We’ve been having some really really good discussions since I came back from my two week blogcation. I guess that’s a sign to keep on going as we near out 2-Year Anniversary!
To all the Tyler Perry fans, just skip this post and go hang out over at tylerperryfans.com. Some people have figured out that Tyler Perry really isn’t the point of this series of posts. One person figured out that the oft-maligned Madea is the least of your worries. The real threat is the constant theme of professional Black women (and some men) being the scourge of the Black community.
Its bigger than Perry. Its the sentiment that he taps into that ought to scare the heck out of you.
[W]hat I consider a problem with TP is his constant theme of putting professional Black women “in their place”. In every movie I’ve ever seen of his, there is always something wrong with the professional Black woman - she’s either desperate and loveless with her dildo at the ready, used and abused and in need of saving, evil and conniving, or harsh and unforgiving – all stereotypes being used to discourage any young Black girl watching from wanting to ever become an educated, successful Black woman. With images like that, would you? And to also make Black men and boys utterly hate-on, roll their eyes at, or generally devalue and not accept any Black woman of class, success and education. Believe me, the effects are seen even on college campuses, such as Howard University. I had several HU roommates and a sister who went to HU, and it was common and expected for many of the Black girls there to “dumb down”, play coy, and be seen as “real” or “down” (read don’t look too smart or professional or threatening to Black men or like you may work at a corporation in the future). It’s sad really, and as this blog has pointed out at times, dangerous too.
Just a few decades ago, a similar mindset against professional, educated people struck Cambodia in the form of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. They cultivated an attitude so strongly against education and educated people that they killed millions of their own, for “insults” as simple as wearing eye glasses and looking too intelligent! The result is that they completely decimated their own country, and left it grossly impoverished, backwards, hopeless, and uneducated to this day, as well as killed whole generations of people who had the means to make Cambodia the next Japan.
Right now there is a UN War Crimes Tribunal going on related to the Cambodia genocide:
Cambodia Genocide (Pol Pot) – 1975-1979 – 2,000,000 Deaths
An attempt by Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot to form a Communist peasant farming society resulted in the deaths of 25 percent of the country’s population from starvation, overwork and executions.Throughout Cambodia, deadly purges were conducted to eliminate remnants of the “old society” – the educated, the wealthy, Buddhist monks, police, doctors, lawyers, teachers, and former government officials. Ex-soldiers were killed along with their wives and children. Anyone suspected of disloyalty to Pol Pot, including eventually many Khmer Rouge leaders, was shot or bludgeoned with an ax. “What is rotten must be removed,” a Khmer Rouge slogan proclaimed. United Human Rights.
They always go after the professionals and skilled trades people first. But then I could run movie reels all day long of the Killing Fields and some of you would say “No big deal!” Great discussion.
61 comments ↓
GEM, I love your blog and your advocacy for black women and girls. Unfortunately, I think you’ve gone off the deep end with this one. Can you say honestly say that educated black people are the scour of the community when Barack and Michelle have been damn near deified by the black masses?
This post is so on point. I have been bemoaning TP’s attack on professional Black women, but no one seemed to understand my point.
I am trained as a chemist, with 2 degrees, and you would not believe the experiences I have with men. Even with other “educated” men, I find them to be bewildered and shocked when I have an intelligent comment or remark about something I’ve done in the lab. Its almost as if they forget that I have a brain. Sadly, I have friends who are computer scientists, pharmacists, and engineers who have had similar experiences. I boggles my mind.
I’m glad it’s spring break and I have time to read blogs!
I don’t know that all of the Black masses have deified the Obamas–I’ve heard too many ministers (including Jeremiah Wright, btw) say “Barack ain’t Jesus!!” Or, “y’all better get ‘yoselves’ together ’cause Barack ain’t gonna save you.”
The analogy with what happened in Cambodia is right on, 100%. Not only was the creative/intellectual class practically wiped out, but that destruction set the country back at least fifty or seventy-five years.
At least in Cambodia, they had to kill the thinkers and builders. Here, we just mock them and it’s enough to make them silent. If you don’t think so, ask a student in a traditional school to name the leaders of our intellectual/creative class.
If Barrack Obama was truly being deified by the masses of black America, then I would have expected to at least see the beginnings of certain positive changes by now, and I have not. I don’t see violent crime going down as more black men strive to be more like Barack. I don’t see black men getting set to pursue higher education in greater numbers. I haven’t heard rap musicians decide to clean up their act in honor of the First Lady. I haven’t heard black people talking about the need to respect and protect black women and children in honor of the Obamas. I don’t see any change (other than for the worse) in black America since the Obamas came on the scene. The only changes I have seen are (1) more black women deluding themselves about the future of “black love” and believing that their IBM like Barrack is just around the corner and (2) more black men thinking that the world is their oyster now that Barrack Obama is President and they can do what they like (lots of freedom without concurrent responsibility or sacrifice) and Barrack will somehow magically “fix” things for them. If that’s how black America honors and “deifies” Barrack and Michelle Obama, then I shudder to think what would happen if they ever fell from those good graces.
