We had some GREAT commentary in the comments section during our Marital Mogadishu series. Somebody needs to write a book 
( No, not you Steve Harvey). There were so many comments that literally just blew my mind about how this constant assault on Black women affects the quality of their lives that I said. you know what? These comments require a post all their own. This first one is from tertiaryanna who responded to Part I of our series.
tertiaryanna said:
An easy way to exploit women is to devalue them so much that they devalue themselves and feel like a bad option is better than nothing at all. What’s happening is that women are being taught to devalue themselves by setting up a series of contradictory, but negative outcomes.
They’re being told that there’s no safe refuge for any facet of self expression. So being poor is not desirable (who wants that?) but being well-off is selling out, and therefore bad. Being uneducated is bad, but being educated is also bad. Being valued for your sexuality is wrong, but not displaying that is also wrong. If, no matter where you turn, you’re making a bad decision, then what can you do?Easy: you let other people tell you what to do. You let the person being nice to you, right this instant, tell you how to act and how to live. An attack on Clair has fallout effects for Shanique – it’s about power, self-determination and access to resources, and it’s using the woman’s own desire to belong as a lever to realign her efforts away from her own interests (whatever they are.)<
You were preaching to me all up over and through that comment. She went on to describe what I am calling the War on Professional Black Women as “textbook othering”;
It’s textbook “othering”. The mainstream sources aren’t touting the alternative version of Black femininity as an option in a way that happens for WW: there’s not the mommy war thing happening where the alternative to being lovely and successful outside of the home is being lovely and successful w/in it – the point is the men aren’t there. And it’s not the beautiful lawyer vs. the beautiful video vixen: the latter forms of femininity are desirable, not not considered to be as respectable.
And if it’s a class perception, not an individual one, then it doesn’t really matter what the object of that perception wants to marry at all. It is all about control of resources, and social perception/clout is a major resource for professional BW. It’s a primary tool that one uses to navigate their territory.
This whole thing is toxic, period. But it’s working, because I think the natural focus (of the people who are spreading the message) is on how or if to marry. But it’s really not about that at all. The marriage part is just the flavor of the day – the issue is that BW are being used as stepping stones to advance the message-bringer’s interests. So the lack of unified coordination isn’t something to feel good about, it’s just a reflection that the professional BW is being turned into low-hanging fruit.
Why focus on this dreaded “relationship” topic, because its a powerful weapon being used against us. We’ve got Black women running around championing this mess themselves. Just say no to “Othering”.
24 comments ↓
I never ever thought about it this way
but it makes sense
We as Black woman must not be sucked into this issue, it is funny that the media has no interest in any good story about Black people.Rather than looking at how hard Black women work, their professional qualifications and ability to do high powered jobs our success is being turned into something negative.The truth is Black women have become too powerful and too strong we are more high profile now because of Obama putting many Black women in high profile positions.We remain beautiful, with pride and are not going to be dictated to.There is no group of women out there Asian, White and Latino who are not having good man shortages, problems in the workplace and juggling families but you do not see them under the spotlight.The meida does not and has never cared about us-the article is spot on.
when you are a black woman almost everything is a double edged sword.
The way I see it everybody needs to back off black women with this whole 42% thing it’s nothing if 42% of successful black women are single then 58% of successful black women are! That is more than half does it have to be 99.9% for it to be consider satisfactory?
I am saddened that this (man shortage) has become such a charged issue and we continue to add fuel to the fire. Do we need to be reminded how broken we are as a people? The media has it all figured out, same as the Willie Lynchs’ of the world. We buy into it and in the end, we are pitied, because we continue to pity ourselves, regardless what are status is in society. We have been the perfect experiment. Corporations continue to profit from our socioeconomical and cultural woes from our hair, our skin color, our children, our men and ourselves. Essence is just one cover, a smoke screen perpetuating trends and interests of a corporate machine on steriods.
