but yet we have over 60% of all black children born out of wedlock tells you all you need to know.
However I will admit that brothas are doing most of the damage specially when you factor in that most black children do not have a father in the house.
Based on those things is anyone really supprised about what those animals did to that lady and her son.
However I am with you about ramming a foot into al , Jesses and the Naacp hindparts. The nerve of the Naacp to make a statement about giving Michael Vick a fair trail in light of this hienous and brutal crime is more than I can stand I will be writing Reverend Al, Jesse and the Naacp.
Thank you for posting this black folks need to get outraged over this nonsense.
You are right. Being poor does not make you immoral and unrighteous. Forgive me, I am recovering from the bling bling ministry sermons. You know the ones that equate holiness with your portfolio. : - )
What I was attempting to say is that we have to help the poor when they are unable to protect and help themselves. Thus, HUD needs to provide relocation vouchers to the Dunbar Village residents and demolish Dunbar Village and all other projects throughout this Country.
The rapists are void of love (agape) and natural affection. In a nutshell, they need Jesus.
Evil can exist in any heart that allows it to enter whether or not the heart owner is rich or poor.
Sidebar: I do not fault the residents of Dunbar Village for being afraid to assist with the investigation. However, I will not give them a pass for not assisting the woman and her son by at least calling the authorities. WT_???
Human depravity can be found in every ethnic group, nationality and social class. But at the same time we forget our debt to the social norms of western civilization which have limited reach into some demographics.
Yes, rape can happen anywhere, but come on. This is a whole other animal we are talking about here. Please lets pause and fully take in the horrific details. 10 black male youths. 3 Hours of screaming while the neighbors do nothing. Forcing a mother to perform a sex act on her own child. Pouring bleach on them and then your neighbors tell the newspaper "so what".
Yeah I get the whole violence against women is everywhere and all groups act a fool, but I don't care what race, gender, geographic location, socioeconomic status. This was horrific on a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL.
Hate to compare suffering, yes, rape has been around since probably the cave man days, but this. No I think we need to pause for a moment because i don't think some of you get that a genie has been let out of a bottle. I suspect that they got their idea from the four black folks who carjacked, raped and murdered that white couple about a month prior to this incident.
This is right up there with James Byrd, lets not try to make this seem like this is your run of the mill crime. They all should disturb us, but this. this. this is depravity.Anarchy.
What I mean to say was that we will always have crazy individuals and sometimes crazy groups, but when you look at this crime and then the one a few weeks later where again, a 14 year old rapes a 42 year old woman less than a mile from Dunbar Village while his friends stand by yelling "hurry up" and "me next" there is something else going on that requires extreme measures being taken.
And one of the reasons I didn't post on it earlier was because I knew that other people wouldn't see what I see. This is no isolated incident. This behavior in South Florida is part of a clear pattern that is developing no doubt a result of the systematic dehumanization of Black women in popular culture.
What I meant to say was..... I know what Noah must have felt like when he was building the ark. This ain't no ordinary rain storm. That. is. all.
Y Carrington said ....The whole neighborhood doesn't need to be raised, because the people living in Dunbar Village are no more violent or inhumane than anyone else.
This place is not fit for human habitation. Would we let them live there if raw sewage was running throught he middle of the complex? WOuld we let them live there is a big huge container of nuclear waste was dropped in the middle of the courtyard? would we let them live there is there were exposed powerlines everywhere? Would we let them live there if there was no electricity?
HOw are any of those things anymore dangerous than a roving pack of out of control criminals?
I know folks love to look out for the poor. I am one of them. I feel we have a moral obligation to look out for them and we will be judged for not doing that, but It is inhumane to allow that place to be occupied by human beings when it is not fit for human habitation. Not from a structural sense, but from a cultural sense. I keep finding stuff that I want to say in response. I guess I should read and then wait 15 minutes.
Not ALL people are as "human" as you and me. That's the bitter truth for the "modern liberal mind". If a white upper middle class guy making $250k a year get's caught cheating on his wife with another woman (or man) we want his head. But far worse instances of social depravity goes on ALL OF THE TIME amongst the poor and borderline savage. IT'S A FACT. There are no absolutes with human beings. Many of them are kind and even saintly but as far as statistics and trends..well that's another matter.
So Christopher are you saying these folks came out of the womb as rapists? I just don't believe that. I think the Poverty industrial comp lex combined with the Misogyny Industrial Complex combined to crank out this result.
We screwed up the war on poverty and turned a blind eye to "hip hop" culture infecting the mainstream with its anti woman sentiments and did nothing.
I refuse to believe that these kids came into the world programmed to do this.