Blacks have been ridiculing each other for decades for being too educated (talking white, liking non-rap music). It has now gone global. This is a societal problem.
The media simply capitalized on the fact that americans were getting dumber.
Too many people just don’t get it. It’s bigger than the Obama’s. They are not the norm or the majority, unfortunately.
Personally, I like the idea of TP fans going to his fan website…lol
I just don’t get it. Why so many people advocate for him, most don’t know him personally; don’t receive any kick back from his media profits and too many aren’t trying to change these negative stereotypes about Black women in their own ways.
I can look to my own family and see how the anger towards the older black women in my family who were successful just grew and grew.
The men in my family who are of my mothers generation…now in their 50s and 60s did not go to college or seek higher education…yet the women did.
Initially in the 1970s and early 80’s, those men were able to find manual work that paid quite well.
So I would constantly hear my uncle berate and belittle my mother about “having that piece of paper that don’t mean nothing”….because he could get paid more as a cop or a fireman than he felt she would ever make.
My uncle would walk around proudly touting his hourly wage and mocking my mother and aunts for the years they spent working and going to school nights to attain degrees. He felt the “white man” would never “allow” a black to have a respectable position.
On the other hand at this time my mother and aunts were facing a great deal of discrimination at work. There were larger and larger numbers of educated women of all races entering the work force at that time and women faced difficult times. The pain they had at being passed over for promotions, made to do the thank-less tasks no one else wanted, working 12 hour days and so on is what paved the way for my generation of women to have an easier time in the Corporate world.
Then somewhere around the late 80s early 90s it started getting harder and harder to find good liveable wages as a manual laborer or in the service industry. My uncle and his peers seemed to have less and less work.
Until finally my uncle was the only one working of ALL his black male peers and that is because he had a union job.
At the same point in the mid 90s or so my mother and her other peers started to see more flexibilty in their careers, some got promotions and some actually got those salaries that they dreamed of back in the 70s.
Then my mother and her peers were all making much more money than my uncle and his peers. At this time my mother, aunts and other women all owned property while my uncle and his peers did not.
This is when the “Y’all think you are better” comments started and of course escalalted to insults and name calling which never ending. Not ONCE in my life did I ever hear my mother, aunt or any female relative make a disparaging comment about my uncle and his ability to find work. NEVER! He always dominated the room when he spoke and the women listened.
That same kind of anger I see underlying in TP’s representations of the professional BW.
“When you begin to consume your own, you’re done”
Hey gem2001! I want my props for that!
Give some love ta the “whiteyman enemy” for dreamin’ that statement up!
LOL.
I honestly mean that in good fun. Seriously, I do. No evil side agenda at all.
And I understand exactly what you’re saying, why you’re saying it and pretty much agree.
Something occurred to me about the whole “divestment, fleeing, leaving” concept while on my daily run yesterday (my meditative moments, lol). But it’s off topic here, so I’ll save it.
@monica
No, I haven’t lost my mind or gone off the deep end. Its amazing how often Black women pointing out the obvious get labeled “crazy.’
Anywho… Monica, you clearly don’t know your Obama history. No, Obama history did not begin on the night he won the Iowa primary. To hear folks tell it Black folks have always been enraptured with Barack Obama. Hogwash!
If you knew your Barack Obama history, you would know that Barack and Michelle Obama are the POSTER children for the anti-Black-professional mentality I mentioned in the post.
You see before Barack ran for Senate, he ran for Congress against Bobby Rush, the Black Panther. Now if you know anything about that race, what they said about Barack Obama as a professional Black man was far worse than anything Tyler Perry could come up with.
Obama lost because he was too “professional.’ Black people in Chicago BURIED Barack Obama politically.
It was progressive White folks in a newly redrawn district that sent him to the State Senate, thus resurrecting Barack Obama’s political career. Had he stayed and tried to toil it out and wait his turn with Black folks, you wouldn’t even know his name. Which is a blessing in disguise because he isn’t beholden to the CRIC for anything. If you don’t thank Obama for anything, thank him for kneecapping the CRIC.
So where did all this grouddswell of support come from?
In the same way some Black folks are obsessed with celebrity and fame, they chose to look BEYOND his Harvard background if that meant a Black person got into the White House. He got their support IN SPITE of his education, not BECAUSE of his education.