I hate these ‘man shortage’ stories b/c there is no man shortage. If there was a man shortage then white, asian, and hispanic women would have the same experience that Black women have regarding the ability to find a suitable mate. Why are women in other groups able to marry at higher rates? This type of story is the epitome of making bw an ‘other’. Why aren’t we capable of finding a mate with the same men that women in other groups are able to find mates. There will be no stories (or few stories) about how well bw are performing b/c then you have to talk about why bm can’t handle their business. Who wants to see a positive story…no ratings. When will we stop seeing stories such a Precious and see movies based on bw that have great lives that others should envy (much like the Sex and the City type lives)? We won’t b/c we eat up the negative stories…they show the REAL lives, the REAL stories. There is no range of bw experiences…just pain and suffering. We all come with different experiences and I did not grow up in any way close to the story in Precious, but these are the stories that people will associate with bw….don’t deal with bw..they have had a hard life and come with LOTS of baggage. Some have and some haven’t, but you wouldn’t know it by the types of stories and movies that are presented. We can’t blame the MSM b/c these stories are primarily presented by black people.
I have noticed that there has been an influx of articles, books, programmes and youtube commentary about the state of AA women’s relationships, since the increase in blogs/articles geared towards BW empowerment and IR dating.
Maybe it’s just me……
Melanie,
I get what you’re saying, but Sex and the City… really? Those women in that particular story are just as messed up as the dysfunctional black people you don’t like seeing or hearing about in a story. If you add just a little bit of money and some 800.00 shoes, their existence becomes a little less painful.
I’m not the appropriate person to comment about this, as I am a gay black man, but why are black women being told to be marriage obsessesed? I see nothing wrong with any person who makes a decision to be happy with or without a black man. If black women want to be married, they can get married. Instead of lamenting about how grim the black=black marriage prospects are, I think particular focus should be paid to the fact that there are large numbers of black women who just aren’t interested in marriage… and that should be totally okay.
What about black lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered women? They want to be married and live happily ever after too, or is the right to happiness limited to a heteromormative relationship dynamic?
The marriage rate for black men isn’t much higher than that for black women. In fact marraige rates for black people is lower than the marriage rate for every other racial group. Clearly, there are some other issues regarding the lack of marriage in the BC.
However, I can see where the disconnect may be; Black women are being fed a marraige obsession ideal, coupled with another ideal of how forlorn, desperate, and unwantable they are (no I don’t believe that),
AND
Many black men are being jerks about it.
Thank you for continuing to expose the attack on what is supposed to be our achilles heel… I’ve heard it all too many times from many folk and its great to hear from sisters who keep it real and keep it moving.
More importantly having a forum and a voice to counter this nuckfuttery!
Thanks Gina and all the contributors!
I said it once and I will say it again the goal/mesage is to get you to beleive that YOU are not the icing and the cherry on top in your life – marriage is the answer to all your woes even if the man ain’t ish. If you don’t have a man you have NOT made it and should lay down and accept your fate. We are succeeding despite the odds. Looking for a hole in our armour they go after marriage and put the onus for this union not occuring btw bm and bw on ubw alone. Because even though it is not said out loud, the idea & beleif by the media is that bw ARE the ones who fix things and keep things running in our communities. They do NOT expect black men to do so.
Ladies, live your life, enjoy your life, take your chances without restrictions on what that life could mean or be. Stop carrying the extra weight of expectations on your shoulders and live your life fully. Remember you are the icing and cherry on top of your life as well as all the great stuff beneath those toppings. Do not be fooled or distracted from your dreams/goals – be them marriage, living in Europe, starting a biz – by all of the nonsense being said around and about you. By the Way- that is how you know that you are important – & pro’lly more important than you know – EVERYBODY starts talking about you. Peep all the front page news and attention about bw.
