"Love is a TWO WAY STREET"- Comment on the Podcast: McClurkin, Obama, Hutchinson

The following is a message from SheCodes. I read it during our podcast on Obama, Donnie McClurkin, and Ed Ofari Hutchinson:

At the end of the day, all of the maladies in the black community are rooted in damaged belief systems, and the immoral choices that are the natural result of those beliefs. Blacks have caught hell from the immoral choices of the white establishment. Blacks are adding gasoline to our own hell by making immoral choices in response to our situation. It really does not matter how many protests black people make, or how many programs that we implement. No political revolution is going to knit the hearts of black people together, and no book, mantra, club, can re-form the nucleus of the black family.

What Black America needs is a revolution of the heart. A change in the prevailing thinking of blacks. A change in the prevailing thinking of whites.

The real purpose of the Christian church is to assist those who seek that revolution of the heart. The church was never intended to become a social club for the so-called 'righteous'. It is to provide a clear pathway for those who are on a journey seeking the Truth, and to protect those who are on ALL LEVELS of that journey.

Jesus spent most of His time with social outcasts. Unlike some Christians today, He showed tremendous love to prostitutes, tax collectors, and Samaritans. Jesus said, 'I did not come for those who are well, but for those who are sick'. The problem is, we all think that we are the healthy ones, and everyone else is sick. The reality is, we are all sick. We believe sick things about ourselves, and each other. We behave in sick ways toward each other.

There is a HUGE difference between the ecumenical Church (otherwise known as the 'Body of Christ') and the organized church (who are those who physically meet up and sing praises together on Sunday). The ecumenical church consists of those people who have made a profound decision to embrace the unconditional love of God, and to transform their belief systems and behaviors to mirror the creative, loving power of God. You can belong to one church without belonging to the other.

That being said, there is no organization that gives more to the poor, cares more for the sick, feeds more of the hungry, and clothes more of the naked, than the organized Christian church. The church mans thousands of half-way houses, shelters, and homes and asks for nothing in return. I have never seen one homosexual turned away at a soup kitchen. I was there in the 1990's when the black church took in thousands of gay men who were suffering and dying from AIDS, when their own physicians refused to touch them. I was there and saw black grandmothers who couldn't even say the word 'homosexual' out loud -- pray for and hold dying men in their arms and love them into eating the food they personally prepared for them. I now see these same black, praying grandmothers being demonized and reviled by the same people who they helped to raise.

Love is a TWO WAY STREET.

I apologize to anyone who has been harmed by the organized church. We are all broken vessels, needing to further the grace and mercy of our Creator. SHECODES

Shecodes is the more diplomatic and mature version of moi.

The podcast is now up

Winner of the "Quote of the Night" Award: Johnny

"Attorneymom it is not your job to reprimand them. You are no one's Holy Ghost"-Johnny from the Black Women's Roundtable October 25, 2007.

Attorneymom(86:10) and BlackSeaGoat(89:04) ALMOST won, but they were disqualified for interrupting my poignant closing commentary.

If you had to wait on the phone to get in and gave up then I'm sorry, but everyone that hung in there got to speak at the end all mics were live and anyone still on the line could have gotten in.

Great show. I was worried y'all would cut up, but for the most part folks behaved although I had to impose the mute button on Attorneymom and BlackSeaGoat.

Our Topic was Obama, Earl Ofari Hutchinson, and Barack Obama.

For continuing coverage go to Pam's House Blend, Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters, Republic of T, Clay Kane ( Has interview with purported ex-lover of McClurkin- Did y'all know Donnie had a child?), Keith Boykin, and Jasmyne Cannick ( She said she would do the podcast and then didn't show up >:( )

Comments

[brotherkomrade]

I tried holding on for as long as I could, but my two year old was sleeping light and she kept waking up, so I had to hang up.
But here is what I wanted to say:

I was glad we finally got to hear a black gay perspective on this issue. I tried looking for any solid homophobic quotes by Donnie, but it didn't find anything until after your guest spoke. Googled it, and found them. I still feel that there are black churches who do not stoop to hate speeches, and I'm sure there are some black gays and lesbians who have found peace in their churches as openly gay people, or at least I gotta hope for that.
Why is that my business? Because I'd like to see our community reshaped with new values that would be conducive to a revolutionary unity. It may never happen, but even a cynic like me can dream, right? Again, I cosign what your guest had to say.

