On this day that the nation celebrates freedom fighting and non violent resistance, we pay homage to the brave Black folks in Williamsburg County, SC who fought back against race-based discrimination and outright lunacy on the part of school district employees. Dr. King would be very proud!
This is a watershed legal moment. A Civil Rights statue has been used to sue a school for intraracial raced-based harassment. In this case, as many of us have experienced, young Black children were harassed by their classmates for “Acting White.”
COLUMBIA, SC — Two Williamsburg County students and members of their family have reached a $150,000 settlement in what may be the first Title VI lawsuit based on claims of intra-racial discrimination in South Carolina public schools. Lawrence “Larry” Kobrovsky, a Charleston attorney who focuses his practice on constitutional law and school issues, said the parties settled after a female student’s claims of sexual and racial harassment at a Salters school went to trial in U.S. District Court in Florence. The suit was one of two against the Williamsburg County School District and school officials. The other suit, filed on behalf of the student’s uncle, was dismissed.
Both students were members of an African-American family that shared a home in rural Williamsburg County. Both attended public schools at the time of the alleged harassment.
The trial lasted two days, but the case never went to the jury. SOURCE
It didn’t go to a jury because the school district decided to settle AFTER the girl’s uncle testified, but the fact that it made it past summary judgement means that tormented Black students now have a powerful weapon against school districts that turn a blind eye to the underachievement police. I have a dream today!
68 comments ↓
Standing up clapping.This is exactly what we need.Justice for blacks who are victimized tormented and harassed by other blacks.I am so glad that these kids got the justice that I,my siblings, and many others never have.
I do feel that many of these acts of black on black crimes are racially motivated because many of these people are not savages towards everybody that they will come in contact with.They target other blacks specifically. Many of the time due to the so called no snitching policy in majority black constructs their crimes go unreported.Also that has unfortunately helped send the message to law enforcement and judges that all blacks in majority black constructs are in some kind of partnership with criminals.Therefore when cases involving black on black crimes reach a judge the criminal will often get a very light sentence.Even in a cases where someone died.I am happy that this happened and hopefully a message has been sent that these acts of intraracial terrorism will be taken seriously and punished.
I hope that we will get to a point where crimes committed against blacks by other blacks will be taken as seriously as crimes committed by blacks towards whites are.Crime is Crime no matter who committed it no matter what color the victim is.
Yay! This is such great news. It would never have occured to me to sue the school, I would have just moved my child to a different school (if I could afford it). This solution is much better, it might actually change the overall tone of the school in that community. All the scholar ladies!
Unfortunately, the “acting white” accusation thrown at a black student who actually *gasp* likes to learn is not new. I am well over 40, and I was ridiculed in elementary school and chased home regularly because I was “trying to be proper” and “thought I was better” and, of course, “acted white” because I did my lessons in class, raised my hand and answered questions, did my homework, passed my tests, etc… It also didn’t help that my mother combed my hair and dressed me in clean clothes every day. It all came to a head on the day my mother came home from work early and caught me in bummy clothes. I had started sneaking a bag of clothes in my book bag, and changing into them when I got to school. I would then change back into my regular school clothes when I got home. On that day, I was caught and my game was peeped. By the next week, my mother and grandmother enrolled me in a private school downtown and scraped together my tuition so I could attend. It literally saved my life. It’s just very, very sad that the same mentality is still prevalent in our community today. I wonder how many of our children are missing out on greatness because they suffer in this way, and do not have supportive parents and family to fight for them like I did and the children in this article.
Hmmm…
Strong side eye to the whole thing.
The kids weren’t targeted ‘casue they were black – they were targeted ’cause they were different – different gets you tagged in what ever envrionment you’re in – especially homogeneous ones.
They were “churchy” and smart/articulate – that’s not race based – that’s more class/social based.
While the school needs to be taken to task particularly if they allowed the students to be harassed sexually or otherwise and I’m all for a family winning a judgment when this kind of harassment goes unchecked – the statue used and the reasoning is sketchy at best and sets a precedent I’m not comfortable with it setting.
JJ, I believed they were targeted because they were black. If these were two white girls the kids probably would’ve picked on them for other reasons.Many of AA still believe ‘real’ black folks don’t act that way. In these children’s minds black people are not suppose to be smart or live a certain way. This kind of attitude among blacks extend all social and economic classes. No matter how much money or education we get, other blacks believe we still must act a certain to be considered ‘real’.
@shell
The kids weren’t targeted ’cause they were black – I’ve seen the same thing happen among Red Neck/PWTT groups – except when it happens there it isn’t called “Actin’ White” you’re accused of being “liberal” or having “northern airs” or being “high falutin” or having “too much book learning.”
It’s a class/social issue. MommieDearest’s post proved that.
Poverty is a B*tch. But it’s not so bad if everyone around you is in the same boat. If you you’re coming to school in dirty clothes and unkempt hair – and everyone else is too – well it’s not so bad.
But let someone comes in who reminds you of just how poor you are ESPECIALLY if they essentially hail from the same area/background as you. Then that person is a target.
I’m not saying it’s right or fair, but it is reality. The parents had a right to sue – but not for racial discrimination – this was purely social/class thing.
What about the white version of this type of harassment like I mentioned above? They’re going to be able to sue for racial discrimination too? It’s a misuse of the statue – and lazy thinking.
And hell – I was a smart kid – in schools with significant black population – I was NEVER harassed for being smart or being a high achiever – why?
1. My schools were economically mixed
2. There was an expectation for you to succeed
I was praised and congratulated for my success by other black students.