And if First Lady Michelle Obama had been from “Sag Harbor” instead of “The South Side” then what would people have said then?
In fact, I would be interested to see what the masses had to say when The First Lady was working for the University of Chicago doing community relations. I would like to know what the masses would have had to say about the weeMichelles going to private school.
I already know what some ignorant people had to say about them being fans of the Jonas Brothers.
The same thing happened to Corey Booker in Newark.
In a sane world we would elect the professional, the highly qualified, but no, we elect folks because their Mama is a congresswoman or because their daddy is a preacher or because they were in the general vicinity of a march lead by MLK.
You think Obama pulls out that accent or Michelle constantly had to remind folks that she was from “the South Side” because the Black masses embrace Ivy League educated Black folks?
NO, they did it to say “yes, we got degrees and are Black professionals, but we are still DOWN!”
Its ridiculous that they have to bother, but they do.
So no, Monica, I am not crazy. Yes, the analogy is ridiculously accurate!
@KnockoutChick,
In reading your post, I started to see a whole host of issues that may have contributed to the disdain the men in your fam had for the women.
I’m also noting that the vitriol seemed to become more toxic as feminism became popular and more mainstream. Very interesting. It seems there was an intersection of race and sex in that timeline.
In reading about the lack of intellectualism and the disdain for intellectuals in AfAm communities and globally (even the Brits are concerned) it would seem that even greater than the fact that the MSM and big business are tapping into that is the fact that they even have the ability to gain that stronghold; that ability to actually affect people when it is patently clear that it’s incorrect or misrepresented.
@ Seattle Slim
Yes, I think one of the reasons men in general have such issue with feminism is that equal education and equal opportunity has given women access to jobs that had been traditionally held by men, so women no longer have to count on men for financial security.
I think a big question in modern society for men in general…but particularly BM is how does a man define himself or his masculinity?
@Knockout Chick,
I agree. But after some recent reading about feminism, I think it’s important to distinguish between women’s lib and feminism a bit. I think feminism picked up where women’s lib stopped but took it to another level. Some have and will argue that it went a little too far. I think that there were already issues between BM and BW as you showed in your post, but when women’s lib challenged some BM, feminism came and put men in a headlock to an extent lol.
From what I’ve seen it appears as though some BM define their masculinity in how many women they can amass and how much power they can exert over all of those women. It is also measured in how much attention they get in pop culture. Right now, it’s a lot.
@ Seattle Slim
Since the majority of BM are not succeeding academically we see professionals demonized or ridiculed in popular black culture. The authentic BM or the BM hero is always portrayed as working class in TP films as this plays to the masses of BP.
I would have to think more about your comments about the differences between Women’s Lib and feminism. Maybe your are referring to radical feminism….not sure…
YEAH! I am so happy that other people get the danger that Tyler Perry and his followers pose.
And as far as the black male hero in black films is concerned, I think it is not only a reflection of fewer black men becoming professionals but also fewer black professional men having relationships with black women. In order for these “love” stories to be somewhat believable, the black female can only really be involved with a blue collar brother. Whether she be blue collar herself or professional – her only options are blue collar men. This is the reality for black women in the real world too which is why it plays so well in films.
Gem2001,
You got me hooked now!
I should be finishing the work here, but after your rather pointed comments about “misdirecting” the conversation, I thought I’d “lurk” a bit and count how many comments it would take this time.
10!!!
That’s a nice number.
Now the convo can go down a completely different path.
LOL.
Knockout,
I would be talking about radical feminism. But also, I think there is a distinction to be drawn between women’s lib and feminism. I think for a long time they kind of got put in the same hat, when they were different.
And exactly right about your synopsis of the films and the targets. My stance is a personal one, as I tend to watch people and others. I believe that in order to form a formidable attack, we must launch a resistance by encouraging BM and BW to seek, and therefore praise, higher education and scholarship. With the masses getting educated, they would become hip to what Perry’s schtick is and while others are launching a campaign to hold him accountable (wherein he either steps his game up or quits, his choice) the masses will be able to refuse what he’s offering.
There is no wrong way to go about this because both ways are good and effective. The issue is which method should be employed first. I believe education and mentorship should be the first attack.
Perry is not worried about his money situation, because he knows his audience doesn’t know and/or refuses to acknowledge that they should or do know better.
@ Hollywood Blackout
Absolutely as less professional BM are in relationships with BW we also see the rash of films with a white female as the “other women” like that dreadful new film “Obsessed” with Beyonce and Idris Elba all these films play to the WORST steretypes.
