All NORMAL human beings on some level crave whatever their concept of romantic love is. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact I think people who say they don’t crave romantic love are either dysfunctional or delusional. I think lots of folks who say they don’t need love actually crave it the most. So I’m not bashing the completely normal inclination for seeking the companionship of another adult, but I think that this Unmarriagble Black woman propaganda is nothing more than outright Psychological Warfare on PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN.
Think about it, they’ve basically already conquered poor Black women and children. They’ve segregated them in urban and rural internment camps where instead of barbed wire fences and guard towers, these Black women and children are fenced in by poverty, education, and the warlords who rain down violence indiscriminately creating a culture of hopelessness, depression and despair that sucks in generation after generation. They reinforce the tyranny of the warlords by taking over all major forms of communication, radio, television, and yes finally they’ve conquered the world of print, to convince the residents of the internment camps that this lifestyle and the rule of the warlords is normal, optimal even.
The PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN ( yeah I said PROFESSIONAL PROFESSIONAL PROFESSIONAL since people apparent think they are going to turn PROFESSIONAL into a pejorative) is a more elusive prey. Unlike the residents of the cultural internment camps, these women managed to either escape to freedom or were born free. These women are mobile. They roam freely for the most part. And most important, they control massive quantities of material resources. While violent intimidation is expected and tolerated when carried about against poor Black women, there still is some modicum of minimal resistance when such techniques are used against PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN. Many PROFESSIONAL Black women still have living male members of their families who offer them an umbrella of physical protection. Those that do not have other women in their social circle who offer them access to resources to escape violent tyranny, asylum if you will. While THE REGIME has assimilated man poor Black women to accept their rule. PROFESSIONAL Black women and their circle of support still recognize violent tyranny when they see it and find it unacceptable. Where they cannot not fight THE REGIME, they enthusiastically flee and take their resources with them.
Professional Black women are a threat to the REGIME because A) if they really wanted to, they could conquer the regime, depose its leadership and summarily execute bad actors, B) they serve as a shining beacon to others living under violent tyranny, C) some fancy themselves modern abolitionists and have the audacity to on occasion help other women and children flee the regime D) their existence is a living indictment of the lies THE REGIME uses to exert control in the cultural internment camps. If Black women have faced the same racism that THE REGIME uses as a scapegoat for its violent tyranny, they how on earth did they manage to escape the cultural interment camps. THE REGIME says that the Earth is flat, PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN prove that it is in fact round.
Having found PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN too difficult to restrain en masse physically, THE REGIME has not given up. Because it is far too dangerous to allow PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN to roam freely. Therefore, THE REGIME has waged an increasingly effective psychological war on the PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMAN. The very first step is to make sure there aren’t any more PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMEN being added to the ranks that are outside the control of the regime.
The greatest weapon THE REGIME attempts to use to control the PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMAN is the OVARIAN BOMB!(RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!)
On Wednesday we’ll talk about how THE REGIME has attempted to change the term PROFESSIONAL BLACK WOMAN into some type of pejorative.
OFFICIAL COMMENT TROLL WELCOME
I welcome the trolls that will find this post irresistible. Despite knowing your comments will never see the light of day, you will post them anyway in some deluded attempt to have your voice heard. If a comment gets sent to the spam filter automatically, did it ever exist? NOPE, but that won’t stop you from leaving some anti-Black woman screed anyway. So, my trigger finger is ready, the BLACK LIST has been expanded to include a space for each and every one of you. Welcome trolls! I go by gem2001 and I have been sent here to thrust you back into the abyss and love every minute of it.
109 comments ↓
I read about the same thing on The Black Snob blog and the question that I asked in the comment section was what in the helz is the point to this continuous coverage of the poor professional bw not getting no love. You hit the point right on the nose, it is to make us stop having a standard. The purpose is to make us stop trying and to accept our pathetic position that they told us we had in the community. It is meant to make us stop reaching, stop dreaming and to accept men who behave, act, and are as accountable for their lives as newborns into our lives.
I also think that it is becoming more and more known that we are quietly fighting back, fighting on for our OWN concerns, and though it is ok when we do so in support of bm or the bc, it is a cause for alarm when it is US. This blog and other bw blogs that discuss ways to improve our situation and does not squarely place the onus/blame on bw to make ALL of the improvements are gaining steam and recognition. It is a FEAR response that the growing message that bw are worthy, are beautiful to a LOT of men, talented, exceptional etc. and are women as all other women are in the world and should treat themselves as such will destroy the status quo.
Can you go more indept with regard to who makes up “THE REGIME”?
Gina, you are so hilarious! Thanks so much for this post. I watched the video, and was pleased to hear the conclusion I had hoped for. A couple of the young women made it clear that they ARE NOT DEFINED by whether they marry or are in a relationship. Their lives are valid, and whole even without a partnership. I am someone, at 43, wishes to have an adult life partner, but have, in my 43 years, had a fulfilling, interesting, wonderful life without one. And I continue to grow in my happiness and wholeness! I welcome a partner for the ride, but if he doesn’t arrive, that’s perfectly fine too because my life, for which I am grateful, is enormously rich. Blessings to you Gina, and I await more posts on this topic. Happy New Year!
Huh?
How did you get any of that out of a piece talking about single black women.
You know why these pieces keep getting made…they are ratings bonanzas – ’cause black women will tune in and write about it ad nauseum.
There is no war on professional black women – at least not in the way you speak of said war.
*shurgs*
It’s not some grand conspiracy here but an easy moneymaker – simple. The mainstream media has just decided to pick up on stories that black media (mainstream or otherwise) have been talking about for years.
And the reality is if you’re a woman who spent all of her 20’s and 30’s focused solely on school and career you will likely wake up 35+ single and childless.
Those women I know who made marriage and family a priority are married with a family and career.
If marriage and family is not what you want then none of this applies to you.
Simple.
But definitely no war or conspiracy to be had.
I don’t see all the hate in “real life”. Its seems to be online more than anything. There are middle age black men online sitting in their mother basements spewing hatred. They hate the beautiful women who they feel rejected them for thugs and they hate sucessful women who don’t want them b/c they don’t have anything going for themselves.
I think its also advertisers found a new niche of folks with disposable income. They found unmarried/no children adults besides the gays to market to.
Lets be real there are way poor/working class single women with children than single professional black women (I mean we have come a long way but not that far) but they just don’t have the disposable income to be marketed to.
And some BW are part of the problem too, I see their websites where they have are trying to sell their books and dating seminars and then they turn around and get mad when Steve Harvey does it.
@jj Happy New Year! I know I’m right on track if you’re being contrary.
@blkchik where did I lay blame with a particular gender???? Of course Black women are part of THE REGIME.
Gina,
Excellent post. Like most conflicts, this is largely about control over resources: In this case, AA women’s resources.
AA women are a resource that many non-reciprocating individuals, organizations, and groups (all of whom collectively form “the regime”) have benefitted from. If AA women start to focus on our own interests, then these other entitites lose a precious resource (access to our time, money, and energy).
Right now, AA women (including professional AA women who control the lion’s share of AA women’s resources) are the ones whose time, energy and money are propping up all these various non-reciprocating persons and entities. If more of us pursue our OWN interests, then these various non-reciprocating persons and entities come crashing down. These non-reciprocating people and entities don’t want that to happen.
Everybody except AA women instinctively respond to protect their access to resources. Others don’t have to have a conscious, verbally agreed-upon “conspiracy” to act in ways that seek to preserve their control over AA women’s resources. The campaign to break professional BW’s spirits is the sum of various regime members’ individual reflex reactions to seeing more BW moving our resources out of their reach.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Oh, before I forget. Let me be clear that I include ALL non-reciprocating persons, groups, and organizations as part of “the regime.”
There are plenty of AA women (including BW’s organizations) that are taking support from BW and not giving anything of value in return. Some (like the writers as Messence) go so far as to serve poison to the BW who financially support them.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Welcome back Gina. On one hand, I am also tired of stories about lonely, desperate black women. There are those of us who realize one day that they are not in a relationship because they don’t want to be. Plus, I’ve come to realize that I’m not the marrying type. I don’t want to live with anyone and I’m not interested in being obliged to anyone at this time.
However, I can appreciate the fact that there are women who do want a life partner, someone with whom to share their interests and work towards common goals. If those women happen to be professional black women between the ages of 30 and 55, pickings are slim and the going is tough. I can’t laugh at them for seeking aid from the likes of Steve Harvey.