So once again folk take a class/social/poverty issue and try and turn it into a “black” issue because it’s convenient and fits a story that folk (even black folk) like to tell about other (read poor) black people.
And that is disturbing.
The children were targeted because they weren’t the offspring of ghettofied negroes… The Administrators complicit inthe false allegation of child neglect should be FIRED.
I can understand children being trifling and teasing other children, but when GROWN people start acting like childhood bullies, I have to draw the line. This case is sooo much more than smart black children being harrassed. It’s about a systematic oppression of black academic talent by black people based on some warped idea of what an “authentic” black is.
These children were targeted because they were black, but also because they weren’t what the powers that be considered to be the black norm. I’m glad about the precedent the settlement sets. It puts School Administrators on notice that they have an obligation to protect their black high acheivers from harrassment by both students and other Administrators alike.
JJ, I’ve the it acted out in black schools where there is a wide social/economic structure. It didn’t matter how much money their parents have, but because they were black they were to act a certain way. The redneck/pwtt doesn’t apply here because solely based it on economics, blacks base it own culture. Many blacks put parameters on what it means to be black. That’s why Condi Rice and others(no matter what they achieve) are in my opinion mistakenly viewed as sell outs, why people like Lil Wayne, 50 Cent and Sean Combs are held to a higher standard in our communities.
Sorry, about the typos. I meant to say, I’ve seen it acted out in black schools.
“These children were targeted because they were black, but also because they weren’t what the powers that be considered to be the black norm.”
Exactly, these children didn’t fit what was considered to be the ‘black norm’. The school officials saw these girls as a threat to the mediocre educational systmen they and the community have accepted.
@jj
“It’s a class/social issue. MommieDearest’s post proved that.”
I think it can be both a race and class/social status issue. But in my case, it was purely because I was black. I was just as poor, and lived in the same neighborhood as the rest of the hoodrats who attended my elementary school. The difference is that I was a hoodrat who did not have the matching hoodrat mentality. My mother wasn’t having it. Because of that, it was perceived that I “thought I was better” than the rest of them. What’s really ironic is that the ones who tortured me the most were the first ones to try to get me to cheat with them on tests.
BTW, the only way I was able to afford private school is because my mother got a second job and my grandmother chipped in and talked with the school’s principal to work out a payment plan. They sacrificed for me. And I will be eternally grateful for that.
@12 MommieDearest
I am a more progressive minded person at heart, and usually vote Democratic.
But, your case does make a good argument for “School vouchers” I must say. Hate to say it but, the Republicans have that one right.
What is unclear, and which could turn this into a racial claim, excluding the discussion from the point of view of the children’s actions, race v. class, was the response of the teachers and administrators. Were they black? Were they white?
The impression I have is that the white children go to the private schools, but the black children go to the public schools.
Were the administrators black or white? Where these black people permitting class-based discrimination in the form of race, children persecuted for “acting white,” or were these white people permitting class-based discrimination because the children were black?
PVW,
I believe the race of the Administrators and educators involved was black.
@JJ (#7)
Great comment and that was my experience as well. As you say, so many so-called universal Black experiences are not but they fit into a narrative that people are comfortable with.
tusk91
[I am a more progressive minded person at heart, and usually vote Democratic.
But, your case does make a good argument for “School vouchers” I must say. Hate to say it but, the Republicans have that one right.]
That’s true.
I find it ironic that the “racist” George W. Bush signed into law the school voucher program for DC while the “pro-Black” Barack Obama later killed the program. Naturally, Black Democrats are increasingly ticked off at Obama, whose actions shout “Only kids from Black elite snob homes should attend safe top-notch schools.”
Read more here:
*D.C. School Voucher Supporters Denounce Obama:
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0909/657267.html
As Dr. King said, we should judge people by their character not skin color. The above case shows that more Black kids are willing to call out their peers-and even adults-who prefer mental enslavement over true freedom.
@MommieDearest
I was just as poor, and lived in the same neighborhood as the rest of the hoodrats who attended my elementary school. The difference is that I was a hoodrat who did not have the matching hoodrat mentality. My mother wasn’t having it. Because of that, it was perceived that I “thought I was better” than the rest of them. What’s really ironic is that the ones who tortured me the most were the first ones to try to get me to cheat with them on tests.
And you’re proving my point.
It had nothing to do with your being black – you were different – your momma put you on clean clothes. Your momma fixed your hair – you were just as poor but you came to school with “airs” as perceived by the children.
You were a reminder of their inferiority and you – in their minds – thought you were better.
ClASSIC social/class issue.
@shell – in the red neck/pwtt scenario they are all white. They are picking on the other white kid because he’s different (re: smart/neat/clean) – it’s the EXACT same situation.
It’s their (red neck/pwtt) culture. You’re supposed not be bright and live in a trailer park and wave a confederate flag and work blue collar jobs – etc.
The reason why this “actin’ white” racial discrimination case “seems” right is ’cause too many black folks buy into the same steotypes that white people set about us – we don’t like education, we view it as a white thing, we attack the smart kids.
WE don’t do anything. A certain segment of the black population adhere to such notions largely due to the class/social structure many were raised in (mind you I’m the product of 19 year old GED having single mom – but she didn’t play that ish so…) – my friends are doctors, lawyers, phd’s, pharmacists etc.
I’m sure many of the black women reading this blog have similar friends with similar educations – so no this is NOT a black thing which is why this NOT a race issue – this is a social/class issue that you can find among ALL populations when someone is perceived to be “better” than the rest.
We as a people have to stop buying into this meme on who we are – when it’s black woman related folk are up in arms – when it comes to class not so much.
