MSNBC - African American Women: Where They Stand

Professor Tracey, WAOD Contributor

Sorry ladies, I wasn't impressed. Tonight's segment was much improved, but once again, poorly thought out. The black women's roundtable was interesting and heartfelt, but represented a limited perspective. I am personally trying to escape the big black monolith. I no longer desire to be lumped in with every single black person in the world and I do not wish to be bunched together with every single black woman in the world. After watching the extended segment twice, all I could think was -

Do ALL black women want the same things in life?

Does EVERY black woman have the desire to be married? Don't we all know at least one friend or relative that seriously has absolutely no interest in marriage?

Is EVERY black woman MEANT to be married? Don't we all know at least one friend or relative that is an awful wife?

Is EVERY black woman MEANT to be a MOTHER? Don't we all know at least one friend or relative that is an awful mother?

Is EVERY black woman that is married HAPPY and FULFILLED? Don't we all know at least one friend or relative that is more alone in their marriage than they ever were as a single person?

I think marriage is wonderful...for some people. I think motherhood is beautiful...for some people. I just don't believe that your life as a black woman is somehow lacking, incomplete or a failure if you don't become someone's wife or someone's mother.

Read the rest of our posts about this NBC series.

Comments

[Attorneymom]

Whatever state you are in, learn to be content.

Sidebar: Professor, can you add some titles to your posts??? LOL. I am just saying.

[Tami]

You are right. The way that society defines women by whether or not they are wives and mothers frustrates me, particularly as someone who has chosen not to have biological children. However, it comes down to desire. I would venture to guess that most women, black women included, DO want to be wives and mothers, and and it is a problem that we cannot fulfill those desires as easily as women of other races.

[g-e-m2001]

Now wait a minute Professor. I think the point of the piece was that even if we don't have the fairy tale, we can still be happy. I thought that was the point of including the segment about adoption.

That being said. They couldn't do a segment on EVERY living situation known to man. I actually thought that an inherent message was that these three Black women didn't have the traditional lifestyle. One was divorced. One was dating for 14 years (SMH) one got married AFTER the kids were grown.

And sorry folks. A nice little chunk of all women wan to be married and have children.

If you've elected to make a different choice that is cool too.

[JJ]

What Gina said.

Most women want to be married with kids. And that is who that segment pertained too.

Not wanting to be is fine but you're still in a minority.

[Professor Tracey]

Please tell me how you nice ladies KNOW that MOST black women want to be married? I don't recalled being polled about my feelings about marriage lately.

In addition to the women who choose to be single, I would imagine there is a large number of DIVORCED black women that are NOT interested in marrying again and there is a nice group of GAY black women that marriage is not an issue period.

In a society that frequently overlooks black women, how are we SO sure what the average black woman wants or thinks?

[SheCodes]

I thought the segment was a slight improvement. At least I didn't want to throw my shoe at the TV.

I would have preferred if they also showed a black woman happily married to a black man, because many of those marriages do exist, for heaven's sake! I'm not saying 'make it about black men', I'm just saying to give examples using the actual percentages of what's really there.

Professor Tracy, I think you're fighting an uphill battle because every society I know of teaches us from birth that finding a protecting and providing man and having his babies is our main purpose. After all, it's still the best way to promote the species.

I do think that we have taught the lesson so well, that many women feel like absolute failures if they haven't done the above, and make terrible and harmful choices concerning men in order to avoid this supposed 'failure'.

Also, if people took 1/10 of the same energy and pressure used to teach girls 'their place', and used it to teach boys that they should be committed & faithful partners, designed to protect and provide for a wife and babies, we might not see so much tension in this area.

[SheCodes]

Professor Tracy, you might be right that a whole lot of black women don't want to be married, but my guess is that most of them feel that way because of the piss poor choices that are out there.

Who doesn't like love? If there was a plethora of respectful, engaging men who wanted face the world with us, have our backs with our goals, contribute financially to the household, and set the bedroom ablaze with sexual glory and splendor 4x a week... do you REALLY think that the majority of sisters would say 'no thanks'?

But I do agree that sisters who are not heterosexual need to be acknowledged too.

[Miss Issues]

Professor Tracey, I understand where you are coming from on the pushing the point that all black women don't want to be married.

At this point in my life, I am one of those women. People assume I'm gay or scorned, but that's not the case. Some women don't see the benefit of being married or don't want to married at a certain time in their life.

As a mother, I never push the idea of getting married as the empathy of being a woman. I encourage my daughters to seek what they want in life first. So many young women get so caught of in finding a husband they lose themselves in the process. Having a man and being married is hard work. Unfortunately, when many black women get married we put the needs and wants of our husband above our own.

[Mes Deux Cents]

Hi all,

I would add that the trend among professional women is to marry later. So taking a snapshot of a particular moment really does not give the whole picture.

If we were to re-visit many professional women who are single in 5 or 10 years the demographic picture might be very different.

So even though the claim is that 70% of us are not married, that might change considerably in time.

Thanks

[SheCodes]

Actually that 70% figure is the number of OOW babies. And many of those are by the same mother, so there is a large group of single, childless black women out there. Many of us are adopting (I am seriously considering it myself).

The percentage of never-married black women (of appropriate age) is somewhere between 39% and 43%. Still an astoundingly high number, but it's not 70%.