I heard about this story a couple of weeks ago too. I couldn't blog about it, couldn't wrap my head around it. It wasn't until brownfemipower started a discussion that I gathered the courage to respond. An interesting discussion took place.
Blackwomb
"Not All people are as 'human'as you and me."
Listen, I am as outraged as anyone about what happened to this woman, but those words are dangerous. Those are the kinds of words spoken before people get marched onto slave ships or into concentration camps.
Monsters are not born, they are created. We can write these boys off as animals because it makes us feel safe or we can face the fact that social and political forces that engendered them continue to exist. If we raze Dunbar Village tomorrow and throw every last one of these boys into a deep dark hole, we will have left the violence, depravity, and misogyny that are endemic to ALL of american culture untouched with a virtual guarantee that the victims and perpetrators of this heinous crime will be replaced tomorrow. I think that the protection of Black women demands an intense, persistent interrogation of the complex forces that oppress us. We will be powerless in that effort should we abandon our own humanity and the above quote constitutes such an abandonment in my opinion.
It does not absolve poor people of their moral responsibility to speak of that responsibility while engaging oppressive social structures. And it will not protect us to consider the crime against this woman a demonic aberration by inferior life forms. They are twisted, but as human as you and me and their violence and depravity are as american as apple pie.
I don't agree with christopher's everybody isn't as "human" statement. Thats some craziness right there, but I am not wavering on the need to send a strong message to public housing residents. You either step up and be a good citizen and assist the police and come to the aid of your fellow man or woman or go live off the land because I ain't subsidizing your housing anymore.
Right now the only people they fear are the criminals, they need to fear civil society as well. It is not an easy choice, but it is a choice many of us all make on a daily basis.
The second reason they should be razed is because that community is not fit for habitation. The culture of crime and silence is just as dangerous as if the buildings were not structurally sound. The county wouldn't hesitate to dismantle the place if the buildings were about to collapse on the residents.
NO, we will not allow people, no matter how poor, to reside in certain conditions such as a place with raw sewage int he courtyard even if they are willing to live there. To me this is the same thing.
And last, regarding abandoning humanity..... what do you think the systemic and relentless dehumanization of Black women in popular culture is doing?
I'm revoking the whole "poverty made you do it " card and the whole "they didn't have a daddy" card too. There are plenty of poor folk all over the world who aren't doing what these MONSTERS did.
We're missing the point here folks! If we want BETTER for BLACK folks, they black folks must expect BETTER from one another.
NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!! That was the major point about shutting down A Hot Ghetto Mess! NOT because it was making fun of lower class, less educated black folks, but because it was making pointless fun of ANY black folk period!!
The non-response of Hurricane Katrina ENDED me looking to the rest of society for any kind of assistance. Black folks must start looking out for themselves!!!! This waiting around to be saved it KILLING us.
I am stunned at reading the sad excuses being laid out here. Two of those rapists DID NOT even live in Dunbar Village. It means they KNEW where they could go to commit crime unchecked!!! Domestic violence, sexual abuse, and rape is grossly unreported and undiscussed in the black community - at all levels of economic income and social class!
Black folk went CRAZY when we thought a black woman was raped by some white frat boys at Duke. Now when the rapists are black, we're talking about unwed mothers and poverty? Being poor is not an excuse to give away your humanity.
The real and only question is this - What is wrong with black folk that we are SO unwilling to challenge one another to do better? And I mean everybody - no one in the black community is blameless in the poor state of affairs of blacks in America. We are all guilty!!!!
OMG Tracey, we are twin souls!
Just preach! Whew I was beginning to wonder if maybe I was the crazy one.
Tracey do you have a blog? if not, you need one or you have a standing invitation to become one of my guest bloggers on WAOD. Let me know if you are interested. hit me up on the gmail address. Some of your comments are worthy of their own post quite frankly and more times than not you manage to articulate the point I was trying to make much better than I do. I never claimed to be Shakespeare, only a pretty decent strategist and organizer who is passionate.
Yes, this event is Horrific and Tragic. But it is not New. This is Old. This is an example of a recurring problem that has yet to even be properly Defined or Understood, much less Solved.
This is not about laying blame on one socio-economic "issue" or another, because this problem is bigger than any one or three or five "issues" we can name. Poverty is not the cause of this problem, but it is one of the factors. Misogyny is also one of the factors, but it's not even the largest one.
This World we live in is too complex for anything to be the result of one influence. You can't just "revoke" the "poverty card" and the "No-Fathers card". Those things have a powerful influence on behavior, just as Mysogyny does. All three are contributing factors to this problem, but none of them could have created this problem without the others, and probably not without factors we have yet to mention here. Ignoring any of them can cause people to misunderstand the problem, and any potential solutions would be flawed due to that misunderstanding.
