You need to brace yourselves, criminal rights activists and coddlers are going to be using the Dunbar Village predators as poster children for the a movement that says the violent amoral predatory teens should be allowed to rape torture and otherwise brutalize the old, the young, and the female and roam free on account of their age.
Lawyers to rapists Nathniel Walker and Jakaris Taylor have indicating their intention to appeal based on an argument that these violent gang rapist torturers are “just kids”:
Mirroring arguments raised by those involved in the Supreme Court case, Taylor’s attorney, Chris Haddad, points out what anyone who has raised kids knows: They think differently from adults. Haddad said he plans to call a mental health expert to explain why. Palm Beach Post
Well great, why don’t you take these violent predators home with you and YOUR family to figure out what they think.
In sentencing the oldest rapists to jail, Judge Krista Marx noted:
“What distinguishes these series of crimes from the mere impulsiveness of youth is the duration of the criminal episode and the character of the conduct individually and collectively …
” The criminal episode was reflective of thought and deliberation. The totality of its duration and character of horror was contrived by evil and consummated by young criminals, not merely impulsive young men. Palm Beach Post”
This wasn’t an act of youthful indiscretion. They plotted, the stalked, they tortured and THEY ENJOYED IT! The prison system is wholly and completely incapable of reforming sexual predators, the safest place for them is HELL the second best option is jail for the rest of their lives.
Current residents agree with me:
I wish they could get the death penalty,” Christian said of the three teenagers who will be sentenced today and others suspected in the June 2007 gang rape of a woman forced to have sex with her son. “That woman and her son will be marked for the rest of their lives.” Palm Beach Post
The coddlers want these predators to roam free so vulnerable women and children and elderly people can live under violent tyrannical regimes of roving gangs:
And she refuses to keep her door open like many of her neighbors.
“Otherwise when guys are sprinting from the police they’ll run into your apartment, point a gun at you and tell you to ’shut the (expletive) up,”” she said, matter-of-factly.
Just in case, there’s the baseball-bat size behind her front door.
“This is thick. It can do some damage,” Christian said. “Almost everyone keeps some kind of weapon behind both their front and back doors.”
Ain’t that some mess. I say living in a world where you can’t escape sweltering heat because of roving gangs of thugs is cruel and unusual punishment. Where is this woman’s lawyer?
I love the Constitution. I’ve taken several oaths to uphold it, and I am fairly certain that the founding fathers didn’t have any hesitation about the state carrying out executions for these rapists so life in prison is more than fair. Need I remind you that the rapists friends and relative laughed at the victim during sentencing? Who’s supposedly left to do any reforming?
22 comments ↓
I’m speechless. Just speechless.
Please, folks in Florida ain’t trying to hear that psychology mumbo jumbo .
Isn’t it a shame, in this country right now, there is no civil rights/human rights organization that focuses solely on violence against Black women and girls!
OH MY HOW FAR WE SLAVES HAVE COME!
Well it’s not a matte of “coddlers.”
I don’t beleive in trying kids as adults regardless of the crime. You either have a juvenile justice system or you don’t.
You shouldn’t be able to pick and choose which cimes count as “adult” and which ones don’t.
And contrary to what folk think juveniles who commit horrible crimes can be rehabilitated. Plenty have studies have proven that. The will has to be there to make it happen.
And since most people who are locked up will get out I much rather the work be done to make sure they are reformed productive citizens than better criminals and brutalizers upon release.
@ JJ, well for many, many years I was a strong supporter of fundamental changes in the juvenile justice system. Indeed, some young people do go to jail that are totally innocent, some commit a misdeanor and get felony time, etc. I get all that. I even have friends who work in this field, I respect them and the work they do.
Up until the summer of 2007, I would have never considered giving a juvenile life in prison for a non-homicide crime. THEN DUNBAR VILLAGE HAPPENED AND CHANGED EVERYTHING. Now I’m very careful even around the 12 year old looking boys in my neighborhood; the sexually violent language they say sometimes is amazingly crazy. I realize that only a racist, sexist, capitalist society can make horrorific criminals as we have seen for the past 10 to 15 years, but in some cases, even the sexual assault criminals are getting younger and younger. Right now, I can forgive a murderer quicker than a rapist; for what those teenagers did, OVER THE COURSE OF SEVERAL HOURS, what do you do with them if they get out in 5, 10 or 15 years? AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MOTHER AND HER SON? Or do they now not matter?