[Attorneymom]

Preaching biblical principles is not hate speech or homophobic. It is called obedience to the Word of God. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a gospel of liberation and will not bow to sin or popular culture. The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. It is not Burger King. You cannot have it your way. It is either God's way or no way. Sorry.

The bottom-line is that homosexuals enjoy having same gender sex. Period. And they are not going to allow Jesus, God or the Holy Spirit to keep you from getting your groove on. I am done.

I am shaking the dust of my feet.

Shout-out to Johnny, BlackSeaGoat, Professor Tracey and SheCodes.

Sidebar: Let me know when you do a podcast on the downside of sodomy. That is, the health risks involved with using the behind as an entrance. I also would like to the know the health risks involved in by constantly using fake penises within the vagina.

[roslynholcomb]

Attorneymom, all gay men do not engage in anal sex, nor do all lesbians use dildos.

I think you read the quotes from McClurkin placing homosexuality in context with pedophilia, if you didn't you might want to check back on the original thread. If that's not hate speech I don't know what is.

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass what anyone believes, but when you try to force other people to live by YOUR beliefs then there's a problem. Religious organizations can't seem to get a grip on that concept and the need to force their beliefs on others, and that's what makes them intolerant and subject to groupthink.

[Attorneymom]

I forgot. Shout-out to DJ Black Adam.

[Attorneymom]

Thanks, Roslyn. I could not think of the word "dildos." Good looking out.

[Attorneymom]

Roslyn, are not the homosexuals attempting to force their beliefs on the church??? I think the radical homosexuals are being intolerant of the church. It takes humility to follow Christ. Selah.

[DJ Black Adam]

Wow. Man I got disconected TWICE yesterday, our power went out for like 2 minutes each time, I believe God was telling me to "shut up and listen".

It was very interesting I'll say that much, much respect for GEM for having a forum for folks to talk about this issue.

[SheCodes]

Hi, I just listened to the podcast, b/c I dialed in only a few minutes before it was over.

I have a few comments about the men who were turned away at the emergency room.

Last year, my father had a mini-stroke (he is fine now, thank God) and it was one of the most terrifying days of my life. He was unconscious and having seizures for a long period of time.

When I tried to get into the emergency room, I was stopped as well. I told them that I was his daughter... but that wasn't good enough. In my panic to get to the hospital, I had forgotten my purse and didn't have my driver's license. I was not allowed inside without ID. So I went to my car, and was going to drive back home, when I realized that my passport was in my luggage that I had left in my car's trunk, so that's how I got in.

I understand that hospitals must be able to prevent reporters, nosey neighbors, and gang members who want to 'finish the job' from entering the emergency room. I get that. But when you are in the midst of crisis, that' pretty hard to swallow.

Therefore, we ALL have to 'walk with papers'... that fact isn't unique to gay men. The guest's analogy or 'walking with papers' to slavery is inappropriate because a gay man will not be thrown in jail or sold if he 'doesn't have his papers'. I don't like the constant comparisons to slavery that many marginalized groups like to make... including today's blacks. It cheapens the unspeakably gruesome reality of what happened to slaves back then.

I'll go on a limb and say that most Christians are appalled and find no satisfaction in learning that a gay man - husband or not - died alone because someone who loved him couldn't get in.

I submit that the 'marriage rule' to get into the emergency room is bogus, and needs revision.

One should not have to be a blood family member or legal spouse to get into the emergency room. For a lot of older women, their spouse is long dead and their children are hundreds of miles away. Everyone should be able to put the names of people who can make decisions about our lives on the magnetic strip of drivers' licenses. Problem solved.

[DJ Black Adam]

"I'll go on a limb and say that most Christians are appalled and find no satisfaction in learning that a gay man - husband or not - died alone because someone who loved him couldn't get in."

I am inclined to agree.