In this new film Obsessed a crazed white woman is obsessed with a handsome married “saint-like” professional BM, in the trailer he tries numerous times to avoid the agressive advances of this beautiful blonde woman who hounds him mercilessly as he runs for safety all along reminding her he is a married man.
Not THAT is side splitting comedy!
And Gina you are SO ON POINT about the masses of black folk supporting Obama DESPITE his education and not because of it.
Remember when he went to Ben’s Chili Bowl in D.C. and black folks got all excited because he said “We straight” to the guy behind the counter??! They were actually celebrating the fact that he used improper english and felt that gave him “cred” within the community! And of course the MSM picked up on that and ran with it. Their mantra was clear: even if you have ascended to the highest office in the land, black people still want their “black people” to be “black”. It was embarassing to be quite honest.
This is they type of assault on black professionals that I have witnessed my entire life. And the black professionals that bend over backwards to prove that they are “still down” irks me just as much.
I am not saying that some of us don’t “dibble dabble” between two worlds but I am not about to hide anything just so folks can feel comfortable.
At the beginning of the campaign I talked to a few older (uneducated) black women who said they weren’t really “feeling” Michelle because she came across as someone who would only hang out with people who were as successful as she was. When I asked them what’s wrong with that they said that black women (ahem) shouldn’t be like that because “we all come from the same background” and should all support each other. They were basically saying that this Ivy league educated, married professional woman should want to “kick it” with any and everybody who is black just because.
I was floored.
The Pol Pot analogy was brilliant.
To those who take the desecration and dehumanization of our images too lightly, consider that billions of dollars are spent on marketing, to include directing subliminal messages of unworthiness so that people consume products, or act in other ways, to make them feel better about themselves. To quote one sociological school of thought, “an attitude is the number of messages received.” That’s why it’s important to observe with a critical eye.
As for Tyler Perry, I’ve watched a few bootleg versions of his productions, but with the same critical eye I view all productions. His character formulas feed into many black men’s fears of inadequacy, and resentment of any woman who can’t be beaten, mocked, or sexed into submission. Educated black women are any easy target for a TP audience: Education implies critical thinking skills, and my experience with religious black folk is that if you rely on anything other than blind faith, you are challenging “God” (who they view as a man, of course). An educated woman implies greater earning potential, which is a challenge to the male ego, and anything that arguably challenges the male ego constitutes stepping out of one’s “place.” An educated woman also implies a corrupt mindset (“hardened heart” as they like to call it) attributable to misplaced priorities (i.e., she has made education a priority to her detriment, thus she is bitter, dishonest, ruthless, or [insert demeaning term here]).
Also, I believe that TP’s humor is “tongue-in-cheek,” actually mocking religious hypocrisy, except he appeals to an audience too consumed with religious “piety” to notice it. His Madea character routinely mocks the scripture, mocks “speaking in tongues,” and for most (if not all) of his plays he’s absent from stage during the gospel song performances. In some scenes he actually denies being a Christian and boasts about not going to church. Something tells me he doesn’t believe in what he’s selling; that, or he’s a walking contradiction. And yes, I believe much of this began as a way to deflect from his own issues as a self-hating homosexual. He’s reminds me of the gay choir director acting out because the preacher made him give the preacher’s daughter (home from college on Spring Break) the Sunday solo.
I enjoy this blog.
@ knockout chick: I identify totally with the situation you initially described.
Dating myself here: I was in undergrad during the late 70s when the Detroit Big 3 (and their suppliers) were still hiring college students to work during the summers. I worked in a plant for two summers back then and I cannot tell you how many men (all Black, btw) told me I was stupid for going to college and taking out loans/working summers to pay tuition.
They all bragged about how much money they could make without college. They didn’t care about improving themselves as long as they got a fat check every two weeks.
Now many of them (like me) are middle aged. They are getting older and there is no market for anyone without higher ed or special training, or specialized experience. Heck, it’s hard for the ones with higher ed.
A lot of them were just too lazy and greedy to prepare themselves for the future. Now they are paying for it and they’re angry about it. Even the retirees are having their benefits reduced and being put in financial jeopardy.
@deborah and knockout chick: I really agree with you. I too went to college in the late 70’s. I was pushed to go to college by my father who said that an education was the one thing no one could take away from you. That’ s what people need to tell youngsters. The cars, the houses, the bling can all be taken away, but no one can take away your education.
I saw one TP movie on bootleg and it was the most boring thing I’ve ever seen, and it went on forever. I had to leave the room or else I would have slipped into a coma.