“There are middle age black men online sitting in their mother basements spewing hatred. They hate the beautiful women who they feel rejected them for thugs and they hate sucessful women who don’t want them b/c they don’t have anything going for themselves.”
Preach! I have always felt that the loser with the sense of entitlement (which applies to the majority of dbrbm)is actually more dangerous than the most violent thug. It is not gangbangers writing these columns, posting on the blogs, creating these anti bw films, news stories etc. This propoganda is being promoted by malcontents with an ax to grind. Like you said, throughout their teen and adult lives, the “dymes” rejected them for thugs, and the accomplished women rejected them for their lack of intelligence, ambition, social skills, etc. This leaves them with an extreme hatred for BW. At least with thugs, most people know they are up to no good and take great steps to avoid them. But losers are often very good at getting ppl to sympathize with them, many unsuspecting women will say that he is just “lonely”, “misunderstood” or “insecure”. All the while he is harboring a hatred for you and secretly prays for your demise. These same “nice guys” are the ones that commit heinous acts after one too many women rejects them. Stop feeling sorry for these men and stop engaging with them online or in person!
When will Steve Harvey 15 minutes be up???
@blk chik, yeeeessssss!!!!
Happy New Year to all and welcome back Gina! I’m soo-ooo-oo glad you back!
You of course made an excellent point. And no place is the “regime” more notorious than SOME of our churches. Don’t believe me? Well, in SOME churches the regime is called, “The Singles’ Ministry.”
Good point Gina and yes JJ I think it is a conspiracy much like all other conspiracies to undermine black people. Maybe they don’t sit in smoke-filled rooms but there is a concensus that it is somehow okay to attack black women for being successful. For example why is it always portrayed as black women are not worthwile and not why are black men not good marriage material?
Why aren’t white media saying what can we do to make black men more acceptable?
I’ll tell you because then you not only would support the black woman, especially the professional women, who, as Gina said, the one holding it down in our community right now, but you would build up a strong group of black men to equal her. Then we wouldn’t have fatherless boys growing up to be Dunbar Village rapists and Chicago beatdown artists. Other poor, uneducated black women stop believing they are being better “women” and more desirable partners by not getting educated.
I wonder what Tyler Perry has in store for Why Did I Get Married Too, since the whole film is basically lets slam the BW with a job. Looks like it even got some domestic violence involved (TP seems think men should smack women who become to “uppity”)
“I see their websites where they have are trying to sell their books and dating seminars and then they turn around and get mad when Steve Harvey does it.”
I can’t speak for anyone else who has a book or dating seminar, but for myself my beef with Steve Harvey is pretty clear. He has neither the background, credentials, or moral authority to advise anyone, especially not black women who he has preyed upon for any number of years. To call the man a pig is to insult swine everywhere. This is not merely a situation where someone is trying to sell a book or seminar. Harvey is a pimp and a mack, it’s just that simple.
There is no conspiracy.
Professional women in general are dogged – the white woman version is the ice cold ball breaking bitch.
Sandra Bullock’s second most successful movie The Proposal is the perfect example of this caricature.
Black professional women aren’t any more immune to that caicature than any other woman. The Patriarchy is threatened by powerful women – this isn’t new or news.
As far as ovarian warfare – women exact that on themselves. Biology is what biology is. Either you plan for it or you wake up one day and your chances of having a baby are gone.
The media’s take on this is irrelevant. Women (black women) need to PLAN for their reproductive futures – folk pointing that out doesn’t make it a war.
Women (black women) need to PLAN for their reproductive futures
How about the companionship of a husband? Not all married people have kids. Its not about just having a baby, its also about having a baby in a stable enviornment, although accidents do happen. While the upper class is raising and grooming their children for the future we have a bunch of young mothers struggling and raising kids just getting by hoping schools an community centers do what should be done in the home. Black kids are barely doing better than the children of 3rd world immigrants in this country.
And I am sure grandmoms love their grandkids but I am sure they would love a break to instead of raising 2 generations of children.
If folks cared about what the kids wanted they would know that most children do want to live with both of their parents or have STRONG relationships with both. And I don’t think that happens if they can’t even remember living w/ both of their parents ever.
Don’t get me started on a lot of the pathology of mama’s boys b/c these women have subsitituted their lack of mate by spoiling their sons , handicapping the son from ever becoming a strong head of household.
He has neither the background, credentials, or moral authority to advise anyone, especially not black women who he has preyed upon for any number of years.
But he is a man, thus he does have a certain expertise on the how men think. He states quite clearly that he is not an expert on relationships but being an older man, he has a reasonable degree of knowledge of men. He’s not telling anyone how to function in their relationships. He’s telling what men think, how men feel and how men respond.
This is one of the problems commonplace with such discussions. Many women don’t want to allow men to explain how men are. Women often times formulate their own opinions about how men think and will not only dispute a man’s knowledge of himself, but will respond in anger when a man expresses his knowledge of himself. Then you are accused of having preyed on women in the past.
Not to get off the subject but, I keep hearing these statements about Steve Harvey being a pig and that he married his mistress and etc. etc.
Would some one provide a link or reference or something for those accusations?
I am not doubting it or anything, I must have just missed something. Because I haven’t heard any of this other than he is married for the second time.
If you read his book< he admits to being a cheater
My question is this: why do black folk constantly allow COMEDIANS to become our our social engineers? Why the heck do they even get to sit at the table? What qualifies Chris Rock, et al to lecture black women any any dayum thing?
“But he is a man, thus he does have a certain expertise on the how men think.”
Great, so why the hell isn’t he talking to men? The last thing black women need is a misogynist pig trying to tell us what we should be doing. It seems to me that if anyone needs a good talking to it’s black men, but of course, there’s no profit in that.
Let me see if I can explain something to you, how men think is irrelevant to the conversation. We don’t need a Rosetta Stone to make some great revelation about how men think. What we need is for women to focus on WHAT WE THINK. It’s our needs, wants and desires we need to put on the front burner. It’s about time we focus our attention on us. Y’all can either catch up or be left in the dust.
“Because I haven’t heard any of this other than he is married for the second time.”
This is actually his THIRD wife. She was the woman he cheated on his second wife with.
“Great, so why the hell isn’t he talking to men? The last thing black women need is a misogynist pig trying to tell us what we should be doing. It seems to me that if anyone needs a good talking to it’s black men, but of course, there’s no profit in that.”
EXACTLY!! We seem to be under the impression that Black women are the ones who need to change something. He should have written the book for men. IN fact I find it hysterical that men are defending Steve Harvey when he portrays men as simple amoeba-like creatures who only respond to the stimuli of sex. Its patriarchal drivel. According to Steve Harvey, if there were no women , men would lay around the house nekkid in dirty sox watching ESPN all day long.
And yes, in what world do we rely on comedians to provide relationship counseling. Maybe he should have handed his second wife this book.
“Great, so why the hell isn’t he talking to men? The last thing black women need is a misogynist pig trying to tell us what we should be doing.”
He has to talk to women and not to men, because his “advice” will help to foster the emotional insecurities in women that he and other men like him continue to benefit from.
Ohh, wow yea I did not read his book so I was not aware of all of his cheating and his THIRD wife you say, dang!!!
Grrrrrr
Every new article or tv segment about this crap reinforces the fact that the majority of African-American women are goners.
As the bulk of AfAm women (professional or non) sit and wait for a solution to their marriage problems and broadcast them for the world to see the more they will look like easy prey. I don’t get why these women don’t see that they are doing more harm than good.
I think a lot of the black women that write these books or sign up to be on TV are trying to publicly shame black men into marriage. They think that the more they advertise just how lonely and desperate they are, “quality” black men will feel bad and start marrying black women in droves. Why do I think this? Because these women don’t seem to want to be proactive and find a solution to their problems.
A solution meaning date outside their race or culture, move to an area where there are better chances for young professionals to hook-up and start families (read: no major “black” cities) and stop waiting for Denzel or Idris Elba to approach you at happy hour. Because guess what, Denzel and Idris are being approached by dozens of women every day so chances are they have given up on being the hunter.