R. Kelly is illiterate, yet is “writing” a book, Mike Tyson continues to have some sort of boxing career AND keeps meeting women/having children, a “brother” in the city where I live is a serial woman beater yet still has a radio show, etc., just WTH are we as a people doing?
JJ – Uhhhh….. No. No. and Hell. No.
Gina – I have some information re: Shaniya Davis. Please contact me if you’d like it because I can’t find a contact form for this website at all.
I am with Mama on this, peace and blessing sister, a lot of pain goes into this kind of forced rethinking.
What is wrong with this country when we think we have to choose between incarceration for a crime and rehabilitation of criminals ? We should be doing both. As for what happened in Dunbar Village, it was a heinous crime and there should be severe consequences. I grew up in that community, all our neglect and faltering as a community created the environment where children become so lost that they totally abandon their own humanity.
Oh, and Gina thank you so much for what you do. I am a regular reader and often promote this blog.
JJ, no one is rehabilitated when they come out of prison, no one. There is no rehabilitation going on. Besides, when released the people who did this to this woman and her child are going to go back to the same enviornment that they come from.
I’m all for rehabilitaion but you haft to rehabilitate these communiteis that these kind of people come from. What’s the point of rehabilitating criminals if the place which they come from remains the same?
@Hp
No one is rehabilitated when they come out of prison b/c our system isn’t set up for that.
Yet I repeat – most people who get locked up get out. This is why it is extra important that when it comes to non-violent crimes those folk are steered away from prison.
When it comes to juveniles I don’t beleive you get locked up for life for something you did at 14. Regardless of the nature of the crime.
MOST youth can be rehabilitated if the focus of their incarceration is on rehabilitation and not just throwing away the key.
If the feeling is there shouldn’t be a juvenile system then when a 10 year old is caught stealing you should treat him/her you would any thief regardless of age.
14 and 20 year olds are not the same. There are no adult crimes. Kids do horrible things, but they are still kids with kid mentalities and kid motivations.
Like I said either have a juvenile justice system or not, but you shouldn’t be able to straddle the fence on this.
We have gotten to the place where behaviors that are clearly sociopathic are being described as ‘youthful’. A sociopath, by definition, can not be rehabilitated. Therefore, you must first figure out what you are working with, regardless of age.
Have the youths shown remorse, responsibility? DESIRE TO CHANGE? It is 100% impossible to rehabilitate anyone who does not want to change.
Additionally, what is suddenly wrong with the concept of punishment? I am fine with rehabilitation, but forgiveness and rehabilitation are not the same thing.
A gun in the hand of a 12 year old kills you just as dead. We have had an explosion of serious crimes by younger and younger people, mostly because we refuse to believe that they really intend to do harm.
14 and 20 year olds are definitely not the same. However, if the crime is the same, the price should be the same also.
@Shecodes
I don’t know whether they are sociopaths are not. Unless you know something I don’t, i don’t beleive any of the defendants have been classified as such.
14 and 20 year olds are definitely not the same. However, if the crime is the same, the price should be the same also.
My point exactly. A ten year old knows stealing a car is wrong…as does a 20 year old. So if the 20 year old gets hard time for the car so should the 10 year old.
Once again either you have a juvenile justice system or you don’t…personally i feel you should…we don’t let 14 year olds drive, marry, drink or enter into contracts on their own ’cause we recognize they are CHILDREN and as such aren’t capable of making informed decisions in the same manner as adults.
Hell we argue that 15 year olds can’t enter into sexual relationships with adults, but we’re going to argue that 14 years who commit heinous crimes should be treated as adults.
You can’t have it both ways. Either they are children or they are adults. If they are adults then everything from stealing to murder and yes sex is a free for all.
There shouldn’t be limitations and we should just go back to a time when the “teenager” didn’t exist. Once you reached puberty you were considered an adult. My great grandmother was married at 13 at the turn of the last century…quite common back then…unheard of today.