This is going to be unpopular but I think one of the reasons why TP is so against black professionals is sadly because some of those professional believe because they have degrees and jobs, they are above “working class” black folk. I’ve had people who were in positions of authority, who didn’t know anything about me, assume because of how I was dressed (never in a suit) that I was “beneath” them. Once they found out I had a degree and what my job was, it was like night and day. I learned that even though I do have a good job, it’s only temporary, I could lose it tomorrow; and my title and position is not who I am.
gem…your response…is the Gospel. Real Talk.
I am so glad that Pol Pot has come up. Pol Pot is the end result of when keepin it real goes wrong.
His character formulas feed into many black men’s fears of inadequacy, and resentment of any woman who can’t be beaten, mocked, or sexed into submission. Educated black women are any easy target for a TP audience: Education implies critical thinking skills, and my experience with religious black folk is that if you rely on anything other than blind faith, you are challenging “God” (who they view as a man, of course). An educated woman implies greater earning potential, which is a challenge to the male ego, and anything that arguably challenges the male ego constitutes stepping out of one’s “place.” An educated woman also implies a corrupt mindset (”hardened heart” as they like to call it) attributable to misplaced priorities (i.e., she has made education a priority to her detriment, thus she is bitter, dishonest, ruthless, or [insert demeaning term here]).
I2I. This has to be one of the most accurate deconstructions of Total Pathology that I have ever seen.
I started reading your site, when you broke the Dunbar Village story. Your blog has opened my eyes to a lot of things and has made me a better father to my daughter. I’m not a Perry fan, but if a person loses self esteem over trash like this, then how much self esteem did they really have?
Gina, thanks for that primer on Barack Obama! I was not aware of all that history. I first heard of Obama when Oprah said that she would support him if he ever ran for President (that was probably 2 years or so before he began his run and probably long before anyone even thought he would even attempt a run, not to mention a run against Hillary Clinton). I must confess to not having paid a lot of attention during the democratic primaries, in part because the process seemed to go on forever and in part because Hillary Clinton seemed like a shoe-in for the nomination. And I do recall during both the primary race and the presidential race that Obama was accused of not being “black enough”, which I assume is code for being “too professional”, “too educated”, “speaking too white” and being “too comfortable” with white people. And I also recall that plenty of black Americans supported Hillary Clinton during the primaries and many (probably even some who supported Obama) stated with complete conviction that a black person could never be elected president in 2008 (at least prior to the start of the economic meltdown in September 2008). It is truly mazing how quickly black America has begun the revisionist history with President Obama – it usually takes a period of years before this happens.
@Hollywood Blackout
This is not to say that there is not an issue with BP devalueing education in our society, because I’ve experienced it myself throughout my lifetime. But I just had to comment on your post in regards to politics and why it matters to black folks…particularly “uneducated” BF that Barack and Michelle are “down. I believe it’s simply because people want to feel that those representing them (as politicians are supposed to do by trade) can relate to them in some way or another. If not in reality, it at least gives the impression that those people would have their best interest at heart…and not be just a “sell-out” as many educated BP are accused of being. There’s no rocket science in that, and it’s actually rather logical for any ethnic group to want to be represented by those who they believe hare their interest and beliefs…which is why they’d also like to believe that Michelle Obama is not above conversing with someone outside of her own Ivy league pedigree…since that’s not where you’d find most of our brethren.
I’m sorry, but even for an educated person like I ‘d like to believe that I am, your post came off very snobbish and condescending…
Just so that we can be clear since some seem to confused about what feminism is and isn’t from Wikipedia entry: feminism is the belief that women should have political, social, sexual, intellectual and economic rights equal to those of men. It involves various movements, theories, and philosophies, all concerned with issues of gender difference, that advocate equality for women and the campaign for women’s rights and interests.
Women who are part of other racial groups have their own unique paths to take as they realize their power as do Black women.
The attack on Black women seemed to have shifted from the poor welfare queen with multiple kids to the Ivy League degreed woman as a ballbuster. Either image is problematic in that it distorts reality for a lie.
Anyone who’s contributing to perpetrating these images, along with the oversexualized ones of the video girls and pushing soft porn for music these days is leading us into a genocide. Be it the creator – who should be cut off at the kneecaps – or those that buy or support the creator it equally leads down this path.
It seems that some point after Civil Rights and integration it became cool to be dumb, to not think of the future generations and to only focus on the immediate.
Why would people think there’d always be manufacturing and labor jobs is beyond me. My grandfather lost his steel mill job at 62 and that was back in the mid-70’s. Right then and there smart people would have been preparing for a higher class of jobs and elevate themselves instead of digging in their heels and remaining mediocre.