@MommieDearest
I was just as poor, and lived in the same neighborhood as the rest of the hoodrats who attended my elementary school. The difference is that I was a hoodrat who did not have the matching hoodrat mentality. My mother wasn’t having it. Because of that, it was perceived that I “thought I was better” than the rest of them. What’s really ironic is that the ones who tortured me the most were the first ones to try to get me to cheat with them on tests.
And you’re proving my point.
It had nothing to do with your being black – you were different – your momma put you on clean clothes. Your momma fixed your hair – you were just as poor but you came to school with “airs” as perceived by the children.
You were a reminder of their inferiority and you – in their minds – thought you were better.
ClASSIC social/class issue.
@shell – in the red neck/pwtt scenario they are all white. They are picking on the other white kid because he’s different (re: smart/neat/clean) – it’s the EXACT same situation.
It’s their (red neck/pwtt) culture. You’re supposed nto ot be bright and live in a trailer park and wave a confederate flag and work blue collar jobs – etc.
The reason why this “actin’ white” racial discrimination case “seems” right is ’cause too many black folks buy into the same steotypes that white people set about us – we don’t like education, we view it as a white thing, we attack the smart kids.
WE don’t do anything. A certain segment of the black population adhere to such notions largely due to the class/social structure many were raised in (mind you I’m the product of 19 year old GED having single mom – but she didn’t play that ish so…) – my friends are doctors, lawyers, phd’s, pharmacists etc.
I’m sure many of the black women reading this blog have similar friends with similar educations – so no this is NOT a black thing which is why this NOT a race issue – this is a social/class issue that you can find among ALL populations when someone is perceived to be “better” than the rest.
We as a people have to stop buying into this meme on who we are – when it’s black woman related folk are up in arms – when it comes to class not so much.
Okay I went to a mixed race school with a wide range of economic classes. I took college prep classes or what many other blacks called “white folks classes.” Now those same blacks didn’t seem to see anything wrong with white kids in the school, whether poorer or richer than them, taking the classes, just other blacks who they said “were trying to be something we weren’t.”
I hear what JJ is saying. I’ve been around PWT and heard similar comments and I know kids are every economic level make fun of the bookworms or nerds in some way. However this is a little more insidious (sorry about the spelling) and goes beyond achievement. If you like a different music style or certain foods or clothes you are accused of trying to be white.
We are letting our culture be defined by the lowest common denomenators and limiting ourselves. I even see it among affluent black kids who act “hood” to gain credibility with other blacks.
Two examples:
First (the less credible) A little black girl I saw on one of the daytime talk shows who said she wanted to be white because white people said “please” and “thank you.” Now true this had to do with problems in her home but for her to associate this along racial lines was very telling.
Second a book called To Be Popular or Smart: The Black Peer Group by Jawanza Kunjufu. It looks as several black students in different situations including a black girl in a all black Catholic school where she and many of the other girls all wore designer clothes, etc. Yet she was called stuck up becasue she received a 97 on her midterm not because she was wealthier or displaying more attributes of wealth than the others.
So yes it is racial discrimination because no one else is being discouraged by their own race to do well simply because they are of that race. Meanwhile the perpertrators are not heaping this upon anyone else of any other race but their own.
Certain categories are protected classes according to US law: race, color, religion, gender, national origin, dis/ability, etc. A person can bring a discrimination suit based on these categories with greater ease in the sense that a framework exists to approach them. However, in law school I read a case where someone tried to bring a socioeconomic-based discrimination case. The plaintiff lost, becase the judge held that it is ok to discriminate against others based on their class background.
@Keisha
Which is why I find this case disturbing – I don’t like the precedent it sets that class issues within (cetain) impoverished communities can be treated as race issues.
I’m sure the lawyer in this case used this particular statue ’cause he thought he could spin it to a settlement – which he did – but it’s just wrong.
By all accounts the school needed suing, but not this way – this is just messy.
Keisha,
In some jurisdictions, class (socio-economic status) is protected. For example, Washington, DC has 19 protected classes.
@jj
We will have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Bee’s comment #20 explains it very well, IMO. I also attended an integrated high school with a mix of races, ethnicities and students of different economic status. For some inane reason, when it was the black children who were discouraged from excelling academically by some of their peers, it cut across class/economic lines. I think its more of a mindset. And it’s a dangerous one at that.
@ tusk91 comment #13
You make a valid point.
@Fred- thanks for the links. *smh*
JJ churching it up, in here.
@MommieDearest,
There is something about the black culture that seems to constantly wants others to prove their blackness.
I once read an article by a black writer who discussed this very same topic. In jest, the article argue that using being black (ie race)as an excuse for under achievement is easier to stomach than it being a cultural one. His main argument was that you can change your culture but you can’t change your race. So using blackness as an excuse for not reaching ones potential is much easier to take. It takes the burden off of you.
I believe, not all, but a wide range of AA still hold onto to this notion of what it means to be black. Sometimes imaginery barriers are harder to move than real ones.
The kids weren’t targeted ’cause they were black – I’ve seen the same thing happen among Red Neck/PWTT groups – except when it happens there it isn’t called “Actin’ White” you’re accused of being “liberal” or having “northern airs” or being “high falutin” or having “too much book learning.”
You’ve just prove everyone’s point. Those insults are cultural and socieoeconomic, not racial. When someone’s tells you that you’re ‘actin white’ it cuts much deeper because you are led to believe all you’re life that being black was all of who you are and something you can’t change. Yeah, PWTT can called others yankee, liberal, airs, but at the end of day their whiteness isn’t being call into question, just their behavior.