Cleansing this ground with Fire and salting the earth will do nothing- absolutely nothing- to affect this problem, except possibly make it worse by increasing the numbers of the homeless and further dividing the people of the area and this country along economic status lines.
I don't claim to know what the answer is, but I can see that Destruction is not the answer. Also, We will never even Find the answer unless We understand, completely and fully, what the problem is.
Okay, Gem and Tracey:
Do you both have the resources to relocate these people???? In fact, do you both have the resources to demolish Dunbar and all the remaining projects in the US????
Let’s just say my resources are somewhat limited. I have 3 small children to raise, a mortgage to pay, 401K to contribute to, taxes to pay and student loans to repay.
The reason I said HUD is because the Government takes $1,000.00 out of my paycheck per pay period. They can take my hard earned money along with the other monies they steal from other hard working people in this country every day and assist these people with relocation.
HUD has the resources and the capability to assist the Dunbar Village residents. HUD has implemented this type of relocation voucher program in my hometown of Paterson, NJ. HUD distributes relocation vouchers to Section 8 tenants living in “projects” to relocate any where in this Country. Once all the tenants have been removed, they demolish the high rise and/ row house tenements and replace them with better homes.
I am not giving the mega-churches a pass either. They too have the resources to assist these people in relocating to better housing.
Corporate America should not get a pass either. They too should pay a roll in funding relocation programs and building new houses. Each corporation could adopt a city and commit to assisting in the rebuilding of blighted communities.
The problem with America is that the love of money has overshadowed our love for our neighbor. We underestimate the power of faith, hope and love. We underestimate the power of better personal choices. We underestimate the power of an intact family unit (mother/father) has on the raising of children. We underestimate the power of character. We underestimate the importance of after-school programs and summer jobs. (Sidebar: An idle mind and evil heart are a dangerous combination).
Like Susan Taylor said in her Editorial in the July 2007 edition of Essence Magazine, the living elder generation has left the younger generation to figure it out for themselves. It is understandable. Many of you are first generation wealth recipients and got caught up with enjoying the trappings of your success.
This “black people do not need anyone, especially the government” attitude is about as intelligent as the Clarence Thomas “I pulled myself up by my own boot straps” stance.
No man is an island. We need each other. We need churches, the US government (all three branches), grass-root organizations, greek organizations, professional organizations, media, entertainment, and corporations to chime in and help heal America from materialism. A collective effort is needed.
Not a one-man (or woman) show.
Increase the peace,
Shwana aka “AttorneyMom”
It does not absolve poor people of their moral responsibility to speak of that responsibility while engaging oppressive social structures
do you really think that poor people haven't been trying to fix this? Do you really think that for the last how many decades that public housing has been around, poor folks haven't been organizing and doing everything they can to change things?
do you really think that only poor people rape and violate women? There's a case of young black college men in Minnesota who gang raped a black female college student--why don't we go tear down the university? Or is that an institution that middle class citizens value?
the problems that led up to this horrible crime are hundreds of years in the making. being poor does not cause a rape--but children raising themselves absolutely does. And when a single mother is working 15 or 16 hours a day and there's no community centers for kids to stay at because politicians and rich americans with the "get off your butt and get a job" mentality take away funding for the centers--where are kids supposed to go? What are kids supposed to do? who raises them? the same thing with poor people and extreme violence is happening in south africa and the congo and russia and haiti.
children were not meant to raise themselves that's why they were given elders to do it. poverty doesn't cause violence, but it does take parents away from children, just as sure as AIDS and war does. and when babies are raising themselves, this is what happens.
and in re: to the "ignored" screaming--why do you think nobody called about the screaming? could it be because poor communities have been screaming until they are sick about this violence and rich politicians, organizations, and citizens don't do crap?
Do you really think that calling would have done anything when people call for help all the time, and it takes police and ER crews some times up to two or three hours to show up if they show up at all? A young boy here in detroit called 911 because his mother was dying and the 911 receptionist hung up on him. Hung up on him even when his gasping and wheezing mother got on the phone and pleaded for help. Why? because he was from the ghetto part of town and the 911 folks have a policy that includes not having to take the calls from that part of town seriously.
it's not a crisis to 911 when a poor dying mother calls begging for help, why would it be a crisis when a poor community member calls about the random screaming they keep hearing at the house next door?