And I asked a Jewish person once why so many were compelled to go into law and medical careers and it was about survival, professionalism and always having a prestigious job that would least likely be taken away. It is something that’s instilled in the kids – something that a lot of Blacks are not doing. Which is also why we’re having so many problems.
Black films and black TV shows in general tend to villify educated and professional blacks. The professional bm is a womanizer and crooked, and the professional bw is a naive-workaholic-child neglecter, who doesn’t realize until the end of the film, that what she really needs is a “real brotha, not a sucka in a suit”.
You do have a flare for the dramatic I will give you that.
1. Bobby Rush was an incumbent. And a Panther. Obama was stupid to take him on. Incumbents win MOST of the time…his high level of education wasn’t even an issue why he lost. He went after an established pol and unless Rush was caught with a dead woman or a live boy he wasn’t going to lose.
2. You don’t know that black folk voted for Obama despite his education. No proof. Pure speculation.
3. Anti-intellectualism is an AMERICAN problem..NOT a black problem. Look at how Kerry was dogged for being “elite” and how we ended up with eight years of Bush because he seemed like a “nice guy to have a beer with.” The damn man said he didn’t read books and so many people thought that was great. Americans pride themselves on being ignorant, black white or otherwise.
4. Pol pot…really? That’s laughable.
Pol Pot is not laughable because Gina established at the beginning that this is bigger than Tyler Perry. However, JJ, I agree that anti-intellectualism is an AMERICAN problem, and that this nation-wide trend is being reflected in Black communities and politics as well as the nation at large.
The George Bush example was apt. A friend and I were talking about Rush Limbaugh just this week and wondering if anyone on the far right realized how much they were sounding like Stalin. The “intelligensia” were among the first he attacked. So whether you want to put it on Tyler Perry, Limbaugh, or Hannity, this nation is heading toward a Pol Pot future, and it looks like Black folks are right in step with the extreme right. Ironic.
On the other hand, I have to agree with JustSaying, that as I read the previous posts it seems that the effort to counter anti-intellectualism resulted in devaluing blue-collar African Americans. That’s most of my family… who are right proud of my doctorate.
@eagleview
Sorry but Tyler Perry is not a precursor to Pol Pot. The anti-intellectual aspect in Tyler’s films is not the real issue.
They were all intellectual in “Why Did I Get Married.” Tyler’s big theme is about a woman knowing her place. If she’s intellectual and married and submissive than she is good. If not, she’s the Devil’s spawn.
Now black men can occasionally get hit with the anti-intellectual stamp, but that’s if they believe they are better than everyone else because of their intellectual-ness (yes I know that’s not a word). Otherwise smart men are given a pass.
Why would people think there’d always be manufacturing and labor jobs is beyond me. My grandfather lost his steel mill job at 62 and that was back in the mid-70’s. Right then and there smart people would have been preparing for a higher class of jobs and elevate themselves instead of digging in their heels and remaining mediocre.
My observation:
It is important to remember too, that working class men’s jobs traditionally paid more than working class women’s jobs, so for a woman to hope for pay at the level of a working class man, she needed more education, which was becoming more and more available.
JJ, Recall I said that Pol Pot was not laughable because the issue is BIGGER than Tyler Perry. I did not mean that I consider the man Tyler Perry as a precursor to Pol Pot. What I am saying is that the observations being made about his films – in general – reflect a larger national trend that make it very easy to imagine a Pol Pot emerging here. I personally believe it is highly unlikely to be Tyler Perry… but then who in the 40s ever thought the star of “Bedtime for Bonzo” would be President in 40 years. Hmmmm…
TP must be cutting a lot of checks to his supporters over the last few days….
Is the general consensus, then, that someone will rise up against Black Women and subjugate the intelligentsia in order to create a “Year Zero”? The reason I ask is because Pol Pot was a madman, and a communist zealot who wanted to erase all past history that’s why killed the “keepers” of that history. He didn’t have a grudge, per se, against smart people. He just needed them gone to accomplish his goal. Orwellian, but I believe this is where we are headed, and like JJ said, this is an American problem (I’d add global). This sees no race or gender, Americans are reaping what they’ve sown from the seeds of anti-intellectualism.
Actually, let me take that back. I don’t think there will be a genocide. That’s a lot of useless killing and it’s unnecessary. They’ll just keep it going until there is no longer any need for intellectuals and free thinkers. They’ll just leave them to rot in mediocrity and the ridicule of their ignorant peers.
The whole analogy to Pol Pot is problematic. Pol Pot was trying to eliminate all of what he defined as “Western.” Intellectuals were not the only target or even the main target, and the ideas behind the genocide were not cultivated within Cambodian society or accepted by Cambodian society – it was people with guns vs. people without guns. Further, to say that Cambodia was on the brink of being the next Japan or had the right people to be the next Japan is a joke.