JJ-INTERSECTIONALITY. Race & Class are often (usually) intertwined. If it were “just” class, the insults would be purely class based (e.g., rich boy…)
I dealt with this in school. My quiet behavior, studiousness and manner of speech and the fact that I had two highly functional parents made me susceptible to accusations of “acting white”. (Mind you I encountered direct and institutional racism and fought against in ways that my accusers never would). I would now describe it as racialized insults born of class divisions and feelings of inferiority. In the south we call it Crabs in a Bucket.
I grew up with white folks who also did the “nerd” thing to other whites. NOT.EVEN.CLOSE. They don’t have the cultural baggage of the perceived “solidarity” that we “have” or think we “need”.
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****
Folks, don’t let those that would keep you in the depths of the status quo deflect your understanding of your experiences.
I don’t know how I feel about this. I am actually more concerned by the allegations of sexual harassment, and Im curious to know exactly what was said and in what context.
As far as the acting white thing goes…I have been accused of the same thing, but it was NEVER as a result of academic achievement, and most black people that I’ve talked to, who honestly jog their memory agree-the teasing doesn’t come because of academic achievement. The teasing comes due to the perception of one’s behavior. It’s STILL NOT RIGHT, but it’s DIFFERENT. I refuse to believe Black children are allergic to achievement and discourage it in others. I’ve worked with children, I’ve never seen it. I HAVE seen harassment when a child speaks, behaves, or shows interest in things not stereotypically Black. But those who “act white” don’t automatically have good grades, lol It’s a stupid correlation that is rarely ever addressed in these discussions. Just because you “sound” white or use standard English doesn’t mean you make good grades, and thus doesn’t mean you are hated for your achievement (or lack thereof). And let’s face it-people of all racial and social groups do this. I learned the term wigger from Whites…why do you think they use it?? All groups impose ridiculous expectations on their members.
I also don’t associate this with class differences. Some of the most ignorant Black people I’ve been around have been nuveau riche middle class obnoxious Kanye types. Often those Black children growing up in predominantly white neighborhoods still feel the pressure to perform Blackness, and that pressure is coming from Whites as well as Blacks. They are “tokened” and “othered” into play a role anyway.
And for the person who says it’s different for whites…not really. A girl recently committed suicide due to bullying, and anti-bullying campaigns exist throughout this country. Do you think it matters to a child who stays home from school why?
I am for progress, but we need to stop allowing people to view certain behaviors with the Black pathology lens. As a victim of “acting white” BS, I often felt sorry for those kids who simply didn’t know that they weren’t predestined to behave a certain way. I’m not saying that the lawsuit was without merit-the article didn’t provide enough detail IMO.
Love this blog BTW
@LeJane Gait –
I grew up with white folks who also did the “nerd” thing to other whites. NOT.EVEN.CLOSE. They don’t have the cultural baggage of the perceived “solidarity” that we “have” or think we “need”.
Which is why filing racial discrimination lawsuits against behavior born of a racist society is horrendous.
@Shell
Yeah, PWTT can called others yankee, liberal, airs, but at the end of day their whiteness isn’t being call into question, just their behavior.
Their Americanness (i.e. their whitness) is being called into question. They aren’t REAL Americans, etc. you’re putting qualifiers (it’s not the same) on a phenomenon that cuts across racial groups.
I”m sure white kids don’t like havig their Americaness questioned – or not being worth of respect b/c they got some “book learnin.”
Anti-intellectualism is an AMERICAN thing NOT a black thing – and in this case it’s a feeling of being made inferior that perpetuates this behaviour not a dislike of a particular race.
@Bee
I’m seriously amazed how folk can make such wide sweeping remarks about black people from what amounts to isolated and often taken out of context events.
When folk were up in arms about the Precious marketing (I am Precious) everyone was so quick to point out that they weren’t precious. And how dare they insinuate otherwise.
Now all of sudden everyone wants to talk about how black folk are anti-intellectual and racist against their own -(and though it happens in white groups somehow that’s different – cause of course when black folk do it it’s worse) though that wasn’t my experience nor the experience of others.
We quickly want to dismiss the social/class issues that perpetuate this foolishness as well as the real racist history that’s responsible for most of this – but then want to condemn the kids who act out b/c of their internalized self hatred and inferiority cause of their social standing as “crabs in the bucket.”
Le Sigh
JJ said: but then want to condemn the kids who act out b/c of their internalized self hatred and inferiority cause of their social standing as “crabs in the bucket.”
Me:self hatred is a choice.as is bad parenting and criminal behavior.
All I know is when I was growing up white kids could act “black” or “white” or however they wanted without facing significant harassment at the hands of black kids at school, while black kids violently harassed other black kids for acting white or being too light dark fat skinny or whatever else.I defitnetly believe it’s a race issue simply because black criminals don’t tend to harass others like they will another black person even when they come in contact with whites and others.
JJ, why are you so quick to dismiss black on black racism or violence. You are seemingly disvaluing other people’s experience, as if it’s all in our heads. I stand by my argument and others. Blacks are harder on each other than any other cultural or racial group.
White folks don’t get caught up in the questioning of their “Americaness”. You are reaching far and grabbing for straws.
I am not ashamed to admit I have played into this concept of being black. In like in the book “Shifting”, Blacks have learned how to shift between the ‘black world’ and the ‘white world.’