As far as a war on professional women, I agree with GEM but I also kind of agree with JJ. I think that highly accomplished women who carry their career aggression into their personal lives are looked down upon regardless of race. It is a very tough balancing act, especially for women that work in male-dominated industries like law or finance. However, I have met many aggressive non-black women who repeatedly bitch and moan about their husbands and children. The fact of that matter is that men of other races do not see aggression as a reason to cancel out a woman for marriage. Nor do they see excess weight, fake hair, fake body parts, a “questionable” past, awkward social skills, loud mouths, poor financial management, etc as a reason to not marry a woman. It seems as if African American men have the strictest requirements for African-American women when it comes to marriage. No matter what a black woman does or doesn’t do, there will always be a reason (according to a large segment of black men) as to why she is unfit for marriage.
Why do BW keep trying to prove that they are worthy of marriage when it is obvious that the men they are seeking DO NOT THINK THEY ARE WORTHY?
The fact of that matter is that men of other races do not see aggression as a reason to cancel out a woman for marriage. Nor do they see excess weight, fake hair, fake body parts, a “questionable” past, awkward social skills, loud mouths, poor financial management, etc as a reason to not marry a woman. It seems as if African American men have the strictest requirements for African-American women when it comes to marriage. No matter what a black woman does or doesn’t do, there will always be a reason (according to a large segment of black men) as to why she is unfit for marriage
…..not reasons more like excuses for not wanting to date black women.
EXACTLY REESE If you are trying to sell your house you don’t run around talking about how no body will make an offer on your home. If your a catch, your’re a catch. You don’t stop being a King Salmon just because you haven’t encountered a hook.
Yes, I wish Black women would stop this foolishness. Live your life!
The last thing we need to be encouraging women to do is to waste their time sitting around wondering about what some knucklehead thinks. Free lesson ladies, if dude wants to be with you, you won’t have to wonder about what he thinks because he’s going to tell you, his best friend, his mama, his dog and anybody else that will listen. Don’t waste your time talking to some dude you need a damned magic decoder ring to understand. Keep it moving. Remember, you’re the jewel, he should be somewhere trying to figure YOU out.
# 26 “According to Steve Harvey, if there were no women , men would lay around the house nekkid in dirty sox watching ESPN all day long.”
- Ummmm, well I think there might be a small point to be made of that
I happen to know a few brotha’s that are not as outgoing and a bit to shy to approach a sista and that is just about what there day consist of.
Of course what I hear from them is that, they are are not the type of BM a BW takes interest in because they are not that stereotypical suave black male.
I dont think that there is a problem finding eligible men to marry…just black eligible men to marry. I have never been interested in marrying a black man so I never had a problem dating and marrying. I married right after graduating from undergraduate b/c I understood that there are more opportunities to meet similar minded men while in college. So I let it be known that I was interested in white, asian, and hispanic men…thus my marriage ‘problem’ was solved. It seems in these broadcasts regarding the limited marriage opportunities for Professional Black women, there is an assumption that we need to marry a black man. Not the case. This is a free country and I refused to deal with the mess that the typical black man brings to the table. I married my husband 14 years ago and have been so happy with my choice. If a woman doesn’t want to marry then this discussion isn’t for her…I assume that most women who discuss this want a partner in life. A well lived life can be had with or without a marriage partner.
“Of course what I hear from them is that, they are are not the type of BM a BW takes interest in because they are not that stereotypical suave black male.”
TOTAL BS!
Where are these mythical Black women that are turning down these non suave Black men? At the Cat Scratch Club? Not buying the “NO Black woman will have me” nonsense. I don’t believe them. They need more people.
“A well lived life can be had with or without a marriage partner.”
Cosign
Steve Harvey is “advising” professional black women on their “man troubles” because THEY are the ones complaining in public about not being able to find husbands. Several months ago, I actually saw a black woman on television crying real tears over her feeling that black women were being rejected by black men (I kid you not). Black men, whatever their “issues”, don’t seem to be having trouble attracting the opposite sex. At any rate, they aren’t complaining about it in public. Mr. Harvey, therefore, would have no reason to direct his “relationship advice” to black men because they are not the ones crying out in public about how lonely they are.
I think that complaining about being “manless” in public is not a good thing because it creates the impression that professional black women are desperate. This is not a good public image. Men ordinarily are not attracted to desperation in women. They run from it. Unless they are men who want to take advantage of the situation. Just my opinion.
“It seems as if African American men have the strictest requirements for African-American women when it comes to marriage. No matter what a black woman does or doesn’t do, there will always be a reason (according to a large segment of black men) as to why she is unfit for marriage. ”
I preach this to my daughters all the time. Black men seem to have put these unrealistic expectation on black women. Just listen to the rap songs like ‘Five Star Chick” and Miss Independent. Black men are the only race of men openly bragging that only a certain type of black women is good to marry, even when many of them don’t nearly meet the same criteria. I have said it before on this and other websites. As a bw women who spent years in corporate America and higher learning institutions with white women, I can honestly say white women and other women have it easier when it comes to the dating and marrying.
Most of the black women come to work drop dead gorgeous, like the women in the Nightline episode, but go home alone. White women and Asian women, many who are below average, have husbands. Some how black men have come to make black women believe they have to be dymes, five star chicks , and miss independent in order to worthy of a black man love.
I agree with the idea of dating outside one’s race. Other races of women have no problem dating out, but bw still believe their only prince charming is a black man.
Wow, Blkchk that was a really profound comment.
The primary reasons (besides love and companionship) a woman gets married is to have protection for herself and her offspring; and also to be provided for.
I am very much in favor of a woman being educated and having a career and all the luxuries she wants, but I also believe that during the women’s movement and subsequent mini movements, we overcorrected, thus destabilizing our homes. We listened to people who had more secure social safety nets and believed their fate would be ours. Instead of correcting behaviors e.g. girls having babies as teens and boys making babies and walking away from them, we, women became the safety net and allowed the “men” to walk away without a care in the world. We never looked at these males for what they are. We collectively, never made them accountable. We used excuses like, “our men” are being persecuted that’s why we should stay with them, they’re trying, it’s hard out there for a Black man.
As for the mama’s boys, I believe you are dead on with that analysis. Also, although this is not totally the woman’s fault (where’s the man in the equation?) boys seem very feminized to me. This is not natural. I think this is obviously, by product of not having a man around.
Great, so why the hell isn’t he talking to men? The last thing black women need is a misogynist pig trying to tell us what we should be doing. It seems to me that if anyone needs a good talking to it’s black men, but of course, there’s no profit in that
He’s not talking to men because men know how men think. If I wanted to understand how women feel, who should I ask? I would say women. The problem is that women don’t listen. The world revolves around your opinions, needs, desires, wants, etc. Men are simply emotionless props to you who are supposed to remain stoic less he be labeled unmanly. It’s no wonder men commit suicide at four times the rate of women and young boys and men are loosing all motivation.
And can you justify your labeling of Harvey as a “misogynist”?
Let me see if I can explain something to you, how men think is irrelevant to the conversation.
I would say that it may be irrelevant to you, but it must be relevant to 1.5 million others who bought the book.
We don’t need a Rosetta Stone to make some great revelation about how men think.
No you don’t need Rosetta Stone. You simply need to listen. So many women commonly believe that they have men all figured out and that there is no need to listen. And the result is constant frustration, complaining and finger pointing with nothing resolved.
What we need is for women to focus on WHAT WE THINK. It’s our needs, wants and desires we need to put on the front burner. It’s about time we focus our attention on us. Y’all can either catch up or be left in the dust.
Sorry, but women already do this. In this modern world, women do practice the “all about me” mentality which is one of the reasons for the high single rate. Few men want self centered women and self centered women are abundant.
And face it. It’s not a case of anyone declaring being single as bad. Quite simply, most women simply do not want to be single. Most women want male companionship. And for that majority, I would recommend finding men who are honest and listening to them.
So can we all agree to pass a law forbidding Professional Black women from complaining publicly about their unmarried state?
I really don’t care whose fault it is at this point. I’m just tired of hearing about it. If Black men don’t want Black women fine! Move along and don’t look back. If Black women feel the same way. Fine! Move on and don’t look back.
Show me a segment on content BLack women who are single and are not looking.
TOTAL BS!
Where are these mythical Black women that are turning down these non suave Black men? At the Cat Scratch Club? Not buying the “NO Black woman will have me” nonsense. I don’t believe them. They need more people.