For the vast majority of women marriage and family is a part of their plans for happines. It’s a good thing too b/c the human race cannot continue without women bearing children. And the best way to raise healthy children is with married parents. Stats prove this. Please don’t start with the “you can raise a child on your own who is a good person etc”. I know that but we must speak to averages and best chances. I was raised by a single mother and think that I turned out well, but I was determined NOT to do that with my own children, short of the death of my spouse. Of course live your life, be happy etc while single. But if you don’t decide on and actively pursue your goals what are the chances of reaching said goals. We do it for career goals, financial goals so why not marriage and family. You have to live and enjoy the present b/c once it’s gone you regret wasting time being unhappy. BW are smart enough to pursue multiple goals w/o thinking we are incomplete without marriage. You are complete w/o marriage and you can still want and pursue marriage. I think that all the educated bw should be passing their knowledge, finances, and love to the next generation and the primary way to do that is through marriage not having chldren without a husband. That is the primary way we as black people will get rid of most of the dysfunction in the ‘black community’. We must create stable families with husbands and fathers.
Melanie,
But do your anectdotal experiences and desire to be married necessarily translate to happiness? It’s funny you mention family stability and marriage because there’s an Ohio state study that actually contradicts much of what has been believed for generations. You’re also typifying the black marriage experience as something limited to only heterosexual black women and that actually shuts out a number of black bisexual, lesbian, and transgendered women who have stable two parent households and have raised children with what one woud deem “appropriate” cultural values.
Every black woman doesn’t want, need, or should feel obligated to be married to assist the race in surviving. That’s pretty much a given. No one has talked about child rearing except for you and even then you’re using doublespeak. On one hand you say that black women should be able to pursue relationship choices that are appropriate for them, but on the other hand you place the burden of creating stable families with husbands on the hands of black women.
I disagree.
Black women should simply be given the same privelege as white women, and black men… the ability to simply be WITHOUT certain qualifiers. Don’t want kids? Great… Don’t want a black man… that’s cool too. Don’t want to be married? Awesome! BUT IF A BLACK WOMAN DOES WANT ALL OF THOSE THINGS SHE SHOULD ALS BE ABLE TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT SHE WANTS, HOW SHE WANTS IT AND WHEN SHE WANTS IT. Every other group and ALL MEN get that privelege… THE SAME SHOULD BE EXTENDED to black women without qualification.
I simply want black women to walk in the freedom that is theirs and NOT be critiqued, bashed, hated, mistreated, or “othered” for it.
BlkSeaGoat,
Please excuse my longwinded reply to your comment, but you’ve raised several important things that I feel warrant further exploration.
I think it’s important that when discussing the significance of marriage, we detangle and separate the various points to be made about the topic. Usually, when Black folks talk about the significance of marriage, all sorts of things are conflated into one big mix. This is not helpful for clarity.
I believe that the most important thing to note is the context in which AA women exist in this country. AA women are operating in a context that no other group of women are operating in. Other women may face similar issues, but nowhere near the rate that AA women are dealing with certain difficulties. AA women need to stop trippin’ and recognize that other women’s context is not our context. And respond accordingly.
AA women are operating in a context of a huge unmarried rate (relative to all other types of people) and a 70%+ illegitimate child rate. In this context, AA women can’t afford the luxury of calling ourselves “overcoming” the perception that we desire LEGITIMATE MARRIAGE—just like every other race and ethnic group of women on the planet.
To paraphrase some extremely important points that another blogger has made (Halima, blog host of Black Women’s Interracial Relationship Circle):
(1) Unlike the White female theorists who can afford to characterize marriage as a site of oppression, AA women need to understand that marriage is important as a potential site for division of the hard work involved in raising children. Unlike the current situation where AA women are bearing almost sole responsibility for (as is clear from 70%+ OOW rate).
(2) Unlike women from other ethnic/racial groups, BW women are being targeted for male dissociation and social disfellowship.
WW are generally protected and provided for within overall White American society (see the examples of how David Letterman and Kanye West were quickly chastised for publicly demeaning a WW). WW can afford to talk that stuff about how they refuse to be “obsessed with marriage”—they’re already reaping the benefits of marriage!