You don’t get to cherry pick who’s a child and who isn’t. Either they are children or they are not…it’s not either or.
Well release them in an affluent white neighborhood….they won’t last very long there.
@jj OH PLUUUUEEZ. Its called discretion and we use it everyday. Its also called “the criminal mind” or mens rea. A 10 year old’s level of wisdom is completely different than a 20 year old. Toddlers pull dog’s tails all the time, if a fully grown man did that, we’d throw him in jail for animal cruelty. Sure the toddler knows the dog doesn’t like it, but it cannot fully appreciate the consequences. Ain’t no way in heck these little monsters didn’t appreciate the gravity of what they were doing.
“In criminal law, mens rea – the Latin term for “guilty mind”[1] – is usually one of the necessary elements of a crime. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means “the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind be also guilty”. Thus, in jurisdictions with due process, there must be an actus reus accompanied by some level of mens rea to constitute the crime with which the defendant is charged (see the technical requirement of concurrence). The Criminal Law does not usually apply to a person who has acted with the absence of mental fault; this is the general rule.”
It means the courts determine the mindset of the person committing the crime when charging, convicting and sentencing. It happens everyday. We make distinctions between criminally negligent homicide and capital murder.
This artificial arbitrary line you think exists is an illusion. So is the concept that the role of prison is rehabilitation. Vengeance and punishment are both legitimate functions for the state. If the government didn’t carry out the acts after a trial, relatives and vigilantes would do the job instead. Sending people to prison for life is a legitimate means of maintaining civil order by establishing the government as the sole entitiy with authority to restrain people.
Hey, I’m all for removing age restrictions in cases of murder, rape and serious assaults. If you do adult crimes with the requisite mental state then do adult time. For once we finally agree.
Sorry…but I don’t trust the “discretion” of the state or those people used to decide the fate of those being punished (juries).
I like hard lines. When you don’t have them then you get 12 year olds being charged as adults. I suppose the 8 and 9 year olds who were involved in the sexual assault of the 8 year old girl should be tried as adults as well?
Either children are children or they are not. That is not an illusion. That is where I draw my line and choose to use my discretion.
This artificial arbitrary line you think exists is an illusion. So is the concept that the role of prison is rehabilitation. Vengeance and punishment are both legitimate functions for the state
Well that’s where we disagree…Vengeance should not be a legitimate function of the state and since the overwhelming majority of those who get locked up get out then I think rehabilitation need to be more the function of the state than not.
As well as having other ways of dealing with non-violent criminals than prison – as previuosly mentioned.
. If the government didn’t carry out the acts after a trial, relatives and vigilantes would do the job instead
Maybe maybe not – but just because laypeople would do it it doesn’t mean the government should sanction it.
A crime is a crime. Why are you drawing the line at violent crimes. I’m sure the guy who gets his car stolen doesn’t want to hear “Oh but he’s a child.” It’s arbitrary.
And i don’t think it should be.
JJ, sorry, but I think you’re deluding yourself. Your sympathies are misplaced. Wait until the victims of these crimes are you and yours. This kind of criminal behavior is now rife in black environments, and the prescription you offer would only worsen the situation. There MUST always be accountability. Do the crime, do the time. It’s one thing to commit a “youthful” indiscretion. Rape, sodomy, forcing a mother and son to have sex with each other, holding a gun on them and otherwise terrorizing them, then pouring bleach on them to try to destroy DNA and other evidence, and doing this for over 3 hours, does not constitute an indiscretion or youthful behavior. This is a bold-faced, evil, premeditated, vicious, filthy, immoral CRIME and must be punished to the nth degree. And society needs protection from these people who behave in a manner in which wild animals would not even deign to act (animals have more dignity than this). Justice for the victims and protection of society from this heinous behavior must be the primary considerations here. And if they’re old enough to know how to rape and to do it, to know to carry a gun to force the victims to follow their orders, to use bleach to try to cover their evidence tracks, means they are old enough to appreciate the wrongfulness of their behavior. Ask them if they would have wanted other young men to do what they did to their mothers, sisters, etc. I have no doubt that their answer would be a resounding “no”. And as SheCodes has pointed out, the only remorse these boys have shown is in getting caught and punished. They show no sympathy for being the cause of the ruin of this young mother and son, perhaps forever. No – I am not wasting tears for these young men. They knew better, and had the free will to make a choice to do better. Instead they chose to commit a heinous act. Now let them pay the price. The young boy they attacked does not get to forget the crime committed against him when he turns 18. The young mother does not get to leave this ugly past behind in a couple of years when these brutes turn 18. JJ, you give no thought to the punishment that this mother and her son must endure for the rest of their lives. You’re focused on not punishing these criminals. I will only worry about these criminals if and when they get out of jail. And thankfully they will have to register as sex offenders wherever they go.