It's not a simple as all us poor folk being animals or monsters although that sure does feel good to dismiss it as such. There's blood on the hands of everybody who accepts that "the poor will always be with us"--like it's natural and right that some people of the world live in the kind of poverty people are required to live in just to have a place to call home.
until people start listening to poor folks, and giving us the credit that we just might know what's wrong with our communities better than middle class and rich folks do, until people start realizing that this capitalisitic system REQUIRES that there always be a class of poverty, that this system REQUIRES that those who are poor are demonized so that we can continue to pump money into the pockets of wealthy war mongers rather than poor neighborhoods, until people realize this is going to take decades to fix, not months, this will never get fixed.
AttorneyMom said... This “black people do not need anyone, especially the government” attitude is about as intelligent as the Clarence Thomas “I pulled myself up by my own boot straps” stance.
And how is this reliance on government working for the folks at Dunbar Village? I think what bothers me is everyone concluding that these folks are doomed to a life of poverty so lets just give em enough to survive. A little food, a little housing (which attracts violence and danger), let's give them a little police protection ( when the world looks at the city in horror), let us give them just enough to manage to make it. Alot of folks saying the solution is the government would sell their own plasma before relying on the government for anything. So if it is good enough for the residents of Dunbar village, why isn't it good enough for you?
I am fairly certain that with the amount of money they are pouring into the place right now they could relocate every resident. I don't think you have a choice when you can't insure their physical safety where they are.
Look at the Great Migration. Thousands of impoverished black folks managed to make it from Mississippi to Chicago. At some point things get so bad that a move is a very good thing. If I was a mother of three living in this war zone believe you me I could provide a laundry list of things she could do to get the hell out. How much is one of your daughters worth to you?
I knew my solution sounded radical, but I don't think the usual "solutions" offered ie more after school programs are going to fix this situation.
I also think it is inhumane to say. Well they are poor so they are stuck... too bad and then go on with their lives. There is a town in Iowa paying folks to move there. In Alaska, they are giving away land.
Wait a minute BrownFemiPower, why on earth would the world tolerate a place where even the police and 911 won't come? TO me that is Hell on Earth.In my city we had a man be beaten by a crowd at a housing project and he died. EMS got there, but the police wouldn't let them get to him until they had secured the scene. One of the first things the local news people did was start talking about response times. It should not be normal that the police won't respond or 911 won't respond.
I never said all poor folks were animals or monsters. There are millions of poor people who live their lives everyday in the same way that I do. I SAID way back in the comments somewhere that this is not a result of poverty. Something else broke down here.
And to the person who said this happens everyday....Read the facts of the case again.
GEM, please forgive me if I am misreading your comment. But I do not live in Dunbar Village.
I am fortunate. I got my education, have a great career and now live in the "burbs." I was just making the point that I cannot afford to help these people on the level that the Federal Government, Churches and Corporation can help them.
In an effort to form a more “perfect” Union, I think we (US Citizens) should demand fiscal responsibility from our elected officials. We should start paying closer attention to how our hard-earned dollars are spent by the government. We should also make our elected officials more accountable in addressing urban blight. Enough is enough.
Let’s just face it. Some people are just going to live off the government for the rest of their lives. With that being said, should not HUD place these individuals in better housing conditions?? Should HUD continue to shelve out money to local governments (who serve as the Landlords in many of these cases) for inhabitable and dangerous living conditions??? There are such things as Tenant's Rights.
I also think it is inhumane to say. Well they are poor so they are stuck...
but why is the solution to leave? Why isn't the solution to say anybody who is only making enough to pay 150$ in rent needs a pay raise? that any government that can afford to pay a billon dollars a week to slaughter two countries can darn well pay a billon dollars a week to improve the quality of living of poor people?
And will there ever be a time when we can all just stop running? Where we can grow roots and have communities? When we can also find the strength to confront all our problems and actually fix them?
I know i was pretty vehement in my original comment. I lived in the ghettos of flint for a long time, I know the reality of the lives of poor people--the reality that doesn't ever make it into the newspapers or the politicians press realeases. Poor people want this to change just as much as the next person does--I promise you. the thing is, they have different ways of "fixing' this--and nobody's listening.
I cannot believe the actual crime happened on June 18 and I'm just learning of it. I haven't even seen a single news clip. Amazing. And I hope everyone on here debating has sent in their check.
I'm interested in Tracey's question, one that we need to delve into. And, doing so doesn't mean we don't examine oppressive systems like racism and capitalism. But, as has been stated before, we can't wait around on somebody else to make our lives better.
Tacey: What is wrong with black folk that we are SO unwilling to challenge one another to do better?