Well, you may declare this total BS, but that doesn’t mean that it is. Many of us have observed this for years. Of course, this is something that women tend to overlook, but if you would simply listen to men and not simply toss our views and observations out the window, you may begin to understand that such behavior is a true problem.
#35 They would have them possibly, that is not what I am saying.
What I am saying is that, they themselves are a bit to shy and or reserve to step to some of these BW. They claim that they are virtually looked past by some of the BW, and that it is because they do not carry them selves in that maner.
The reality is not so much that BW will not want them but, more about them not feeling confident enough in themselves to approach them and make the first move.
But, trust me any and every BM can not go out and date when ever he chooses.
I have another friend who does occasionally date but, do to his occupation “Federal Agent” he often doesn’t get a 2nd and 3rd date because he says some of the BW get paranoid about is line of work.
Still I do understand your point and I agree that it is not as hopeless as they claim at times.
#34 Good for you and your non BM husband, I think every BM you would have married dodged a major bullet. I personal am glad that you find us so unattractive and undesirable myself.
One thing we should make clear: black women have NO PROBLEM ‘attracting’ black men. The enormous OOW rate alone should make that obvious. Even the women in the segment are dating NON-COMMITTAL black men.
Therefore, the last person they should listen to is a womanizing black man. Period.
I don’t pretend to be a relationship expert, but my advice to those who MUST have a black man who is family minded, educated, etc is not to sleep on Carribbean men (not posers who have lived in the USA all their lives – but born and raised, educted ones). Most of them have not (yet) drunk the KoolAid against black women and would give their eye-teeth for these beauties.
Other than that, I would direct them to the IR blogs.
RE #34 Good for you and your non BM husband, I think every BM you would have married dodged a major bullet. I personal am glad that you find us so unattractive and undesirable myself Touche’
I have another friend who does occasionally date but, do to his occupation “Federal Agent” he often doesn’t get a 2nd and 3rd date because he says some of the BW get paranoid about is line of work.
Again, he needs more people. What kind of women is he dealing with that they are paranoid about his work? And why do they know what he does on the first date anyway. It could just as easily be a case that he doesn’t get a 2nd or 3rd date for any other reason. Again, y’all need more people.
ne thing we should make clear: black women have NO PROBLEM ‘attracting’ black men. The enormous OOW rate alone should make that obvious. Even the women in the segment are dating NON-COMMITTAL black men.
Co-sign!
Wow!
I’m sure the folks at ABC and elsewhere are enjoying all this, as well as all the other blogs on which this subject has been so heavily debated.
I think someone above said that, “reporting” on this is always quite a ratings boom for these networks; even when CNN ran its “Black In America” series. We debate and debate, often turning on each other, as the debate evolves or devolves into something less savory, and ultimately, not helpful.
I think Gina said it best in her last comment: “I really don’t care whose fault it is at this point. I’m just tired of hearing about it. If Black men don’t want Black women fine! Move along and don’t look back. If Black women feel the same way. Fine! Move on and don’t look back. Show me a segment on content Black women who are single and are not looking.”
Or a segment on black women who are actually in happy relationships (whether with black men or non-black men). I’d love to see that actually; because if the myriad of reports, articles, TV shows, movies, etc, are anything to go by, one could easily get so consumed and even depressed by it all, as it all feeds on itself, and one forgets that, yes, there are indeed black men and black women in this country who are together, married or otherwise, and working in unison to make sense of it all, and ensure that their union works. We need to see more of those images to counter the dominant images of “Negro miserablism” that we’re frequently bombarded with.
As for why Steve Harvey is suddenly an expert on male/female relationships?? I dunno… blame the myriad of people (I haven’t seen stats, but likely mostly women) who bought his book, looking for answers; blame the talk show hosts who have him on to answer audience questions on relationships; blame the news reporters who call on him to share his “wisdom” on the matter. He’s just a business man; and it he’s being given a platform from which to spew, I can’t knock him for not taking advantage.
#44 You should talk to some of the Carribbean woman I know, about there so called “family minded” Carribbean men. One woman I use to work with always told the story of living in Jamaica and the husband’s having children on both sides of the street.
I think there are still a handful of us BM in the US and outside of the US that are still “family minded”.
Directing BW to IR blogs may only lead them to a misogynistic WM that only considers them a exotic fetish to be preyed upon.
#45 good advice and it was some that I and my wife did give him.
I am sick of my wife’s and my marriage being consider almost a fairytale to our single black friends. She isn’t perfect and I am not half as suave as I think I am
“Directing BW to IR blogs may only lead them to a misogynistic WM that only considers them a exotic fetish to be preyed upon.”
Are you serious? Are you serious? And this isn’t an attitude exhibited by Black men as well? Look at the OOW birth rate. You’re not preying on someone by impregnating them and then abandoning them? Black men are just as capable of FETISHIZING Black women as any other race of men. The whole point of this website is misogyny in the BLACK community. I’ll take seriously your concerns when I see an uprising to address misogyny in the BLACK community. So when you gon’ start that campaign? CRICKETS
Of all the arguments against directing someone to an IR dating site, this is the best you could come up with?
So if you’re a woman who is happy and content being single why does this bother you?
ALL women don’t feel their lives are happy and content sans a husband or boyfriend. Some people WANT to be with someone. Nothing wrong with that.
Everyone doesn’t want to marry IR. Some folk WANT a black man. Nothing wrong with that either.
Once again I’ll say these stories get made b/c black women EAT THEM UP. Just can’t stop talking about it.
And Will makes one good point – women should probably ask men what they want if their is tons of curiosity on WHY black men aren’t marrying (some) black women.
‘Cause last I checked if 42% of black women haven’t been aren’t going to get married then that means 58% are married/will get married. And the IR marriage rate is tiny…so those women are marrying some black men.
The other point people miss is that women with masters degrees or better do marry they just marry later in life then their less educated counterparts.
*shrugs*
All this hand wringing over an issue that’s been discussed since the early 90’s is beyond amusing.
As far as Steve Harvey somebody wanted to hear what he had to say. The book was a hell of a best seller.
“So if you’re a woman who is happy and content being single why does this bother you?”
@jj because ms. smartypants I care about lots of issues that affect other people because I’m compassionate and have the ability to sympathize with others. In addition, I also think that this is intended as an attack on professional black women. I happen to be one. I don’t think this has to do with ROMANCE at all. I think it has to do with control.
I don’t have kids, but I pay property taxes for schools without complaint.
And if you think this is much a doo about nothing, why you all up in the comment’s section today *shrugs*
“‘Cause last I checked if 42% of black women haven’t been aren’t going to get married then that means 58% are married/will get married. And the IR marriage rate is tiny…so those women are marrying some black men.”
I agree, why don’t we ever hear about the 58%? hmm? Why does this minority of the population get so much attention in MSM?
I simply point out the statement you made your self “as any other race of men.”
BM do not have a “corner” on that market and that is the way is was almost made to sound. That pointing someone to an IR Blog solves all problems. That simply avoiding BM or American BM, will prevent abuse and misogyny.
….and I campaign against misogyny among BM on a very regular basis with young black males I tutor and come into contact with in other related social activities.
“Look at the OOW birth rate.” – I can’t argue with that point, and that specifically is something I so address on the regular with these same young black males.
And this isn’t an attitude exhibited by Black men as well?
Tusk91 never said this. I interpreted it as him saying that you may jump out of one bad situation into another.
And I don’t see how there can be an interracial fetish involving folks of the same race.
“As far as Steve Harvey somebody wanted to hear what he had to say. The book was a hell of a best seller.”
So was Paris Hilton and Sarah Palin’s. Folk will buy anything from any fool they see on TV. Doesn’t mean there’s actually any value or worth in it.
Gina, I firmly follow the notion of if you want to get married you will. Black women are just the latest target of the whole ‘education is bad for women’ crap used shock our biological clock. I remember when I was in middle school there was an article about how white women over 35 who never married had a better chance of being struck by lightning.
Black women and men get married all the time. Shoot, just ask my bf cousins who keep making me buy all these ugly bridesmaid gowns. Getting married is really not that hard, just finding the right person and staying married is where stuff gets difficult.
Heck, even I got married(to a loser) but married nonetheless. Probably get married again in the next few years. My best advice to black women: enjoy your life. Live outside the box. If you want a good black man, good for you, just be realistic about your options. But don’t let anyone tell you that just because you’re a black woman you’re suppose to live some subpar life. Live the best life you can. Don’t accept bullcrap just because of the color of your skin.