[roslynholcomb]

Attorneymom, most gay people aren't trying to make other people gay. I think we can certainly say that many Christians are definitely trying to make other folk Christian, or at least adhere to their so-called Judeo-Christian belief system. We're constantly inundated with this concept. Most gays simply want to have the same rights as everyone else. Many Christians spend most of their time proselytizing and trying to convert others to their belief system.

[Woman in Transition]

@shecodes: you should have been on the panel. I really like your insight.

[BLKSeaGoat]

GEM, thanks for the opportunity last night. I thought the discussion was great although Terrance and I have some differences when it comes to agenda setting for black gays and lesbians.

One thing I wanted to say last night was that I'm deeply offended by the fact that Obama didn't work hard enough to seek out black gay and lesbian preachers (or str8 allies) to answer his critics. I read Jasmyne Cannick's post on queerblog last night and I think she captures most of what I'm feeling.

For years, white gay organizations have hi-jacked the gay rights movement and allowed their racism (which they believe they don't have) to erase people of color from it. I never said that gay marriage isn't a black issue, but it's certainly one that I think is secondary to a number of more important ones facing black gays and lesbians.

The fact that Obama had to clamor for the attention of white gay folks' approval of an outreach event aimed at one segment of an important electorate still bothers me. How many white gays had planned to attend the event? How many white gays have ever set foot in a black church? How many white gays know about how much work the black church IS doing regarding HIV/AIDS?

Terrance quoted two instances of pastors in the DC area preaching homophobic sermons (Bishop Alfred Owens and Willie Wilson); these pastors also have very active HIV/AIDS outreach ministries and were the FIRST responders to the HIV epidemic when it began to disproportionately affect African Americans as well as gay men, and they did it WITHOUT federal funding. How can the gay community forget this?

There are plenty of times when HRC, NGLTF, and GLAAD have used white gay spokespeople with extremely RACIST pasts to represent them OR THEY HAVE IGNORED common civil rights causes altogether; does this contaminate all of the work and progress they've done?

Hey ATTYMOM, DJBA, SheCODES and anyone who was present.

P.S. Attymom, sodomy as defined by most of the statutes that were struck down by Lawrence vs. Texas, included oral sex (fellatio and cunnilingus)and non-missionary position sexual acts between persons regardless of their respective genders.

[brotherkomrade]

I don't think gay people are trying to change the church. I think they are simply trying to tell the rest of the congregation that they are there and that the hate speech should stop.
Of course, the alternative to to create a new church of their own, but they should not have to dod so quietly.

[DJ Black Adam]

@Attorneymon:

Thanks for the shout out!! I understand where you are coming from, though I disagree with your theology on the subject.

[SheCodes]

Thanks Woman_in_transition... although I really don't think I'm well versed enough on all of the aspects of the homosexual experience in the church to be on a panel.

Today I'm feeling really encouraged that we can all have a respectful dialogue about it here. The people on this board seem to genuinely like each other... even when we disagree on explosive topics like this.

[Attorneymom]

I apologize for posting my “Sidebar” comment. Upon further review, I feel that it was really unnecessary.

[Queen]

Hey Everybody!

I Lurk (that sounds creepier than it is) and such but I must comment on that podcast. That thing was wild and out of control! lol. I'm here in South Africa (for the semester)laughing and agreeing at some points (very loudly I might add) and my roommates keep asking me "what's wrong?" And I keep having to reassure them I'm just having a good time. lol. Anyway, great podcast. Attorneymom is out of control! (and I love it) Blkseagoat keeps getting her though, which I also appreciate. And shecodes is quite impressive with her amazing articulation (of my thoughts, exactly!). Anyway, keep up the fine work. I wish I was able to listen live and when I get back to the states in a couple of months I'll make that a priority. Have a good day people!

[KittyHummerKitty2]

Good job Attorneymom!!

[Ivyalf]

What can I say but another brilliant podcast. The only problem is that I have to wait till Fridays to listen due to the time difference to the UK.
In the UK we do not have same sex marriages but we now have civil unions. And I can honestly say the UK's moral fiber has not suddenly declined.

[Attorneymom]

Thanks, Kitty. Someone loves me.

[g-e-m2001]

OH PLEASE Attorneymom,

You have your very own international fan club. Folks from all over the world know know about Attorneymom.

I love all of the WAOD family, even the resident contrarians.