AA women can’t afford the luxury of characterizing desire for marriage as “obsession” with marriage. AA women are suffering the very real consequences of the absence of marriage within the AA collective. Consequences like the physical danger posed by legions of (mostly fatherless) predatory, violent criminals. Physically dangerous environments like Dunbar Village are one of many end results of an absolute absence of stable, 2-parent families created by marriage.
I’m not talking about marriage as somehow helping “the [Black] race survive.” I’m talking about how the mass absence of marriage is drastically lowering the quality of AA women’s lives. And in some cases, such as within many Black residential areas, is creating physical danger to AA women.
Again, WW and other women can afford to “trip” and pretend like they don’t know that the reasonable availability of marriage opportunities within their own group is doing something good and important for them (and their children). AA women can’t afford to “trip” like that.
[No, I'm not saying that marriage always results in a stable family. But common sense, and empirical observation of the conditions within AA residential areas, should tell us that marriage greatly increases the odds of having a stable, productive family in which children are properly reared and socialized---so they're less likely to turn into monsters like the single-parent raised Dunbar Village demons.]
I think it’s critical that we de-tangle and separate what I believe is the legitimate promotion of marriage from the disrespectful, insulting beliefs that are often promoted and held about single or childless women.
The legitimate importance, value and benefits of an “MRS degree” need to be un-coupled from the disrespect of “You and your life ain’t sh*t because you ain’t got no man/kids.” Right now, it’s all mixed up together and I think that demeaning message is what causes some AA women to balk when they hear marriage being promoted as something valuable.
In terms of the “bisexual, lesbian, and transgendered women who have stable two parent households and have raised children with what one would deem “appropriate” cultural values,” I say more power to them. But what has any of that got to do with straight AA women seeking the benefits that marriage usually provides for heterosexual women and their children?
What does “bisexual, lesbian, and transgendered women who have stable two parent households and have raised children with what one would deem “appropriate” cultural values” have to do with heterosexual AA women being targeted for for male dissociation and social disfellowship? Which is what’s being done in these various “othering” media barrages.
Nothing, as far as I can see. If I’m missing a connection here, I hope you’ll have the patience to enlighten me. Because I don’t see one. To me, interjecting Black bisexual, lesbian and transgendered women’s stable, partnered households into this particular conversation is another example of straight BW being encouraged to focus on somebody ELSE’s context, needs, and desires instead of their own.
I will also note that large numbers of gays and lesbians understand the value and importance of marriage. That’s why they’re clamoring to be able to have legally recognized marriages. In fact, one might say that large numbers of gays and lesbians are “obsessed” with marriage!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija, good points!!!
BlkSeaGoat wrote:
[Melanie,
But do your anectdotal experiences and desire to be married necessarily translate to happiness? It’s funny you mention family stability and marriage because there’s an Ohio state study that actually contradicts much of what has been believed for generations. ]
Actually, TIME magazine (a liberal magazine) publishes an article acknowledging that children fare better when raised by a father and mother who are married. An excerpt:
Few things hamper a child as much as not having a father at home. “As a feminist, I didn’t want to believe it,” says Maria Kefalas, a sociologist who studies marriage and family issues and co-authored a seminal book on low-income mothers called Promises I Can Keep: Why Poor Women Put Motherhood Before Marriage. “Women always tell me, ‘I can be a mother and a father to a child,’ but it’s not true.” Growing up without a father has a deep psychological effect on a child. “The mom may not need that man,” Kefalas says, “but her children still do.”
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1908243-2,00.html#ixzz0dIMRmM6h
So, Melanie’s position is indeed sensible and logical one.
A Black woman should be free to be single if that’s what she chooses. However, she should not be scolded for choosing to marry a loving, committed man (Black, White, etc.) and having kids.