1. Given American history (not just US), we have absorbed internalized racist oppression so much that it has altered our core. We can't forget that the acts committed in Dunbar Village are a mirror image of the acts committed against women of color during the estabilshment of the Americas. Gang rape, burning, slaughtering, etc., all in the homes of people of color. It was inhumane then and it is inhumane now. What is different is that now we doing this to ourselves. These young men probably don't know the extent of our history, and they don't have to. Centuries of brutality and victimization works on the psyche and it manifests differently depending on your socioeconomic status, education, gender, etc. We all (even educated folks) act out INTERNALIZED RACIST OPPRESSION in some form. BET is an example of acting out IRO. Sometimes we do it arrogantly and other times we do it unconsiously. And, the design of ghettos (the construction of them by the gov't) were designed to do exactly that -- inbreed IRO, inhumanity. No, they weren't born animals, but they were treated as animals and taught to believe they are animals and that a black woman( and children) are prey.
And, black leadership that is recognized by mainstream media can't raise hell about this because we would have to get into discussions about this because they have significant amounts of IRO too, which manifests as being beholden to white corporations. They can talk about dog fighting or other racist acts, but when it gets into asking questions about psyche and internalized racist oppression, this country, black folk, white folk, brown folk, NO ONE is ready for that. As June Jordan asks in "Poem About My Rights," "Who the hell set things up this way?"
2. Within African American public discourse, which is beholden to white media for national and global coverage, we fail to see how black people in the diaspora are US. We are ONE people. This is a Haitian, a black, a woman, and a person who is poor. A part of our IRO as African-Americans is to distance ourselves from blacks in the diaspora. Coupled with our gov'ts need to keep us divided (for God-forbid is black folk AND people of color across the globe came together), she's is not one of us.
Again, many people beleive a discussion about internalized racism negates overt acts, deliberate acts of oppression by whites living in a capitalistic society. It does not. But, we gotta get to the stuff we have internalized. And, Black middle-class folk aren't immune to this; our shit just manifests in other ways.
Attorney Mom i don't actually think we are disagreeing on the main point which is... if government is going to take it upon itself to invite people to live on it's property or assume responsibility for housing folks, it must do so in a responsible and reasonable manner.
I personally believe putting poor folks in an enclave and forgetting about them is inhumane and I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for the perpetuation of in humanity.
Brownfemipower, irrespective of how folks may feel about any war waged by any government at any particular time. national defense and police power are the fundamental responsibilities of a government. So of course the government is going to spend alot of money on war and defense. That is one of its fundamental obligations. I am not talking about the legitimacy or prudence of the actual action, but the principle that shared national defense is actually something a government SHOULD be responsible for.
On the other hand, the federal government probably hsould not be in the business of providing long term housing for poor people for generations. Creating programs to assist folks get land like the homesteading or interveining in the event of a natural disaster and a castastrphic loss of housing stock yes. But one of the reasons public housing sucks is because government just isn't a very good landlord.
I didn't grow up rich either. I grew up in the hood and folks weren't rich, but they were moral.
That is why i am not buying this whole poor folks are this way because they are poor rationalization. Something else is going on.
To BROWNFEMI:
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your post or if you misunderstood mine. But my intention in making the statement that you referenced in your post was to highlight the need to involve issues of historical oppression, unfair labor conditions, unsupportive institutions for single mothers, substandard education and the rest in any meaningful discussion of personal responsibility/morality.
I know precisely what poor people are doing to improve their circumstances because for a great deal of my life I've been one of them. My point is that (a la the Cosby rant) for too many Black middle class people there is an unfortunate/unnecessary disconnect between personal responsibility and oppressive social structures when discussing the poor. Unfortunate because it gets us no where and unnecessary because we can hold people responsible for the bad things they do WHILE concerning ourselves with the reasons they do them. We must demand more from Black people-poor or otherwise-WHILE addressing the broader/deeper forces (social,political, historic, economic)that support the inhumanity at Dunbar Village and elsewhere. The absence of the latter, in my opinion, makes the former a useless, masturbatory exercise. I hope that these comments contribute to a better understanding. I agreed with a great deal that you said in your post.
To g-e-m2001:
If the county "dismantled the place" because the "buildings were about to collapse" and then proceeded to put up an identically faulty structure next door, what good has the county done? I'm saying that razing Dunbar Village does not address the underlying factors that exist in communities all over this country that will contribute to the recreation of this tragedy next door.
Furthermore, "playing the poverty card" like "playing the race card" suggests to me a fatigue that the culture has not earned. We're sick of hearing about race and poverty, but in fact we haven't dealt with either. That's why issues of race, poverty, and gender continue to bubble up.