@shell
I’m saying this case isn’t about black on black racism – I’ve readily admitted that “Actin White” happens – but that it’s not a race thing – it’s a class/social issue and defense mechanism for kids who feel inferior –
- I’ve pointed out that this is NOT a black issue – that such actions play out in all disenfranchised groups – a point you like to so readily dismiss
- I’m also point out – just like the precious story – is NOT a universial black experience and it shouldn’t be framed as such. Yet black folk are so quick to turn class/social issues into “black issues” when it fits a convenient story line about “those” blacks.
Me:self hatred is a choice.as is bad parenting and criminal behavior.
So self hatred in children is a choice – really? Seriously?
On a side note: I’m so tired of people talking about choice. Choice is relative and largely bred of your life experiences not of the choices other people perceive you have.
Sigh.
*sigh* eyeroll.
I love laypeople’s attempt to make sense of the law. Law and logic have nothing to do with each other.
CIvil rights cases are strict liability. It can be de facto discrimination or de jure discrimination. It matters not if class geography or eye color played a roll, if you can make the case that these children were treated differently in any small part based on on one of the protected classes, then you should be able to make it past summary judgement.
So all of this discussion is lovely and what not, but if they said “acting white” or treated her differently than they would have a white, hispanic, or other child of another race, in the same circumstance then that violates the law.
I’m overjoyed and hope more parents bring the smack down on this foolishness.
A few of you don’t get/understand JJ’s argument that this is a class (social) issue because [probably] you come at your understanding of what class is from the ill-informed American perspective, which is that class is based only on how much money you (in this case, one’s parents) make. (I notice this, too, with many of us black American folks, who misuse the class-based word “bourgeois”–calling someone “bourgie” as an insult. Because, most often, too many of us don’t know what the word truly means.)
On another blog, I once got into a comments board argument with someone, because I said that Beyonce (from an interview of her I saw) was not middle class, based on how she speaks, her limited vocabulary, and her misuse of a few words. The other person jumped down my throat, telling me that I was wrong, that she was upper middle class, because her father earned a high salary. Duh! How much money one earns does not class make–there is a lot of folks in the English upper-classes who don’t even have a pot to piss in.
During my childhood years I went to a public elementary school outside of my neighbourhood (white and lower-middle to middle class, and white Jewish middle class). In my black, and [mostly] working class neighbourhood, I was occasionally teased–sometimes beaten up–by the [poor] black kids, who accused me of “acting white” and/or “thinking that I was better than them.” Looking back on it: “Acting white” had very little to do with skin colour, and much to do with that for some blacks (the poorer ones, especially; or more specifically, blacks who were only ever exposed to folks such as themselves, and who, unbeknownst to themselves, have an inferiority complex or who hate their blackness) “whiteness” equates with being the best, or top-notch, or smart, or excellence. Really, I don’t think that I would have gotten teased and/or beaten up if I spoke like them or if my mother dressed me like them or if I did not read so much in public.
Well, that is just my two-cents, and my support for the argument that JJ is making.
Okay well here is my argument. Children are to be able to attend school without being ganged up on and mentally tortured and their parents ought to be able to nail any and all miscreants that create a hostile environment. Y’all can play delusional if ya want to up in these comments, but I’m not hearing it.
These little demons and their adult enablers don’t give a rip about your class arguments. They saw some Black kids who wre not acting within their acceptable norms for Blackness and tormented them. Class be dayumed, the girl would not have been harassed if she was blue haired and brown eyed.
I give the side eye to those of you who are “troubled” Why? That little kids will now have recourse? Its racist! If she wan’t black they would not have harassed her. Stop acting playing dumb up in the comments section acting as if Black people don’t pick on other Black people while smiling shucking and jiving for non Black people.
Crime statistics show that most violent crimes committed (these days) are same race or ethnic group. So, I guess that it would follow (or perhaps, start) that a black student is more likely to be teased/messed with/harrassed by another black student(s) than by a white or Hispanic or Asian one.
It is not delusional (and that is a harsh word to use, for it is associated with psychological sickness) to participate in this discussion (which is what I thought was happening here), wherein, although the attorney fought, and won, the case based upon racial discrimination (black on black crime), that one cannot think, and talk, about some other issues related to what happened, which were not brought into evidence to win the legal case.
*rolls eyes*
No ones trying to make “sense of the law.”
I’ve already stated that the use of the statue clearly made sense from a lawyer-ing prospective.
That under the protected nature of certain populations (as Keisha pointed out) it was a smart out of the box move that – as I stated – the lawyer probably thought he could use to force a settlement as the school district would not want to go forward with a trial.
I understand that – layperson that I am. However that doesn’t mean I have to like it – as there are other legal precedents that have been set, that I don’t like but that doesn’t stop them from being “legal.”
I don’t like for the reasons I have mentioned. I’m all for parents hammering schools for allowing harassment to occur BUT I don’t have to like the way they went about winning the case.
@redcatbicycliste
Thank you – b/c folk here don’t understand that class is not always about money.
@Gem
If she wan’t black they would not have harassed her.
No – if she didn’t speak differently and/or dress differently then they did she would not have been picked on.
Case point: Lena Horne is from an upper class black family. When she lived with her grandparent in their all black Brooklyn enclave, with thier “bourgeois” airs everything was fine. All the black folk were like her – no issue.
When her mother took her and moved down south – she didn’t fit in. She didn’t look like/dress like/speak like those kids – and payed for it. They ostracized her and wouldn’t play with her.
She learned quickly that to fit in she had to be more like them. Once she did that – the teasing stopped and she had plenty of friends.
When she went back to Brooklyn she’d go back to her “bourgeois” ways and adjust accordingly – as she moved between the two world.