As for Tyler Perry and his whole thing, I agree he definitely has issues with women. I mean considering he made his career off of cross-dressing, you would expect there to be some issues, right? But I don’t think his attack on professional Black women has much impact. I think it is what it is, and it is not much better than anything else out there.
I think the constant attack on working class Black women is much more organized, is coming from a more devious place, is more far-reaching, and has a greater impact on young Black women (I’m talking about the video/music portrayal).
And I agree with JJ, anti-intellectualism is a truly American problem. As for the comments about men in the 70s, that is what is was, men proud to make money…today, myself and all of my male friends put a woman’s intellect ahead of anything else, by far. So we are out there!
@Goldenah
Just because you don’t agree with the premise of the argument doesn’t mean you’re a Tyler Perry supporter.
@ JustSaying
In practice, that theory doesn’t really hold true for many Black voters. Clinton was given a large amount of support by the Black working class early in her bid for presidency, despite her (and her husband) being the POLAR OPPOSITE of the Black working class in every single way imaginable. Oddly enough, I’ve yet to hear a single complaint that the Clintons were not “down” enough. (Oddly still, there were those in our community who proclaimed Bill Clinton to be the 1st “Black President” based off his lying and infidelity during his term in office….but that’s another conversation.)
Policy differences aside, if you put the credentials of the Obamas with that of the Clintons, there is very little in way of contrast….all 4 of them are ivy league educated lawyers! Yet, the Obamas were heavily criticized for their Harvard degrees, while the Clintons’ Yale and Wellesley degrees were a non issue.
The real issue is that self-hating people like Tyler Perry continue mock, devalue, and scorn education in the Black community under the guise of “keeping it real”.
I wont defend TP on that principle, but yes…thats the undertone of his films. That Professional Black Women are out of pocket!
I attended a screening of Black Cinema at the 1996 National Arts Festival, and a Sista siting next to me who was in town attending the NABSW conference, lean over and said you will see the emergence of the over qualified/educated Super Black Woman, and the pursue of them by Whitemen!
TP, understands that many of the selfish indiviuals have no real agenda outside the hedonistic self interest!
Miki
“And yes, I believe much of this began as a way to deflect from his own issues as a self-hating homosexual. He’s reminds me of the gay choir director acting out because the preacher made him give the preacher’s daughter (home from college on Spring Break) the Sunday solo.”
I’m always fascinated how the “self-hating homosexual” label is hurled at Perry when he’s not the first Black guy to dress as woman for laughs. Examples I can think of include Flip Wilson, Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence.
Heck, even “macho” Black actors like Wesley Snipes and Ving Rhames have played drag queens.
So, why is Perry’s masculinity questioned while that of other Black male celerbrities isn’t?
Just something to think about.
JJ wrote
“They were all intellectual in “Why Did I Get Married.” Tyler’s big theme is about a woman knowing her place. If she’s intellectual and married and submissive than she is good. If not, she’s the Devil’s spawn.”
Interestingly, the movie is accurately biblical on that point.
Wives are to submit to (respect) the authority of their husbands:
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Ephesians 5: 22-24
Note that submission only applies when the husband is acting in a Christ-centered way. If your husband says “Let’s rob a bank!,” then you must tell him that the idea is evil. (If he still wants to rob the bank, don’t be an accomplice; let the cops handle it.)
I’ll also point out the above passage does not imply that women can’t work outside the home.
Conversely, God expects the following from husbands:
“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”
Ephesians 5: 25-33
So, husbands are acting like Satan’s spawn if they physically and/or verbally abuse their wives. Husbands are to love, protect, and nuture their wives, not exploit or oppress them.
Perry’s films have had some questionable theology, but on husband/wife relations, he’s spot on.
TP must be cutting a lot of checks to his supporters over the last few days….
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY
Tyler Perry: The Controversry Over His Hit Movies
“Tyler Perry understands that much of his audience is African-American women – the most ignored group in Hollywood – so he’s doing movies that speak to them,” Bogle says.”
Perhaps part of the reason why so few take the objections to Tyler Perry’s portrayals of Black women seriously could be because the only group that seem to enjoy his films consistently are BLACK WOMEN.
Black men aren’t running to see Tyler Perry, neither are whites, Hispanics or Asians.
Can we see a “Ladies, We’re Divesting Ourselves Of Tyler Perry And Boarding The Ark Movement”soon? Might be helpful.