I'm really not interested in offering excuses or giving out "poverty passes." I'm clear that monsters are not unique to lower socioeconomic echelons and that there are plenty of people who struggle in poverty and live honorable lives. But abject poverty and hopelessness do exponentially increase the potential for these kinds of outcomes and I don't see how demolishing a building addresses that.
Public housing has disturbed me since my cousin asked me to spend the night so I could watch her kids while she left to stand in line at 3:00am in order to get an appointment just to APPLY for a public housing unit. I went over there and saw women who spent the night, some arrived at 11pm, to find apartments.
After standing in lines for hours some were even turned away without an appointment because there were only so many given a month. So they had to go back and wait until the next month.
And if they did qualify the waiting list was anywhere from months to a year or more depending on the number of rooms they needed.
I do have a post on my blog about the current programs such as HOPE VI which Bush wants to eliminate. A current bill is in the Senate lingering so feel free to demand this program isn't cut OR underfunded.
http://essentialpresence.blogspot.com/2007/08/american-slums.html" REL="nofollow">American Slums
We all have different sensibilities that impact how we respond to adversity.
For example, for some poverty, sexism and racism are great motivators. They motivate them to become successful or better people.
For some, these same factors can make them angry to such a degree that they are self-destructive and community-destructive.
This is why I am a strong proponent of Gospel (the Good News) of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ message was one of simple love and liberation to the entire human race.
I think the biggest mistake was quarantining Jesus into the “Christian” Religion. His message is liberating and universal. It transcends Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and any other man-made religion. Jesus said that he has come that “you [every human being] may have life and have it more abundantly.”
Education, material possessions, church attendance and good parenting cannot eradicate evil from a person’s heart, but Jesus can. Nothing can eradicate generational curses, but Jesus can. Nothing can give you peace in the mist of trouble, but Jesus can. Nothing can heal a troubled soul, but Jesus can. Nothing can eradicate the power of sin over a man/woman/child, but Jesus can.
Man is powerless to solve the sin problem within himself. This is why the Great Liberator came to deliver us from evil and reconcile us to our Heavenly Father (our Creator). Jesus came to heal the relationship between the Creator Jehovah and his children.
In John 14:6: Jesus states, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
"So Christopher are you saying these folks came out of the womb as rapists? I just don't believe that. I think the Poverty industrial comp lex combined with the Misogyny Industrial Complex combined to crank out this result."
Gem- Monsters and criminals aren't born they are made..The same is true of decent, conscientous civic minded "normals" like you and me. You are the product of presumably caring adults, a more or less "sane" network of friends and your own choices and personal chemistry. We tend to take for GRANTED the conditions that make YOU AND ME able to be horrified and critical of these things. Modern civilization is not perfect and we've come thru numerous episodes of systematized racism, sexism, war and other injustices but it IS self-reflexive and reform minded. The miracle in modern society is that SO MANY people are otherwise moral and sociable. I resent the knee jerk characterizations of my assertions. That whole mis-quote b.s. but let's face it, without cultivation a garden will grow both weeds AND fruit indescriminately.
To gem2001,
I happened to be listening to Rev. Al's radio show today (August 6) and was shocked that a listener asked him about the silence surronding the Dunbar gang rape. The listener noted the double standard of how Black leaders and even many Black people will declared war on suspected White rapists (Duke team, anyone), but ignore actual Black rapists.
Rev. Al had to admit that the listener was right about the existence of a double standard. Rev. Al didn't say he'd go the Dunbar, but he's sadly done a lot more than Jesse Jackson or the NAACP on this.
That indifference is frankly as sick as the crime.
To attorneymom,
You're are so correct about the rapists in Dunbar Village needing Jesus. Their victims lived in the same neighborhood, but didn't succumb to its evil. I noticed that the victims went to church so the only reason for them not following Dunbar's evil element was being saved through Christ.
Hence, I honestly think that saving the lost is the only way places like Dunbar are going to change for the better. Sure, it's tempting to raze Dunbar to the ground, but it doesn't address the spiritual sickness that's the root cause of this horrific crime.
new girl--i'm sorry I was so vehement in my comment. I wasn't talking to you specifically, I was talking about the entire post and many of the comments.
I definitly see your point and I agree with you on many levels. The one thing I do get nervous about when it comes to the "personal responsibility" thing--It often requires that the person being "helped" meet the "helper" half way--which most times, doesn't recognize the power that the "helper" has over the "helped"--so it doesn't recognize that a youth isn't being a jerk, so much as the adult working with the youth has done nothing but pressure the youth to change. People have helped child soldiers in the Sudan and other areas heal from the trauma and pain they caused themselves by hurting others--but those people also had to be willing to go to lengths many of our leaders and community members just aren't willing to go.