[Tami]

While I don't have statistical data, I believe that most black women want to be wives and mothers because our society encourages ALL women to feel that way, and we are as succeptible to those pressures as anyone. Of course there are women who choose a different path, but I think those women are in the minority.

I should add that being a lesbian does not mean a woman doesn't wish to get married. It simply means that under current law she can't in most states.

I thought the tone of this episode of the report was more positive that previous ones.

[Mes Deux Cents]

Shecodes,

Oops, with so many stats and percentages aimed at us I get them confused. (lol)

Sorry about that, I don't want to make all the data on us any worse.

I hope you got my point though.

[diana]

I wonder when they'll tackle the issue of why, in the US, a young African American woman with a bachelor's degree still makes less money than a white man with only a high school or GED diploma?

source:
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/perinc/new03_000.htm

Much easier for the white menz to ponder on the "problem" of women who never marry. Can we move on?

(Not that it matters but I personally find being single very liberating. I just don't have room for a man and it wouldn't be fair to him anyway, he'd be #3 in my life, after my child and my career.)

[Attorneymom]

Diana writes, "a young African American woman with a bachelor's degree still makes less money than a white man with only a high school or GED diploma?
-------

Yes, can we talk??? Racial disparity in salaries is very important to me. Although I am making a decent salary, I know that I am underpaid as a corporate attorney according to salary.com.

[diana]

Oh yes, you know they won't say it to your face,

But employers pay white women less and African American women even less because they think everyone else is doing it so they can get away with it.

I wish they would do a secret survey (or maybe one has been done) to test for that.

I wonder if that topic was simply rejected by the producers of the nightly news or if it was even brought up.

[Teacher (a.k.a Professor I've]

I'm sorry, this is such garbage. I can't take it anymore. Last night's report was so depressing, all of these road-weary women sitting in a dark room, like they were revealing the deep dark secrets of their lives. No one expressing what they liked about their lives outside of their children or expressing the joy of singlehood. And I'm really starting to resent the characterization of interracial marriage as a last resort for Black women. I don't appreciate the implication that I chose my husband as either a consolation prize or an upgrade from a Black man. This type of reductionist portrayals of relationships obscure the realities we all know--finding someone is hard, being in a healthy relationship is the elusive goal, and we live in a society that does not support strong commitments.

Also, has it occured to ANYONE that one of the reasons behind this alleged 'marriage crisis' is that individual people have experienced some negative things from their two-parent families/communities (abuse, incest, economic hardship, disrespect, general dysfunction, addiction,etc.)? Or that marriage does not seem like the end all and be all if you watched your family structure erode? Could it be that single women are just smart and remain single by choice?

Why is there no constructive discussion about the very serious emotional scars that many Black women have endured inside of their homes, and how these scars contribute to problems in relationships and seeking partnership?

Every time I hear someone say they can't find any good men, I often aske, "How many do you want?" Look, I do not believe it is easy to find a partner, but I also don't think we can really discuss anything regarding relationships unless we get honest about the reluctance to discuss the links between damaged relationships and some very painful, psycho-social stuff as well. Let's start promoting counseling, therapy and, when appropriate, medication.instead of Tyler Perry movies and "Soulmates" as avenues to healing oneself.

Yes, some men won't like that you are educated. This is not a lie. So, don't date them. This is not where the analysis ends, this is the beginning. This should be the place where Black women think of how they can better engage with the destruction of patriarchy, instead of nodding to it or simply complaining about it and trying to fit this into their lives. That is why there are highly educated women out there playing games, complaining abou this issue, but our communities support us when we denigrate ourselves in order to have a man. How many times have you expressed little to no interest in a Black man and your friends try to convince you not to let go of a 'good Black man,' instead of affirming that you are a good Black woman and have the right to say no to the Black man. It's as if there is nothing else.

Alright, I got to get back to my job, I don't know if I can make it to Saturday!

[JJ]

Who doesn't like love? If there was a plethora of respectful, engaging men who wanted face the world with us, have our backs with our goals, contribute financially to the household, and set the bedroom ablaze with sexual glory and splendor 4x a week... do you REALLY think that the majority of sisters would say 'no thanks'?

Amen to that.

@Professor Tracey

When I said a majority of women wanted to get married. i wasn't excluding gay women. I'm sure they want to get married too...they just can't.

[karen]

I think that it is a little unfair to demand that NBC explore all the reasons that black women might stay single in this one session.

The fact is, they were dealing with the issue of single motherhood in this one segment. We all know the negative stereotypes that black women single mothers are somehow all living in the ghetto and raising their boy children to sell crack. So I think that it is a good thing to portray the single black mother as a strong, successful person and at least in a small way attempt to break the stereotype.

The fact also is that it is a big probelm for black women who want to get married not being able to find a mate. I have seen, over and over, black women come up through their twenties and into their thirties and gradually begin to accept that they might not ever get married. This has nothing to do with whether they wanted to or not, its just the reality. All you have to do is walk into a church College, or office in Washington DC and you'll see it in full force.

The fact that these issues were addressed does not negate other topics like choosing singleness. These are not mutually exclusive sublects. Perhaps you can suggest to NBC that they discuss that as well. But I say, take this discussion for what it is. A specific attempt to dialogue with black women who want to get married and are finding that they can't find a mate.