Stop trying to play Little Miss Pitiful. you can't pull it off.

[Attorneymom]

Gina, I know that I am your favorite. You try to front like Shecodes is your favorite. But we all know that I am your favorite.

I also know that Blkseagoat has a crush on me. LOL. You can admit it, Seagoat.

[g-e-m2001]

um attorneymom,

No you really are not my favorite. All of my readers are my favorite :)

I love you all equally.

Second,
I am gong to ask you to pray for the spirit of discernment because I am pretty sure that BlackSeaGoat don't have a crush on you unless you have been hiding some things from us.

[Johnny]

ok it took me a few days to get here because my wife and I are still unpacking boxes from our move, and trying to decide the layout of our nursery. But I am here now so I gotta ask my questions.

Attorneymom, I know you mean well but I have a series of questions that I feel I must put to you, and I hope you have an answer. By the by thanks for the shoutout it is much appreciated. I do lot of postings on different message boards and I have been the political moderator on more than a few. I would love to debate you on something political I think it would be fun.

I have heard you say what you have said, and I have heard it before, “we don’t support their sin” We done condone it at all”. In the interest of the argument I do not believe that anyone has said that we should. I believe that everyone has said that the church as a whole, has a nasty habit of turning its back on people, and ostracizing more than a few groups. Not just the black church but the white church as well, and that is kind of an oxymoron, because there should be only one church, but that is a discussion for later.

How do we live out the Great Commission? Does it apply to everyone except gay people? Is our ministry to be to everyone except gay people, (and I will throw in two other groups, those who have had abortions, and those who have sex outside of marriage.)? Isn’t it funny how we preach forgiveness for the latter two, but we are so ready to condemn the former to the deepest pit of hell

Jesus turned away only one group of people, and even in the midst of that He offered even the group He turned away a way back to Him. You are aware of who that group was aren’t you? I’ll give you a hint it was not gay people. It was the religious people of His day. The religious law people. The ones who did not get that the law as given by Moses was not meant to be followed. That it was meant to show that they needed a Savior. (See Paul’s first letter to the Corinthian church).

Of course if we are to follow the prevelant line of thinking then that would mean that the church as a whole would not grow, would actually atrophe and would no longer be the vibrant body it was meant to be. Are we so enlightened that we are forgetting who we are called to, and what we are to be about? Whatever happened to following the example of Christ? Please tell me how you reconcile some of your comments? How do you reconcile the process of salvation verses the finished product. Are we to believe that somehow you have ascended and are now beyond needed the assistance of Christ to live this life? If this is not the case how can you justify your statements?

I feel that you are like some people who cannot differenciate between loving the sinner but hating the sin. Is that not how God loves us?? There are some who believe that God hates gay people, even preaching this from the pulpit. They are sadly mistaken, and God will deal with them in time. If God truly hated the sinner along with the sin, why send Christ to die?

There is verse after verse about God hating sin, despising sin. There are even more verses speaking of the mercy of God, the longsuffering of God, the grace of God.

Your statements show either an ignorance of this, or a willingness to allow some access while denying others. You should of course know that Jesus accused the Pharasees of his day of the same crime.

How can we lay claim the name of Jesus Christ, and yet deny access to Him, relegate a certain group to the confines of hell, and still call ourselves ambassadors for Christ.

There is a difference a vast difference between sanctioning evil, and showing someone the love of Christ. Personally I believe if you cannot do that, what do you really know of the love of Christ. Its hard to show someone something if you have no clue of what you are trying to show. You cannot give someone something you do not have yourself.

[Johnny]

@Gina

Thanks for the shoutout and award

[Attorneymom]

Johnny, I am going to take my time and answer your questions. Give me a day so that I can answer each of them thoroughly as possible.

I really enjoyed the debate. I look forward to more debates with you and my other newfound blog friends.

Sidebar: I am 100% authentic God-manufactured woman. The real deal. Just ask my 3 babies and especially my hubby. : - )

[Johnny]

I never said that you were not and if I implied such I do apologize

[Attorneymom]

Johnny, that comment was for Gina, not you. LOL.

[Attorneymom]

I should have clarified that the Sidebar comment was for Gina.