I know it may seem naive, but I feel that we have to believe that we can change these kids, that we can change these projects and every other bad thing in our community. If we don't believe in ourselves, who will?
The one thing I do get nervous about when it comes to the "personal responsibility" thing--It often requires that the person being "helped" meet the "helper" half way--which most times, doesn't recognize the power that the "helper" has over the "helped"--so it doesn't recognize that a youth isn't being a jerk, so much as the adult working with the youth has done nothing but pressure the youth to change.
What is bad about pressure to change? You got roving gangs of Black youths in Florida preying on middle aged Black women.(two separate incidents a mile apart.) How do we apply for UN Peacekeepers in the projects of Florida because if this had happened in Africa instead of America, I can assure you that folks would not be on here screaming about poverty. They would be screaming that troops had not been sent in to stop it.
Let's not poo poo personal responsibility. it is not sexy. It is not fun. It means you have to take control of your life, delay gratification, make sacrifices but it works! And again, ALl poor people are not immoral so this whole "its poverty's fault" it is the "guvment's fault" that this happened, I ain't buying it
For those who are relying on the guv'ment to drag folks kicking and screaming out of poverty, You have to climb out of poverty and it is not easy and you might not make it out in your generation, maybe it will be your children that make it out, but are we content to keep doing what we've always done and keep getting the same result. Actually we are getting worse results because basically African American males are fleeing these places and leaving behind a pack of their sons who clearly get their cues from a fount of hatred for women. We can debate whether it is from music, movies, television or scenes from their own lives.
To g-e-m2001:
I'll ask again because I really am interested in your response. If the county "dismantled the place" because the "buildings were about to collapse" and then proceeded to put up an identically faulty structure next door, what good has the county done? I'm saying that razing Dunbar Village does not address the underlying factors that exist in communities all over this country that will contribute to the recreation of this tragedy next door.
Furthermore, "playing the poverty card" like "playing the race card" suggests to me a fatigue that the culture has not earned. We're sick of hearing about race and poverty, but in fact we haven't dealt with either. That is why issues of race, poverty, and gender keep bubbling up. I'm really not interested in offering excuses or giving out "poverty passes." I'm clear that monsters are not unique to lower socioeconomic echelons and that there are plenty of people who struggle in poverty and live honorable lives. But abject poverty and hopelessness do exponentially increase the potential for these kinds of outcomes and I don't see how demolishing a building addresses that.
did I poo poo personal resposibility? I have worked with these kids, I have friends working in the middle of detroit, I am speaking from experience. personal responsibility is something that must be built up, not forced through shaming and demanding. personal responsibility is a luxury. it's the sign that somebody had parents or grandparents or teachers or friends *somewhere* that looked out for and cared for the child on some level.
as hard as it is to imagine, there are far too many kids where this simply doesn't happen. instead of daycare centers, they are left at home with drug addicted relatives while parents work. They go to school, where they experience a prison like atmosphere and they are bullied or initiated into gangs with other kids who have been similarly neglected. Then they go to the streets after school is over and *maybe* some time late, they might finally come home and see a parent who then tries to whup their butts as desperate way to exert control--control they lost years ago. where do those kids learn personal responsibility in there?
Listen, I'm not saying, we must baby these kids along and never ever have expectations of them. What I *am* saying is that the streets of flint and detroit and so many other of our cities are *war zones*.
I think the biggest thing we can do to help those living in war zones, is recognize the conditions they live under--and start where they're at. show a commitment to them that we're going to start where they're at and we're not going anywhere until they are strong enough to join us.
placing qualifications on their lives--I'm only going to work with you unless you have personal responsibility--what's the first thing that's going to happen with a kid who doesn't even know what personal responsibility is? he's going to rebel. He's going to say screw you. He's not even *at* the level where you can make demands on him. He's at a different place--and that has to be recognized. not just because the kid deserves it, but because you're not going to reach him otherwise.
there's this one group in detroit that works with kids and their low riders. Low riders have long had a culture of being not only sexist and lacking of values (much like rap), but ALSO being ganglike and violent. But the kids loved the low riders. so this dude went into the community and said, i'll help you fix up your low riders and enter them into competitions. I'll give you cameras and lessons on how to take pictures--i'll give you the place to work and the materials you need to do the work. And in return, we're going to talk about this sexism stuff and this violence stuff.
eventually, he earned a good reputation amongst the kids, and he earned the right to demand that they not do certain things if they wanted to be a part of the group. He had met the kids where they were at and gave the things that they enjoyed the respect that they deserved--and from their the kids were willing to work with him.