@Sandra
1. I Have no sympathy for those who are locked up.
2. Victims can still have justice and society can still be protected if they are tried as juveniles.
3. Letting them out at 18 or 40 doesn’t matter if all that happens is they are locked up brutalized and released.
Society is once again in danger…
4. I’m for comprehensive counseling, rehabilitation and education of juvenile offenders (85% of juvenile criminals are illiterate), for horrible crimes held ’till their 21 and put on a minimum of 10 years probation.
If we chose to care it could be done. We choose not to. That attitude doesn’t benefit anyone least of all the victims as MOST people who are locked up (even for violent crimes) will be let out.
Who else has to be harmed upon their release b/c all we care about is vengeance?
When will these “youthful” predators start getting out? I assume that none of them got life, so in a way JJ is correct that something must be done (or attempted) since these demons will eventually all be back out on the streets.
If they could have been given the death penalty for their vicious crime, that would have been perfect and justified.
@ JJ, I don’t know what’s scarier, the crimes against humanity that the teens did or your comments where you do not mention the mother and son and their continued suffering. Can the teens live next door to you and your children when/if they get out? NOT!
JJ, they did all this over the course of several hours! The poured chemicals to destroy evidence! JJ, the mother did not know she had a bar of soap in her vagina until the nurse removed it and placed it in the evidence bag! This was horrendous! This is one time in my life where I say, I demand they give them LIFE IN PRISON! And I’ll be nice, you can visit them on visiting day!
The system is too broken and incompetent for rehabiliation. The Phill Garridos and the scavenger in Cleveland that kill the 11 BW has proven that, for goodness sake the POs were visiting their homes and over looked the dead bodies or kidnapped girl in the backyard.
These criminals are a danger to the public safety. Just look at the family, laughing at the victims during sentencing. There is a dysfunctional genetic pattern going on with all of them.
JJ I’ll be lenient for you, give them 50-60 years TIME SERVED w/o parole. At least when they get out they’ll be too old to procreate, too beaten down by the other inmates(hopefully it’ll be some Haitian gang retaliating), and to useless to do anything but to think about their consequences.
wow..
i am all for changing the way the prison industrial complex HOWEVER, there are some people who just can’t be fixed.
This was a deliberate plan and an extreme form of torture performed on that woman and her child. To make matters worse, some of the other perpetrators are still at large and it is obvious that those convicted of those crimes have been NO HELP in catching the other ones. So if anything, maybe jail will help them rethink their lack of cooperation .
@ JJ stupid comments, and probably the dumbest I’ve ever heard. The argument shouldn’t be rehabilitation before they come out, it should be NOT LETTING THEM OUT. Do you really think that rehabilitation IN WHATEVER FORM YOU’RE REFERRING TO will help these young men in the slightest? PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY THIS REHABILITATION. If that woman and her son had anything to do with you, then your whole argument on juvenile sentencing verses adult sentencing for these young men would be out the window in a heartbeat. We live in this world, maybe by ourselves and we probably care only about ourselves, but a little empathy goes a long way. You don’t have to be educated, kind, a woman, an wealthy individual or a SAINT to have some empathy, it is absolutely human (unless if you have autism) There is no excuse for what these people did to this woman and her son NONE WHATSOEVER! And for the people argued that they are still babies/young/don’t know the extent, bet you’d never trust them around your daughters.