I agree, why don’t we ever hear about the 58%? hmm? Why does this minority of the population get so much attention in MSM?
Because Ms. Can’t see she’s playing into the MSM it’s a ratings BONANZA – how many black women blogs have written about or linked to this video?
How many blog posts, articles, e-mails have been sent about this very topic?
You’re the reason why this story keep getting made. I have several blogs – a good many of which deal with black women and one in particular that deals with black women and relationships – and haven’t written about it once – why – ’cause I know when I’m being played.
The gabfest that was sparked by the Nightline segment will guarantee that more of these gems are made.
And what attack on professional black women?
Newsflash: if you put your dating life on the back burner you will likely be single and if you wait too long you will have non-working eggs.
That’s not an attack – that’s true.
It may be annoying that folk want to talk about it ad nauseum but if folk stop giving it play – they’d stop making the segments.
@Shecodes I’ve dated my fair share of Caribbean and African men – they may marry but they keep many a woman on the side.
Different problem.
nd I don’t see how there can be an interracial fetish involving folks of the same race.
You’re being intentionally obtuse. A fetish is a fetish. Whether its feet, boobs, skin color or hair texture. Its a fetish. Men who fetishize women exist in all groups. They’re bad. Period.
Gina, I firmly follow the notion of if you want to get married you will. Black women are just the latest target of the whole ‘education is bad for women’ crap used shock our biological clock. I remember when I was in middle school there was an article about how white women over 35 who never married had a better chance of being struck by lightning.
I made this point A GAZILLION times on another blog – white women get hit with the professional ice cold ball breaking b*tch stereotype.
Getting married is really not that hard, just finding the right person and staying married is where stuff gets difficult.
Hello! This isn’t rockett science. Women who want to be married and who put in the work to get there will be.
@Roslyn
So was Paris Hilton and Sarah Palin’s. Folk will buy anything from any fool they see on TV. Doesn’t mean there’s actually any value or worth in it.
There may be no value in to to you but that doesn’t mean other people (and apparently a great many other people) don’t find value in it.
@tusk91: I’m not going to turn this into a war of anecdotes. I am from the Carribbean and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are plenty of excellent options for professional American black women there.
As for the IR blogs: women who date in exclusively black circles encounter ‘misogynistic men who only consider bw a fetish to be preyed on’ with striking regularity…
Therefore I know that bw who expand their options will be able to recognize that behavior from a man of any race. We aren’t stupid.
I am sick of bw being pressured to limit themselves to your admitted ‘handful’ of family minded BM. It’s malarky and you know it.
I’ll tell me own true-to-life fairytale:
My fiance made it clear 2 weeks into our dating that he was checking me out as a potential wife and mother of his children. 6 months later, he flew me to Grenada to meet his family and I vacationed there for 2 months — and fell in love with his family.
He exposed his life, his family, and his financial situation for my consideration. He is suave and I am perfect, but that is beside the point. (LOL) Our wedding date is Aug 28 2010.
My point is, too many fabulous bw are being sold some crap story about lowering expectations, turning rocks over for the elusive ‘good man’, or praying to Jesus for something that should have been FREELY theirs in the first place.
I am in my late 30’s and would have been further along on the marriage front if I had ignored all of the counter-logical drivel that is directed at us.
The only problem with bw is that we listen to people who have something to gain by keeping the status quo.
I’m glad that you have a good marriage. Gold star for you. Now run along and allow black women to find the same thing.
@Shecodes
Congratulations!
“My point is, too many fabulous bw are being sold some crap story about lowering expectations, turning rocks over for the elusive ‘good man’, or praying to Jesus for something that should have been FREELY theirs in the first place.”
Thank you! And Congrats!
I am sick of bw being pressured to limit themselves to your admitted ‘handful’ of family minded BM.
Black women are not pressured to do any such thing. If black women limit themselves, it is due to personal preference, not some imagined pressure. And I’m not sure who “admitted” to their being a “handful” of family minded black men. Just because a man has not found the woman he wishes to marry doesn’t make him not family oriented.
Look at the OOW birth rate.
The black OOW birth rate is around the lowest it has been in 40 years.
@will that’s just not true. There is PLENTY of pressure for Black women to either “lower their standards” or stop being picky, pray harder or look harder or any number of standard replies to any mention of the possibility of expanding the dating pool to include other races of men. I’m pretty sure any number of Black women who run IR blogs can attest to the vitriolic hatred they encounter.
Just because I’m not subjected to it doesn’t mean I haven’t observed it.
#60 Congrats Shecodes and I really do mean that sincerely, and you do make valid points
A male poster on the Black Snob posted a link in which he explained how when he met his wife…”she was superior to him in every way…more educated, making more money, more emotionally grounded” and so on. He suggested that BW be more open to working “with” and growing “with” a BM.
Since marriage is no longer valued in the BC, this is what many BM seek …a BW who excels in so many ways.. You would have to be a “fool” not to marry her, never a peer or someone on the same level in terms of attractiveness, skill, values or drive.
Because we vastly outnumber BM they don’t have to marry unless they meet that vastly “superior”, richer, thinner, smarter care-giving beauty.
The sofa sitting computer nerd does have his BF counterpart, but he doesn’t really want to do the work to find and get her, because he feels if he does work it should be for the “vastly superior” woman.
Thanks JJ and Gina. (Gina, I will send you an invite in March)
#65 “There is PLENTY of pressure for Black women to either “lower their standards””
- I always wondered if it would be considered for a professional BW to lower her standards if she dates say a cop, fireman, postal worker, UPS guy and etc. ???
I mean I understand the argument although I don’t think it is all together true, that a woman of any other race is not asked to lower there standards.
But, is it not entirely possible for a BW to have plenty in common with a BM that is any of those professions but, does not have as high of an education as she does?
I mean it happens all the time, and for many of these professional BW, they are just working stiffs like everyone else. They may not be anymore career driven than that cop or fireman.
They simply have a degree and work for a living, there is nothing that would inherently make there profession and educational background any more or less compatible with some one who is a Blue Collar.
OH I am so honored. I look forward to getting the invite.
OH here we go @tusk91 with the Black women won’t date Blue collar men argument.
I can’t speak for everybody else, but I don’t define the quality of a man based on his chosen occupation, but then that’s a luxury I have. Because I lived, and went to school with a bunch of White collar men, I likely don’t prize them in the same way as someone who hasn’t. Not for their job titles anyway. Compatibility is about values and interests And yes, that includes what a man brings to the table. Every woman’s “table” is difference.
But you use poor examples as all of those occupations tend to be UNION with insane benefits packages. They all have access to overtime and thus can make as much or more than someone with a master’s degree. Which health plan would you prefer, the fireman’s or the middle manager’s. I’ll take the self-funded city health plan thank you very much. So what’s your point?
Don’t y’all ever come up with anything new. Go read some back issues of ESSENCE for the same old claptrap “Black women wont’ date blue collar men” At this point you’re just grasping at straws. Give it up.
FIrst of all I want to thank you for linking to this blog, all links increase out Technorati authority and that’s always a great thing, but if you think this thread is going to turn into yet another sand pit so you can WHINE about Black women who run blogs dealing with interracial marriage, you got another thing coming. Its 2010 and I’m not having it. Why don’t ya’ll get some new interests in 2010 other than combing the net looking for any discussion that might tangentially mention IR dating and marriage.
Its none of your business who other people date and marry. We don’t own each other.Notice, that at no point in this discussion have I discussed who folks choose to marry. That ain’t my business.
This is where I got my info from Gina (hope this is more acceptable).
http://home.att.net/~grantburger/paper.html
Majete’s studies have shown that white women marrying black men are more likely to be alienated by their family mostly because of the negative reputation that the black man has in society today. This reputation is that most black men are drug dealers, gang members, or are in a relationship for nothing but sex, and as soon as they get someone pregnant, they run off and find another “victim”. Most black men have some problems getting their family to accept that type of marriage also. On the other hand white men and black women tend to have high acceptance rates from both sides of the families for this marriage, with the black woman having a slightly lower acceptance rate than the white man.
@will why is it that ANY TIME Black women have a discussion about THIER LIVES, men invade the conversation and attempt to hijack that conversation for their own agenda?