She wasn’t treated badly in the south b/c she was black – she was treated badly b/c the kids saw her as different – perhaps believed she thought she was better than them – class/social issues all day.
And that’s what happened here. And happens in disenfranchised communities across the board. Black folk aren’t immune to those class/social issues.
I totally agree that the level of hostility towards those children are being downplayed. I was a victim of intense bullying and teasing for being a 7th grader taking 8th and 9th grade classes. Black girls wanted to fight me and I DIDN”T EVEN KNOW THEM. So glad to hear of this ruling. All of what I went through would not had happened if I were white.
Remember the school teacher that cut the little black girls hair?I’m thoroughly convinced that she wouldn’t have done that to a little white girl.What about the black lady who hit the little black boy in the store for acting up?Surely she’s seen little white kids at the store acting up.I wonder did she hit them?What about black men who kill others blacks because they looked at him funny?Surely he’s gotten some strange looks from whites when he’s out and about.I wonder if he killed them too?I doubt it!
Plenty of black people do the worse things to other black people that they’d never do to a white person in the same scenario.
Race issue.
@JJ Sorry, you’re just being intellectually dishonest. It was because she was Black that she was expected to speak a certain way. Had she not been Black she would not have been expected to conform to the little miscreants totalitarian dictates. Sorry, I’ll take my argument in front of a jury any day vs yours. In addition, the little demons probably used words that mentioned her race as part of their harassment. I pretty sure the little demons weren’t running around harassing upper class White folks. I just wish the family could sue the parents of the little tyrants as well. Maybe a massive court judgement and attorney’s fees will teach people to leave ppl alone.
@Tania I’m glad you noticed that too.
Class issues and race issues aren’t mutually exclusive. I can see that both were a factor here. These children were singled out because they were black AND acting in non-conformist ways.
I was teased relentlessly as well as a kid, not for doing well in school but because of my taste in music and style of dress. As many of you know, blacks were only ALLOWED to listen to rap or r&b otherwise you were not authentically black. Thankfully that is changing.
I do think the harrassment in the black community is different and more insidious and dangerous.
In regards to JJ’s example of poorer whites harassing other poor whites for “putting on airs” as a similiar to poor black harassing other blacks, and it therefore being more about class, I disagree. I don’t think they are similiar at all. Though, I am not around many poorer white people, I don’t imagine these type of comments are as common as the “acting white” or “sellout” comments are in the black community. Further, the comments made by whites are not as sharp or biting. For some younger black people few things are worse than being called a “sellout”.
She learned quickly that to fit in she had to be more like them. Once she did that – the teasing stopped and she had plenty of friends
IOW, it’s Lena Horne’s fault. You actually blamed the victim of teasing for the violence.
redcat~see my comment on the racialized class aspect. That’s what confused me about these kids. Everything that was inferior was coded black. This was at odds with my upbringing. I was raised by black parents who dictated what black person I was going to discuss in class projects. I grew up in a situation where I was one of the few…there was no confusion about who I was and what was expected of me. Excellence is in my black DNA. This whole “acting” situation is very anti-black.
Question for all?
Who gets to decide what the definition of Teh Blackness is? How should Black folks speak, behave? Why such a desire to police the boundaries of Teh Black?
Truthp~one of the saddest things I noticed about the Acting Black folks is that they were forever running their hands through some white girl’s hair and talking about how pretty it was. I had a gym teacher who was a black lesbian. She hated me for no apparent reason. However, she was always grinning in the face of white girls and being buddy-buddy with them. Behind her back they talked so much shit about her.
***
FFS~ I described this sad phenomenon as a racialized class-based harassment. Attempting to co-erce, cajole, sabotage or otherwise bully someone into a “position” (deemed acceptable) is class Crabs in a Bucket.
As long as we have black folks excusing or defending harrassment of other black folks it’s going to remain a black problem.
As long as we have BLACK folks telling (literally and figuratively) other black folks to stay in their place (oh irony of irony~how the Grand High Arbiters of Blackness parrot the worst aspects of whiteness) it’s going to remain a black problem.
Miki is right. I don’t think these children would have treated white children the same way. They harassed them BECAUSE they were black and not acting in the manner they thought they should act. Now part of that is class, but a larger part is about race, about how we black people think we and other black people are supposed to act, simply because we are black.
Lol @ Little demons.
How about those adult black male miscreants that sexually harass black women while crossing the street while steadfastly ignoring our white sisters on said street? If you ignore them you tend to be subject to verbal abuse.
As our larger society holds that black have less value, we have internalized that belief, and believing that we are “less than” percipitates many of us acting out violently against our own. Self Hatred.
It seems to me these deep, sociological issues would make these cases hard to prove in larger numbers. I would imagine many of the harassers probably do not really even understand why they harassed these children.
I would say often what motivates violence against the smart, well dressed, well spoken kids..is also envy. Envy of the fact that these kids are clearly cared for and loved. Someone is looking out for them.
I have witnessed similiar scenes a few times in my life unfortunately.
Riding on the subway, you see seated across from each other two familes….one, a young woman who is doting on her child, kissing her, reading a book to her and being genuinely affectionate.
Across the aisle, is another family of disheveled, loud, unruly kids. The mother is talking loudly to her seat mate completely ignoring her children. Yet, one child of maybe 7 or 8 stares at the mother and child across the aisle from her with wonder but also anger.
In particular situation on the 2 train, I can remember how sad it was to watch the anger in that little girls face.
I guess a beat down was forming right at that moment.