BlkSeaGoat, responding to Melanie:
[You’re also typifying the black marriage experience as something limited to only heterosexual black women and that actually shuts out a number of black bisexual, lesbian, and transgendered women who have stable two parent households and have raised children with what one woud deem “appropriate” cultural values. ]
Actually, there are pro-gay Democrats like Dave Blakenhorn who admit same-sex “marriage” is bad for kids and America as a whole. Here is an excerpt from Blakenhorn’s commentary:
Summing up the cross-cultural evidence, the anthropologist Helen Fisher in 1992 put it simply: “People wed primarily to reproduce.” The philosopher and Nobel laureate Bertrand Russell, certainly no friend of conventional sexual morality, was only repeating the obvious a few decades earlier when he concluded that “it is through children alone that sexual relations become important to society, and worthy to be taken cognizance of by a legal institution.”
Marriage is society’s most pro-child institution. In 2002 — just moments before it became highly unfashionable to say so — a team of researchers from Child Trends, a nonpartisan research center, reported that “family structure clearly matters for children, and the family structure that helps children the most is a family headed by two biological parents in a low-conflict marriage.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/19/opinion/oe-blankenhorn19
@Khadija
I applaud your guts in telling the truth. It’s condescending for everyone to expect Black people to support their pet causes, but then get offended when we act in our own best interest.
LD,
Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it.
_________________________________________
Fred,
Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. And I hate to disrupt a potential “kumbaya” moment, but . . .
Let’s be clear:
(1) I support equal rights for gays and lesbians. [In honesty, I haven't fully decided how I feel about all of the rights that transgendered folks are claiming for themselves. For example, I don't want transgendered women grabbing up scholarships that were intended for women. This feels like an intrusion. Similar to the way I disagree with self-proclaimed "don't call me Black, I'm biracial" individuals grabbing scholarships intended for BLACK people---such folks need to find and create scholarships for so-called "biracial" people and leave Black folks' stuff alone. That's a common example of intrusion, and theft of resources that I saw happen repeatedly when I was in college and law school.]
(2) I believe that the government should either:
(a) grant marriage licenses to both straight and gay/lesbian couples; or
(b) get out of the “marriage” business altogether, give all couples THE SAME civil union registrations, and leave “marriage” exclusively to the church, mosque,and synagogue.
(3) In terms of interjecting what you’ve referred to as “pet causes” into unrelated conversations—Sir, with all due respect, I’ve watched you consistently do the same thing in many of the conversations here. Respectfully, I’ve watched you use unrelated discussions here as opportunities to interject talking points for your anti-choice, anti-gay/lesbian, Christian fundamentalist beliefs.
All I’m saying here is that each “interest group” needs to prioritize their own context and interests when analyzing issues that are important to them. And for this particular conversation, I’m talking about the context and perceived self-interests of the majority of BW (who are straight) to avoid being “othered” and to avoid being successfully targeted for overall male social disfellowship and social disassociation.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I hate it when bw want the WHOLE range of life choices we are told that we are obsessed. Marriage isn’t the only choice for a lifestyle, but it has increasingly become out of reach for many bw who want that lifestyle. So instead of addressing this issue we are told to be happy in the state you are in. Of course a person should be happy where they are, but that doesn’t mean that a bw can want and pursue marriage.I remember in college the ww would complain that their future husband might think that they would want to become a stay at home mom. This was not even on my radar. I had NEVER known a bw in my family (except for one grandmom) that had been a stay at home mom. Working for them (ww) was liberation. I had always known women that work outside the home and none of them saw it as liberating except in the way that it freed them from worrying about the bills getting paid. It was survival and expected. None of the ‘men’ I knew thought a woman should be a stay at home mom…she was using the man, lazy, etc. Even the bw that I knew who could have remained home w/ kids didn’t. So when Khadjia says thae we as bw work from a different framework she is soooo correct. It’s changing now, but that is the framework we are working within.
Melanie wrote:
[(3) In terms of interjecting what you’ve referred to as “pet causes” into unrelated conversations—Sir, with all due respect, I’ve watched you consistently do the same thing in many of the conversations here. Respectfully, I’ve watched you use unrelated discussions here as opportunities to interject talking points for your anti-choice, anti-gay/lesbian, Christian fundamentalist beliefs.]