I don’t believe that I am doing that. I believe that I am participating and adding another perspective. Are not opposing points of view welcome?
Well clearly opposing point of views are welcome. Haven’t you read any of JJ’s comments? Don’t give me that “opposing” views aren’t welcome BS either. Its 2010 and I’m not having that either this year. This thread has plenty of opposing point of views. That’s why its so dayum long. So go try that “all views aren’t welcome” BS somewhere else as well. I think I’ll ban the next person that whines about not being “welcome.” If you truly felt unwelcome, why are you here? I don’t go where I’m unwanted.
In other words, move along and stop whining about how I manage MY BLOG. She who pays the hosting fee makes the rules.
According to the story the never married rate for black women is twice the rate for white women. Why? Is it because white women do not get ‘too educated’ and are not demanding and therefore able to get a man? Do white women take any man to marry and black women are too picky? I don’t think so. The gap, i believe, is due to the fact that black men do not value marriage as much. So when you do have a black man that wants to marry he thinks that he should be able to get a black women WAY out of his league and if that black women does not want to settle being the breadwinner then she is being to picky. Why can’t the black women MBA marry a UPS driver? My question is why would the UPS driver think he should even be able to pursue a corporate executive. If both are black, he woould have no problem approaching he black women executive. Do you think the black UPS driver would approach the white woman executive….NO WAY. Black women are told over and over to settle b/c of the color of her skin and I think that is crazy. Find someone who is on your level or better if you are a woman and let the men find someone on their level or lower. The blue coolar black men do not seem to want the women on his level or lower. They always seem like they want to reach up for a black woman who has surpassed them in so many ways.
As far a showing black women in committed relationships on TV, don’t hold your breath. And you will rarely see a black woman in an interracial relationship that is going well. The MSM wants to portray our lives as so much less when there are so many of us that have moved beyond this crazy thinking.
Manipulators are so good at manipulating because they know how to prey on the valid emotions of others and use it to the manipulators gain. The “regime” in it’s various forms (the black church, BET, marketers, book publishers, etc…) have taken a perfectly natural and valid feeling (the desire for a significant other) and twisted it into a desperate pursuit. That’s why it’s so effective and so insidious.
There’s nothing unhealthy about pursuing a mate just as there is nothing unhealthy about choosing to remain without a significant partner. Nor is it anybody else’s business who a person chooses or does not choose to have as his or her partner. The thing is NONE OF THIS MATTERS. As long as the manipulator can find something, anything to get get the manipulated ones all wound up then BINGO the manipulator has the upper hand. All the “regime” has to do is plant the little seed in our heads, let US think WE put it there and off we go in all different directions!!! Meanwhile the regime can move onto getting it’s needs met sucking us of our finances, intelligence, gifts, talents etc… now that our brains are foggy.
A person cannot be manipulated if she first, recognizes the strategy being used against her, second sets up clear boundaries to not allow the foolishness to penetrate her and third removes herself out of harms way.
I’m trying to learn this day by day. It helps me when reading and seeking guidance on things such as finding a mate for myself. There are many predators out there trying to take whatever they can get. There are also kind and empowering people. Sometimes they look the same at first glance.
I look forward to reading your blog on Wednesday to help me and others recognize strategies such as the “ovarian bomb” or the “black women are a fetish” or “don’t be a sellout to the black man” strategies that you have pointed out to us.
#71 “Compatibility is about values and interests And yes, that includes what a man brings to the table. Every woman’s “table” is difference.”
- That was my only point, whether it was a rehash of the same old ESSENCE claptrap or not. I actually think that it probably happens a lot more often than not.
Just had a question as to if those professional BW who have married those types, be looked at to have lower there standards and settled.
“Just had a question as to if those professional BW who have married those types, be looked at to have lower there standards and settled.”
No, I think what you want is for us to validate or somehow signify our willingness to marry a “blue collar” man. Just like some idiot who asked me to indicate that I “didn’t hate Black men” when I first started this blog. Its manipulative. I don’t have to prove my loyalty to Black men or anything else.
Regarding whether a Black woman who was a lawyer would marry a man who wasn’t, of course they would. Most of my classmates married non lawyers. I have a friend who married a bus driver. She’s happy, but he is also UNION and when she was out in solo practice, he held it down so she could pursue her dreams. He’s the anchor for their family and she’s the wings. He provides the safety net of a steady income and benefits that provides them an extremely comfortable life in suburbia. Again, her definition of happiness is suburban motherhood and the freedom to be self employed, he can give her that. Every woman’s definition is different and SHE’S ENTITLED TO WHATEVER DEFINITION SHE WANTS without being questioned by you or me!
As a personal matter, I’m not concerned with job titles, but security. Careers tend to represent training education, interests and experience which translates into whatever type of security a woman seeks. That’s normal and natural for a woman to seek a mate who she thinks can protect her and her progeny. How a woman defines protection and security varies.
My definition =If I got hit by a bus, could this man keep a roof over my head and the heads of my children? Is this man willing to sell his non essential organs on the black market to make sure my children don’t starve? Would he build a home with his bare bleeding hands out of scrap wood or trees he felled in the forrest with an axe or join the military before he would allow me and my children to be homeless? Will I be able to enjoy a better quality of life due to combined households? If I can’t then what’s the point? Can I take him somewhere and have him hold his own in a conversation or at least have the sense to shut the heck up and not embarrass the hell-yel out of me? Do his subjects and his verbs agree? Does he have a passport? If not, why not and is he willing to get one and use it frequently? Now all of those are threshold questions, minimum requirements that aren’t connected to any particular occupation.
Meaning, is he on my level? I don’t care how he gets to my level, as long as he is on my level. Some women may have a particular reason for preferring a man that went to a specific college or university, but that’s not something that’s the exclusive province of Black women.
None of this is what this post about, you’re attempting to critique Black women’s definitions of a suitable mate. This post is about the singular focus on trying to portray single Black professional women as monolithically unmarried. You can keep coming back with you thinly veiled critiques and questions, but my response is the same. A person’s standards ain’t none of my business. That’s a highly personal decision that all human beings are entitled to. Notice I have never discussed the women Black men choose to marry. That’s their business. They are entitled to their “standards.”
Ok, questioned asked and answered then
I am from the Caribbean. SheCodes, I am really glad that you were able to find someone nice and, like you, when I first saw the women in the clip I said: “Those women would DEFINITELY be considered real catches to men in the Caribbean.” But, because you were able to find someone there does not mean that that is the same reality for most or even many women in the Caribbean. Most women in the Caribbean that I know of are experiencing EXACTLY the same issues that I hear African-American women speaking about. Unfortunately, most of the men in the Caribbean who would make decent partners to those women are already married. The ones that would be available are more likely than not adhering to the same old stereotypes. Unemployed, womanizing with children here, there and everywhere. And a lot of them have adopted this attitude that they are not going to do anything in life, that a woman is supposed to look after them. I’m sorry but it’s true. I know it’s not true in your case and that’s wonderful, but I think people need to sometimes show a little empathy and not assume that because something worked out for them, that it will work the same for everyone. But I am very happy for you and congrats on your upcoming wedding.
“OH here we go @tusk91 with the Black women won’t date Blue collar men argument.”
I agree, it’s a load of nonsense because I just finished dating a policeman and he was just lovely!
Melanie said:
The gap, i believe, is due to the fact that black men do not value marriage as much.
This may not necessarily be the case:
http://ssw.unc.edu/jif/aahmi09/notes/3a.pdf
Dr. Lorraine Blackman said African Americans want the same quality of marriage and relationships as everyone else. She cited a report that Black men value marriage more than women, but only if the marriage can be successful.
well, if marriage is so darn wonderful, then why do some of our peeps not want our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to legally marry? hummm-mm?
I hate showing up at the party late. Youz guys glew this jawn up like Nagasaki, in 24 hours.
Congrats, Shecodes. I hope you and your future husband years of happiness.
I agree wholeheartedly with Melanie and Knockoutchick on the whole concept of black men only to marry superior women. When I first read the article and watch the clip I was suprised. Black women with degrees, good education, and good credit are now considered commodities in the black community. Maybe because of the recession or Michelle Obama. I, myself, have come across many bm who eyes light up when they find out where I live, my education and what I drive.