I was teased relentlessly as well as a kid, not for doing well in school but because of my taste in music and style of dress. As many of you know, blacks were only ALLOWED to listen to rap or r&b otherwise you were not authentically black. Thankfully that is changing.
I do think the harrassment in the black community is different and more insidious and dangerous.
In regards to JJ’s example of poorer whites harassing other poor whites for “putting on airs” as a similiar to poor black harassing other blacks, and it therefore being more about class, I disagree. I don’t think they are similiar at all. Though, I am not around many poorer white people, I don’t imagine these type of comments are as common as the “acting white” or “sellout” comments are in the black community. Further, the comments made by whites are not as sharp or biting. For some younger black people few things are worse than being called a “sellout”.
I know it’s off topic but it speaks to the way some blacks reserve a special type of treatment just for other blacks.
KOC~We did have poorer whites whose class issues manifested themselves in different ways. They had several options for exclusion and acceptance: hang with blacks (the Arbiters of Blackness loved that white token), go goth, go hippy/stoner, hang with the metalheads, geeks…
Black kids…not so much. No REAL refuge with the outsider groups, none with those of your ethnic/racial group…
As larger society has deemed blacks as having less value, many of us have internalized those views and see ourselves as having less value and therefore it is easier to be violently aggressive towards our own. …Self hatred.
Yet, I do think these cases would be hard to prove in larger numbers.
I imagine many of the harassers are not even really sure why they attacked these children.
Also I believe often what motivates attacks on the smart, well dressed, well spoken black child…is envy. It is clear that the children harassed were cared for and loved.
With so many broken and dysfunctional homes in the BC, it is clear to me how these kids might have raised the ire of those around them.
Gina, do you think the black kids in Oak Bluffs, MA (Martha’s Vineyard) would have made fun of her or accused her of acting white?
I had the misfortune of spending time in Oak Bluffs, MA with a group of dreadful classist and colorist guys.
The Oak Bluffs kids are less affected by cries of “acting white” as they have groups like Jack and Jill and a social network to soften the blows.
The black kids most troubled by the “acting white” or sellout taunts are the lone black kid in the working class or lower middle class neighborhood who stands out academically or by their social associations.
That’s a bit of JJ’s arguement.
i found that there were negative comments about those who may have been perceived as associating TOO much with whites…as in “we are so fabulous, we don’t need to socialize with whites”.
Also I believe often what motivates attacks on the smart, well dressed, well spoken black child…is envy. It is clear that the children harassed were cared for and loved.
+1000
I noticed how neglected these kids were. Nobody ever mentioned dad. Usually grandma. They were preyed upon by older men (mama’s bf in particular) often with the knowledge, complicity or approval of the guardian. They were astounded that I was a virgin at 13. It had never occurred to ME to not be.
There is a lot that goes on that manifests itself in ways that are particularly harmful to the bc that need to be acknowledged. We have unique circumstances and experiences in America. Why is it so shocking that the manifestations of those experiences are unique?
Wow Gina! Thanks for sharing this! I believe this kind of self-hatred is what was behind incidents like the murder of that young man in Chicago. The one where the children were so bold (or just plain stupid) as to video tape a violent street murder and think they could get away with it!
I hope those of you who want to dicker about class vs. race will at least concede that either way, children who SHOULD have been protected by school administrators who’s job it is to uphold and enforce the law, were not.
Gina is correct: The responsibility of the plaintiff’s lawyer, the judge and jurors is to determine if the law has been broken. Period. Based on the testimony of the Uncle alone (who sounds as if he is a student in High School) they were ready to settle. That leads me to the conclusion that these administrators KNEW they were wrong. They also realized they stood a chance of losing more than just $150k if the case went to the jury.
Wake up people, there is much work to be done in the black community, wallowing in denial won’t even skim the surface. It’s about time someone was held accountable for this kind of egregious act! These kids weren’t acting “white” they were acting SMART. The SMARTEST thing they did was filing a lawsuit.
Unfortunately, far too often a “white” reaction to being bullied is to go to school packing several guns and blowing away classmates and teachers alike.
I will take a righteous litigious act over one of retaliatory violence any day!
@Gem
No I’m not being intellectually dishonest
I was bullied relentlessly in school – initially by poor whites – HORRIBLY – largely b/c I dressed well though i was as poor as they were and they couldn’t figure out why this black girl was dressed so well
FYI – my elementary school was primarily filled with poor/working class whites
- I was HORRIBLY harassed in middle by a group of black girls b/c a good many of the black boys liked me. My measurements were 36-24-36 at 10 and I was 5 ft. tall – by the time I was in 7th grade I was in c-cup – let’s just say that wasn’t fun/
- I was completely ostracized by the WHITE GIRLS in middle school b/c my best friend at the time was the “it” white boy and they though we were dating and were pissed by the whole thing – though we were just friends.
So please don’t tell me about bullying or being harassed – been there done that by black and white.
This isn’t about what you can win in a jury trial. This is about NOT being intellectually honest the hostilities don’t have anything to do with race BUT class/social standing.
Period.
And let’s be clear I was NEVER picked on for being smart, doing well – or any of that, though occasionally I was picked on for “talking white” which didn’t have anything to do with being articulate but the fact I was a little Valley Girl-ish.
My middle and high schools were at minimum 30% black – we all were high achievers – my best girlfriend cried b/c she got a 1300 on her SAT’s – so she retook them (very amusing actually).
So clearly ALL or even of MOST black kids don’t feel this – this “Actin’ White” is generally found in lower class/working class blak populations – class/social all day.