It's a commitment to work with youths. It's a commitment because we have to be willing to admit that we have failed our youths in ways that we don't even know about. we have to be willing to take responsibility too, and that's something many adults who are used to having complete power and control over youths just aren't willing to do.
brownfemi- well put. Intervention is a difficult discussion.."am I my brother's keeper?" It becomes a little clearer when dealing with minors because even the President's son, or the Supreme Court Judge's daughter and so on , isn't REALLY responsible or accountable for their actions. But what do you do with the emotionally, psychologically and culturally crippled adult (from our perspective on the norms of well-adjustedness)? These are problems of grace AND justice.
Christopher lee said... brownfemi- well put. Intervention is a difficult discussion.."am I my brother's keeper?" It becomes a little clearer when dealing with minors because even the President's son, or the Supreme Court Judge's daughter and so on , isn't REALLY responsible or accountable for their actions.
Who is going to "keep" the middle aged Black women in Florida while we rescue a couple of generations of children who raised themselves?
Yeah grace and mercy are all well and good, but so is justice
Rape should not be about skin color, class or any other factor; it should be about justice for the survivor.
This kind of action knows no boundries. You can find it in any class, color, or country. Look up Abeer Qassim Hamza.
The only thing that ties them all together is a society that devalues women and treats them like dirt. All oppression is built off of this type of devaluation.
Jen,
Lets not be naive okay. Tell that to the women of Bosnia, Darfur, and many other places around the planet where women of a particular identifiable group were targeted for systematic sexual assault.
So people can keep acting as if there is not a pattern in West Palm Beach of roving gangs of teenage boys targeting African American women and making them prey, but please don't ask me to join you in your delusion.
People keep trying to put this in the "crime as usual" box, but it won't fit there no matter how hard you try.
Yesterday evening I had the pleasure of hearing Gina on News and Notes. I agreed with her statements and her passion; however, I was left with my question: who are our women leaders? I do not expect nor do I want Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Eric Mike Dyson. Tavis Smiley, Cornell West and others to soley speak on our behalf. I want black women to be visible, present and a force to be reckoned with.
Too many black women are being silenced by both black men and women. People like us have to be visible, supported and committed. I have no need for the spotlight. My goal is to ask and require that we call each other out in truth. The continued disrepect and misogyny of black gilrs and women stops on the watches of people like you and me! We are protected by God Almighty. Let's do whatever it takes.
My name is Terri Meredith, and I was advised of this crime almost immediately after it happened...when I was able to confirm it, I went on a myspace/email rampage that I know largely contributed to this becoming a global discussion. I am thankful for that. I am HOPEFUL that while we try to come to terms with this that we don't forget to make donations to the St. Ann's Victim Assistance Fund. My poetry venue raised over $1500 in two weeks and much more that can't be accounted for through radio interviews and media spots...but nothing helps like getting to the bank and making a donation. Donations are now coming in from all over the world because as a mother and as a human, allowing this to be relegated to a soon to be snuffed local tragedy simply would not do. Thank you for caring enough to discuss and "do". Available to answer any of your questions terrispeakz@yahoo.com
I read this story and it sickened my heart. I will pray for this lady and her son in hopes that they find some comfort in knowing that people do care. I care, I hurt for them, and I will do my best to help them. I am deeply saddened by this horror that they went through. I will make a contribution at the bank for this family.
Where are our leaders? I will tell you where they are. They are following the media. Hoping to get attention at the drop of the N word, or defending a celebrity. They are not true leaders. They have no compasion for the black blood that is spilled on our streets every day in this country. They could care less about about horrendous crimes such as this. Young black children getting their brains blown out by a young black man who thinks nothing of his life or anyone elses. But you can count on Al Sharpton to defend Beyonce when TMZ makes an unkind remark about her. Al Sharpton is not a leader. He is a media clown. Jesse Jackson is not a leader. He is useless. And the beat, the sad, tireless drone of young men glamorizing their demise, degrading women, celebrating their self-hatred - that beat goes on, and on, and on.
Organizations such as WhatAboutOurDaughters, ColorOfChange, Acorn, is how we can make a change. We can find strength and unity. We are stronger than we realize. We must take our future in our own hands. Now.
As for Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton - well, they will show up. Once this gets national media attention, you can count on them to show up.
the unfortunate thing is we depend on the "visable" and "famous" rev's but there are dozers of pastors (including myself) that are reaching out and serving the community. loving and serving is happening on grass roots level and its amazing to see a community bond together, sans al and jesse (who cares anyway).
dang, i love your blog!
This troubles me and eats at the very core of my being, we seem to spend an awful lot of time running after mindless things, why are we as a people not teaching our children better. This level of hate and disregard for the life of another human being is just not tenable.