My concern is focused on the lower income women the Shanique and LaKeisha’s of the the world who are being exploited by black men. I fear the idea of marriage is becoming bleak in the lower socieoeconomic communities. As my black male cousins say, “you don’t wife a hood chick’.
Congrats, Shecodes!
So glad to hear how you have been doing!
RevMamaAfrika wrote:
[ well, if marriage is so darn wonderful, then why do some of our peeps not want our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to legally marry? hummm-mm?
]
Simple. A child raised by a married father and mother is a MUCH higher chance of becoming a compassionate, law-abiding productive human being. Even otherwise pro-gay Democrats like David Blakenhorn increasingly admit this truth:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-blankenhorn19-2008sep19,0,6057126.story
Conversely, many children raised without a father grow up to become barbarians. See various horror stories on WAOD.
In short, marriage is about raising the next generation of responsible citizens who will build up-not tear down-their society.
They did this piece in Atlanta. When did Atlanta become the Holy Land of black people? I have live in Atlanta since 1996 and I would not advise any women of any race, creed, or color to come here in hopes of finding a man. A lot of people in Atlanta don’t have the sense God gave them. It’s equal with both men and women. They all want to live like their in a BET video.
This was in Atlanta?! I must have missed that part. Oh please, girl bye. Next!!!
is it me? why is it in all these discussions about our relationships, the discussion never gets around to discussing in detail, some substance, the increasing lack of affordable housing, un and under employment, lack of affordable health insurance/health care, child care, family history of violence and/or abuse, substance abuse, etc., as all possible reasons why our relationships are not always healthly? Are those type of questions too much to ask? Is that just too much work for some folks? We need to give it all a rest; I agree with some of the others, we discuss this topic way too much, to the extreme detriment of us sisters, especially the young sisters that come after us.
is it me? why is it in all these discussions about our relationships, the discussion never gets around to discussing in detail, some substance, the increasing lack of affordable housing, un and under employment, lack of affordable health insurance/health care, child care, family history of violence and/or abuse, substance abuse, etc., as all possible reasons why our relationships are not always healthly? Are those type of questions too much to ask? Is that just too much work for some folks? We need to give it all a rest; I agree with some of the others, we discuss this topic way too much, to the extreme detriment of us sisters, especially the young sisters that come after us.
Congrats Shecodes
Love and like who you want, but if there is a child involved please put the child first before making any decisions.
….best to take a look at the other end of a person before you accept their advice.
@92 No its not just you. With all the uncertainity in this economy I don’t see how or why anyone is really defining themselves by some corporate job. Just b/c someone is college educated doesn’t mean they have some great career and you know they got are at least 20,000 in debt from student loans and credit card debt.
And I know people who have held off marriage and career plans b/c of career setbacks. Some folks of other races we have gone to school with get assistance from their family members with the first home or car, while many blacks are asked to give to their family members instead.
No one ever talks about the all out assault on the American Dream that generation x and y are facing. Gone are the days of 20 years at a company, gone are the days of paying only 1/3 of your salary on housing.
We don’t know those women in the video, all we know is that they are beautiful and have a good job. We are given no kind of information about their personality or other personal issues they maybe having.
@Nia, There are 28 countries in the Carribbean, and each has its own unique personality.
I didn’t come here to champion the Carribbean as the ONLY or even the first choice for bw, but there most definitely are better pickings than here for those who truly want a commensurate BLACK man.
That’s why I qualified my comment with “educated,” — your description does not ring true for that group in my opinion. Yes, there are plenty of ne’er do wells who want to live off of a woman too — but I would never introduce a professional black woman to some beachcombing, winding hack at a club.
I used to generalize but the numbers don’t lie. I have counted six of our friends who married black women in the past year and a half. If you include my family add another two. All have degrees except one, who is a professional tennis player.
I feel that I have to prove this because whenever a wisp of hope is extended to bw, someone feels it’s their duty to REMIND us that “nope, there’s really nothing out there for you”. It’s a damn lie.
@RevMamaAfrika: (respectfully) instead of scolding everyone on what they should be asking, why don’t you simply ask the questions yourself? It’s easier.
I will say that islands that have more American TV tend to
embrace instead of reject ‘the regime’s’ thinking. I hope that this trend is arrested.
Like I said earlier, I don’t pretend to be a relationship expert so I’ve said all I can say about this.
I’ll finish by saying that I think that bw are WISE to get themselves financially solvent by any means necessary. They are smart to get careers. It’s called survival, and it should not change.
The problem isn’t what we were doing 9-5, it’s what we were allowing people to tell us what to do from 5-11. We have self-segregated into all female circles and quasi harems for unworthy men. This must stop.
@ Sis. Shecodes, I was not scolding anyone here; it was a rhetorical question. My point was simply with the budding cottage industry of “self help for the Black Woman of the New Millenium”, etc., etc., and all that other warfare drivel directed against us, all of us should examine the issues I mentioned, they play a greater role in how and why people make decisions to marry. Why get married if the job market sucks, in spite of having a college degree and tons of experience? Why get marrried if the public schools are not up to par? Why get married if affordable housing is scarce? Why get married if you can afford a half mil for a house but it’s about the size of a basketball court? Why is it we never get around to discussing changing demographics, changing gender roles (which some men and some women find frightening), etc.? Steve Harvey, Hill Harper and a whole slew of other women and men, write books, study guides, produce videos, etc., and lord have mercy these churces and their “married folks conferences”, “singles conferences”, etc., all that to drive increasing social pressure to get married, but very little on how to be happy in your own skin, whether you are single, married, divorced, single parent,etc. The madness must stop because we are indeed making ourselves very unhealthly. Very little of this “get married and be happy” drivel is directed toward men.
And BTW, I have met many brothers from the Caribbean and from Home; I’ve dated brothers from all over the African world. Like anywhere else, some of them were fabulous and some not so fabulous. Sometimes it’s simply a matter of not being compatible; no harm in that, the person is not an enemy. Just move the h— on. Period!
Khadija,
“. The campaign to break professional BW’s spirits is the sum of various regime members’ individual reflex reactions to seeing more BW moving our resources out of their reach.”
Yes, this. And this makes the situation far more threatening: if it were truly a single-source, coordinated effort, it would be easier to denounce. But this is like a series of buckets being spilled to the floor: the increasing frequency, variable source and volume make it so much easier for the negative message to seep in the woodwork.
This isn’t just an attack for BW to see, and I think precious little is put out there to “help” BW find what they want. Some of these stories aren’t geared to BW at all, but are being packaged for “mainstream” consumption.
This goes beyond entertainment: it’s an air and ground level creation of a vocabulary that effectively frames BW as failures in a stereotypically female and Black way.
Successful BW tended not to be perceived as emasculating in the way WW were – emasculating behavior was a socioeconomic class indicator, and we tend to treat the poor unkindly. But we love the bootstraps stories, and to combine that with the favor given to young woman (because success tracks with education, and that is generally a late teens-early 20’s span of life) gave the professional BW a generally positive social reading. Clair Huxtable was adored in a way a (fictional, pre-presidency) Hillary Clinton was not.
As this new framing takes hold, successful BW will be read by others as fundamentally flawed within their femininity – for reasons that don’t relate to the stereotypical markers of femininity. It’s not that the women are considered masculine, or unwilling, and that’s even more of a dangerous tactic: the idea being that if you’re young, beautiful, the flower of BW and you still can’t find the love you want, then there’s something intrinsically wrong w/you, as a “class.”
It’s textbook “othering”. The mainstream sources aren’t touting the alternative version of Black femininity as an option in a way that happens for WW: there’s not the mommy war thing happening where the alternative to being lovely and successful outside of the home is being lovely and successful w/in it – the point is the men aren’t there. And it’s not the beautiful lawyer vs. the beautiful video vixen: the latter forms of femininity are desirable, not not considered to be as respectable.
And if it’s a class perception, not an individual one, then it doesn’t really matter what the object of that perception wants to marry at all. It is all about control of resources, and social perception/clout is a major resource for professional BW. It’s a primary tool that one uses to navigate their territory.
Because it is a way to control resources, I don’t expect to see any of the possible solutions to this phenomenon, either on individual action or to find spouses. This isn’t about helping us win. It’s piecemeal gerrymandering, to ensure we don’t align ourselves with power structures related to our Blackness, our gender, or our successes. Yes, there are people who don’t want to, but it’s better to not want to and abstain, than to need to access power and find you’re on a completely different rail line.