*rolls eyes*
@LaJane Galt
IOW, it’s Lena Horne’s fault. You actually blamed the victim of teasing for the violence.
I didn’t say it was Lena Horne fault. I said she decided to “fit in” and b/c of that the harassment stopped – if it were about her being black then they would have still harassed her.
It was about her being different than them – and that difference had nothing to do with race – it did have to do with class/social differences.
You can argue whether she should have changed or not – I don’t have an opinion on that either way – I can understand the “When in Rome” sentiment. I can uderstand being who yu are regardless — but none of that was the point of the conversation.
Now whos being intellectually dishonest.
Geez, I am now 53 years old and I too was teased, bullied in elementary, junior high and high school for getting good grades, not acting out/cursing teachers and other adults, not hanging out late at night, not having a boyfriend at 16, not wearing revealing clothes to school, for going to church, for getting good grades, etc. My mom was a elementary school drop out, but she was not having the foolishness.
Yes, I was miserable, but years later I saw how my tormentors turned out, some of them didn’t do too well as adults.
Sadly, I see today the teenagers still tease/bully each other for getting good grades, for not going out for a night of crime, for not smoking tobacco or pot, etc. The peer pressure today to conform is absolutely brutal; yes, we must admit in some very tragic situations, kids get beat up or killed for not going along with the madness.
What’s really just so sad is that it took a lawsuit to get all the adults, parents and teachers, to take this situation seriously. So, like most people have said, it is for a combination of reasons – race, class, gender, actual or perceived sexuality, etc., that such harassment continues. What is also sad, is that for a sister my age, never married and no children, and friends of the same situation, perhaps some of you would not believe some of the truly weird, silly, backward comments we sometimes get from other so-called “sisters and brothers”. Actually, I think Martin, Malcolm, Ella, Fannie Lou, et.al., would be very embarassed by some of us, especially those of the CRIC who sometimes enable such negative behavior.
I agree with revmamaafrika.com It is a combo of things / situations going on, but at the end of the day it is the administrator of the school’s responsibility to protect kids from bullying behavior from other kids especially if they’ve been notified of the behavior. This situation went to court because they did not handle the situation – they allowed it to go on unchecked. If I was a parent I too would have taken ANY legal action available to protect my child especially considering the recent suicides/killings of black children/teens due to harassment for being different. I would deem that my child should be protected under any law that was available for me to use to ensure that they would survive, would be safe and would be free to be themselves. This sounds like it was beyond teasing – this was merciless and there must have been many kids taking part in the incidents and these incidents probably were reported or well known and the school decided that the kid was going to have to live out their fate and the parents fought back. More and more on MTV commercials and other teen/kid friendly channels there is growing concern about the brutal way all kids treat each other. If our (aa) kids are taking part by using racial language towards each other to insult, harm or hurt due using race expectations as a way to hurt, harm or limit another child who too are aa then they too are fair game for law suits and correction. Black solidarity be damned. My child’s life & happiness being at stake means that I will use every resource available to me to protect him/her at all cost.
This is a intraracial/social economic/class problem. Unfortunately, it starts with the parent(s).
I have witnessed grown black people who have verbally attacked and tease other black people for dressing, speaking and acting in a different way from the expected black normal. If you’re black and your not hanging out at the local clubs, speaking obnoxiously loud, drinking, smoking and dancing like a stripper queen, then your being uppity. It’s all ignorance.
A teenaged mother today has less positive role models to mimic. 30 – 40 years ago when a young girl became pregnant she would have a greater possibility of seeing a working two parent household or people behaving and interacting in respectful ways.
We now have 2- 3 generations of single parent headed households. So the adults have no real wisdom to pass on…as the parents behave like children.
I see 40 and 50 year olds acting like clowns.
This is crazy; why must I sue somebody to get justice, protection for my child? Do you all remember sometime in 2009, a young boy was being teased, no, bullied by some other kids at his school, they called him “gay”, etc. He later committed suicide, I think he hung himself. He was a good kid, did well in school,went to church, etc. Now that’s sad!
Just as a note, the term “acting white” is basically the equivalent of being called a “nerd” by whites. Whites call each other nerds and that character trait is a mainstay in the movies and television. Think Millhouse from the Simpsons or even Linus from the Peanuts. This charter does not fit in and is often harrased. They exist in all cultures. We make the mistake of thinking its black on black hate. I don’t believe it is,
One of my dearest friends attended Cornel, graduated with honors. She shared with me that she never let anyone know her grades because she thought she would have been treated differently because most AA students had a rought go of it. Rather that is true, one can only speculate. But I know she didn’t see it as being a nerd but rather a superstar among academic superstars. Why bring attentin to yourself, fit it.
Also, the uncle comments are what we should also focus on. His says, implies that acting white is to be good, honorable, upright,i.e. churchy. Wow!!! People have to move beyound group thinking and see everything around race. This is an individual class issue but one that has been internalized to the worse even by some supports. It reminds me of the psychological profiles in the great book, “The Mark of Opppression”. The lingering effect of racial oppresion on many of our psyches is still very disturbing.
I’m sorry about the repost but from perspective to be called white is basically the ultimate putdown. I have a very good friend who is intellectually brilliant but is SO uncool we typically just say to him sometimes, you are the “whitest black man I know” or you are “soooo white”. This is after he has done or says something so out of touch. He came to a meeting once with this 30 year old rumpled up raincoat and matching rainhat looking like Oscar Madison or Dustin Hoffman’s character from the Rainman. The entire room immediately bursted into laughter without a word ever being spoken. He just didn’t get it. Still a great guy. We are older now we know hot to deal with different personality types.