With all due respect, I only commented on same-sex “marriage” because BlkSeaGoat because criticized you for stating that children raised by a Black straight married couple are better off. Since you spoke the truth, you deserve support on that point.
Once again Khadija, you have put it all so eloquently.
Melanie, I thank you as well for your points.
As Khadija said, there needs to be a separation of a BW’s legitimate desire for marriage and the disrespect of “You and your life ain’t sh*t because you ain’t got no man/kids,” insult.
I am constantly affirming and promoting safe spaces for black women to say loudly and proudly that they desire to be wives and mothers, that marriage IS important to them and that they should not be admonished for expressing such views or made to feel as if they are weak or “succumbing to social pressure” if they express this desire.
We tend to pooh-pooh the idea of having one’s identity grounded in wifehood or motherhood, saying that by doing this, women are being defined by their relationships to others and not their own identities. While that can be true, are we saying that it’s inherently better to have an identity based on working for an outside corporation? On the amount of material things one acquires or how many vacations one takes?
I’m not making a value judgment either way, as we are all free to chart our own paths. And the path of becoming a wife, mother and family woman is quite an honorable and respectable one that our community needs to celebrate much more than we do.
tertiaryanna’s argument: BW are being used as stepping stones to advance the message-bringer’s interests ironically rings true on a thread about safe refuge.
Thank you Khadija.
Gina, thank you for highlighting tertiaryanna’s comments. I’d overlooked them.
It is all about control of resources, and social perception/clout is a major resource for professional BW. It’s a primary tool that one uses to navigate their territory. This whole thing is toxic, period. But it’s working, because I think the natural focus (of the people who are spreading the message) is on how or if to marry. But it’s really not about that at all. The marriage part is just the flavor of the day – the issue is that BW are being used as stepping stones to advance the message-bringer’s interests. So the lack of unified coordination isn’t something to feel good about, it’s just a reflection that the professional BW is being turned into low-hanging fruit.
And that’s the main (and beautifully articulated) point. Scrutiny is being directed toward women who have worked towards goals over which they have control (education, employment, financial stability). Funny thing is, social scrutiny is usually directed towards those behind the curve, not ahead of it. For obvious reasons, marriage is not something over which people have the same control as other aspects of their lives. In short, being self-determining and self-reliant has been turned into something to evoke anxiety and feelings of inadequacy. It is a psychological attack aimed at encouraging women to devalue or limit their educational advancement.
thank you! I’m so tired of feeling unwanted and unworthy within the context of relationships or the potential of a relationship till I looked at why, was the man all that? No!! Nothing to demean or tear myself down over..
Gina,
Thanks. Until this past year, I never “got” how a lot of what was affecting BW was related to structural issues; I’d always seen the problems as being only situational: events that happen as the result of a particular set of circumstances and key players.
Honestly, I hadn’t done enough homework to see a different facet to what was happening.
I’m starting to see things differently now, and while there are definitely situational problems, what’s sticking out is how the acquisition of resources (of all types, including $$) influences how social structures are made and reinforced. These social structures, just because they become structures, regulate and constrain how people move within their lives. It’s just like a city planner laying out the streets that permit access to certain territories, and limit access to others.
I feel like BW are at risk of being redlined out of their lives.
There are concrete tools that help create and cement power imbalances . Some are “hard” tools, like laws that can be applied or ignored. But others are “soft”: tools like bias, or the ability to define the Other and frame them in a way that always reinforces your interests, and rarely theirs.
The soft tools are very hard to dislodge, because they’re so vague. It’s like carbon monoxide – deadly because it’s so easy to mistake for something less toxic.
I didn’t understand this before, but I see now that it’s really important to call these tools out for what they are so we can do something. I realize that not everyone will, can or should have the same action plan, but we can at least have a field guide to danger.
Again, thank you for highlighting my comments.