The apparent trajectory of this stereotype: confusion, assessment, then either pity leading to joke, or threat leading to ostracization. My prediction: the sassy BW sidekick, dispensing homegrown advice to assist the “real lady” protagonist is going to be replaced. Bad case: the new Black spinster, unappealing in some vague way. Worse case: success = emasculation of all men, not just BM.
This whole thing is toxic, period. But it’s working, because I think the natural focus (of the people who are spreading the message) is on how or if to marry. But it’s really not about that at all. The marriage part is just the flavor of the day – the issue is that BW are being used as stepping stones to advance the message-bringer’s interests. So the lack of unified coordination isn’t something to feel good about, it’s just a reflection that the professional BW is being turned into low-hanging fruit.
I said:
“And it’s not the beautiful lawyer vs. the beautiful video vixen: the latter forms of femininity are desirable, not not considered to be as respectable.”
and it should read “but not”
What a shame to see such accomplished, lovely young women struggling to find a husband. I continually just don’t understand the limitation to Black men for husband choices, though. It boggles my mind.
Although, the one young lady did mention that the white guys don’t “follow up” after an introduction. I’ve been out of the “market” WAYYY too long to know if this is true or not.
Shell:
“My concern is focused on the lower income women the Shanique and LaKeisha’s of the the world who are being exploited by black men.”
An easy way to exploit women is to devalue them so much that they devalue themselves and feel like a bad option is better than nothing at all. What’s happening is that women are being taught to devalue themselves by setting up a series of contradictory, but negative outcomes.
They’re being told that there’s no safe refuge for any facet of self expression. So being poor is not desirable (who wants that?) but being well-off is selling out, and therefore bad. Being uneducated is bad, but being educated is also bad. Being valued for your sexuality is wrong, but not displaying that is also wrong. If, no matter where you turn, you’re making a bad decision, then what can you do?
Easy: you let other people tell you what to do. You let the person being nice to you, right this instant, tell you how to act and how to live. An attack on Clair has fallout effects for Shanique – it’s about power, self-determination and access to resources, and it’s using the woman’s own desire to belong as a lever to realign her efforts away from her own interests (whatever they are.)
Tertiaryanna,
As you noted, this isn’t solely about destroying BW’s images of themselves. It’s about a lot of things, including shaping nonblacks’ perceptions of BW. Various regime members have various motives.
Again, much of this revolves around access to resources: (1) Regime members want to continue having direct, unfettered access to the resources controlled by BW; AND
(2) regime members want to block BW from having indirect access by marriage to the even greater pool of resources controlled by the men (WM) who control various economic sectors in this country.
The regime is not stupid. Overall, it can see that unless it acts quickly to undermine BW’s spirits, AND undermine our image to the outer world—then more African-American women are going to start doing what Asian women are doing. Which consists of making critical life choices, such as marriage, based on what works best for them as individuals. Without any other considerations (such as “nothing but a brotha,” or “I’ve got to save alla my people,” etc.) coming into play.
There are a lot of folks who don’t want to see large numbers of BW joining the already large numbers of Asian women in “poaching” functional and successful WM as husbands.
WW don’t want to see this happen. Large numbers of BM don’t want to see this happen. For a variety of reasons. I’ll just mention one subsection of BM regime members who don’t want to see this happen.
A number of the BM regime members (such as the BM comedians who went out of their way to publicly validate Don Imus’ slur against a group of BW) view themselves as rivals with BW for White affection, and access to White resources.
BM like the buffoons who joined in with Don Imus know that they are not going to be able to compete with WM (and other men) by building institutions of their own. Since they aren’t going to build any economic instutions of their own, they have to try to bond with the WM who control practically all of the places where they (and most other Black folks) get their paychecks from.
Unlike women, those BM who view themselves as competing for White acceptance can’t bond with these WM through romantic or marriage relationships with them. So, they figure that they’ll bond with these WM over misogyny. And, since it’s not safe to publicly step on WW (Dave Letterman and Kanye West found out about that), the only “acceptable” women to degrade for this purpose are BW.
The WM Don Imus types enjoy this, for obvious reasons. Many WW are also okay with this, because this helps to remove BW in large numbers as serious competition for access to the resources controlled by WM. WW don’t want to see large numbers of BW start doing what Asian women are doing.
As you noted, the constant drumbeat of these images isn’t just for BW’s consumption. Many regime members are heavily invested in lowering nonblack folks’ perceptions of professional BW.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Oh Reese, I could not have said it better. Thank you.
“Why do BW keep trying to prove that they are worthy of marriage when it is obvious that the men they are seeking DO NOT THINK THEY ARE WORTHY?”
Khadija,
I agree, and I especially like your point here:
So, they figure that they’ll bond with these WM over misogyny.”
I think that this collaboration is going to be the next direct assault: the tools of WM sexism powered by the ethos of BM sexism.
I’m curious if there are any BF bloggers that collaborate w/AM on similar issues about stereotypes and datability. I think that they (AM) may have a similar story to tell as BF, especially in light of their social advancements, the numbers of AM compared to AF and the rates of AF marrying out despite shared economic/class matches with each other.
@#101,
Wanda, did it ever occur to you that some black people want black families and black children? Is that so odd to you? If so, I am the one who has been out of the loop to long and not you.
Sis. Khadija, your analysis was just tight!!!!!
Funny thing, back in the day, the 1960s, 1970s and part of the 1980s, some of the brothers would (falsely) accuse sisters of aligning themselves “wid da wite man” against the brothers, against the community whenever they, the sisters, raised questions, had a different opinion, asked questions about sexism, violence against women, etc. Of course, this was the tactic of some brothers to attack any semblance of feminism on the part of sisters (and even some brothers.) Now we know, as your analysis just pointed out, in actually, some of our “brothers” have made conscious or unconscious decisions to align themselves with power to advance themselves, against the best interests of all of our people. So this now explains why Steve Harvey, Hill Harper, etc., can write books about relationships without being a trained counselor and no one calls them out on it. Where are all of our trained, experienced relationship experts?
Tertiaryanna,
You said, “I’m curious if there are any BF bloggers that collaborate w/AM on similar issues about stereotypes and datability. I think that they (AM) may have a similar story to tell as BF, especially in light of their social advancements, the numbers of AM compared to AF and the rates of AF marrying out despite shared economic/class matches with each other.”
I’ll be surprised if there’s any such collaboration going on. After all, what’s in it for AM to link any of their dating concerns to BW’s concerns? Nothing, as far as I can tell. Whatever AM feel are the issues between themselves and AW, these men have nothing to gain by publicly identifying (in any way) with ANY Black problem. I would imagine that many AM would be able to simply get a poorer woman from the “home country” if they feel shut out by Asian-American women.
I’ve long since dropped the coalition concept. The harsh reality is that nobody has anything to gain by publicly aligning themselves with Black problems of any kind.
Now, nonblacks will use Black folks’ knee-jerk “Kumbaya, my lord” reactions to their advantage—when they want something from Blacks. [Similarly to how some of these folks---many Arabs, Latinos----only refer to themselves as "people of color" when they want something from Blacks; but otherwise, they are heavily invested in self-identifying as "White."] But they have no rational reason to lower their public profile by publicly identifying their concerns with Black concerns.
______________________
RevMamaAfrika,
Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. I’m just repeating what wiser BW have suggested when analyzing a situation: “Follow the resource trail.”
Oh yeah, many so-called brothers LIED. About many things, including their true motives. At this late date, the last bit of cover for these lies has been blown.
You said, “So this now explains why Steve Harvey, Hill Harper, etc., can write books about relationships without being a trained counselor and no one calls them out on it. Where are all of our trained, experienced relationship experts?”
I wonder how many AAs would listen to trained, experienced relationship experts at this point. It seems to me that many of us prefer to take advice from unqualified people (especially from celebrities) at this point in time. AAs respond to prominence (presence on tv), not skill or qualifications. [It reminds me of how the NAACP Image Awards seems to give awards to whatever Black persons are on tv a lot at the moment. Note that these are not "achievement" awards, but "image" awards---folks tell on themselves and reveal their mindsets.]
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Al righty and with that, we close the comments on this thread. Up next Part II in the War on Professional Black Women. Lists Lists Lists!