It is my opinion that Mr. Perry has deep contempt for all black women, not just the professional kind. Take House of Payne for example. The nephew’s wife is a crackhead who has abandoned her husband and children after burning the house down. To complicate matters further, she allowed the insurance policy to lapse on said home prior to the fire leaving her familly homeless. Her mother is a snob (most charitable way to describe her). He treats all of his female characters in the same uncharitable fashion. Now, for a brief period, he had a latina character on the show and she was the only female that had her head on straight. And, he named her “Angel”…. I don’t like the guy.
Groan.
I’m having trouble with this post mainly because I think there is a difference between edumucated black women and intellects/creatives.
I think a lot of professionals are plain-stupid, rote, soulless, conformist, unquestioning, and incapable of an original thought. I do in some cases feel they should be maligned, especially black women who are forever talking about their bloody degrees, as if that’s all they’re worth. They embarrass me so much with their clear dependence on a piece of paper, that I usually never mention the couple of degrees I have.
So if Tyler Perry wants to lambaste “professional black women”, I say go ahead, because quite frankly none of you represent me as an artist. “Professional black women” are as much a stereotype as “mammy.” And their both EMBARRASSING to me.
Basically as a Black woman you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If you reach for something vis a vis getting a college education you condemned as being uppity, cold and soulless. If you don’t go for the $38,000 aka a college degree you are seen as slacking.
In the end if it ain’t this it’ll be something else.
I will say that the last TP flick I was ‘dragged’ to I did notice the cruelness of the way the ‘educated’ Black women were portrayed. As if all that reading and writing and mashed down out all their kindness and decency. I believe as long as the number of Black men in America without any formal education past HS is high in number than college educated women will be demonized and disrespected.
Again…they [and this group knows no race or gender boundaries] , those who stand against Black women, will always won’t to see Black women work…cos’ ain’t nobody gonna pay for you but yourself BUT do not take to much pride or esteem in the fruits of your labors. By all means stay humble…if you do not…then you are like all the suit wearing, Blackberry obessed women featured in TP flicks…and you are no better than the crack dealers and pimps…in fact you are worst cos’ you are hustling BUT for yourself and no anyone else.
:SIGH:
Fred,
I should point out that my emphasis is on “self-hating” rather than homosexual. I do not challenge TP’s masculinity. Indeed, there are many masculine homosexuals. My observation isn’t based on his drag performance at all, actually. Ironically, it’s the only thing I find “authentic” about his productions. Self-hating (again, emphasis on self-hating) homosexual men often demonstrate a contempt for, and deep-seated resentment of, women whom they do not desire women and yet are envious of their appeal to those who do.
Chele, I agree with the points you made in your first paragraph above–the Catch 22.
With respect to education, no person (of any race or either gender) needs to apologize for being educated, self-sufficient, ambitious, or competent. I’ve learned that people who have a problem with it are projecting their own shortcomings and insecurities. I don’t own it.
Miki wrote:
“I should point out that my emphasis is on “self-hating” rather than homosexual. I do not challenge TP’s masculinity. Indeed, there are many masculine homosexuals.”
I still don’t see why Perry is branded a “self hating homosexual” for playing a female character while Wesley Snipes get a pass for doing the same thing.
Isn’t that hypocritical?
Fred, I didn’t say I think of him as a self-hating homosexual simply because he plays a female character. That observation, standing alone, would be without merit (not to mention a demonstration of simplistic, non-critical thinking).
I believe I’ve already been quite clear in articulating my opinion on this matter.
Every educated woman in his movies and/or plays was not evil. Women should be submissive……as long as it is to their husbands.
I’ve always had issues with Tyler Perry’s films. I’ve never considered that his message may be part of a greater trend of social destruction. Maybe I’m just not that perceptive but I never really took him that seriously. I feel there’s always been a certain type of man that is intimidated by an independent woman. They try to blame it on Willy Lynch, they try to blame it on remnants of slave culture, they even try to blame it on their own hardworking single mother/grandmother for “emasculating” them when they were growing up. Uneducated men with few prospects and even fewer skills will always be intimidated by an intelligent, successful woman. That will never go away. In my opinion the most important thing to do is remind young women that these underachieving men have no jurisdiction over their lives and no grounds upon which to judge them. There is nothing wrong with thinking a man is not good enough for you (especially if he isn’t!). Young women must know that insults like: stuck up, uppity, think your too good, and of course the ubiquitous b-word are tools men with no self-respect or self-esteem use to try and drag you down to their level.
He is anti-Black woman period. It is so obvious!
“Every educated woman in his movies and/or plays was not evil.”
I can’t comment on the plays, but I’ve seen several of Perry’s movies. You are correct that the movies depict a mix of educated Black female characters.
A great example is “Daddy’s Little Girls,” in which a high-priced lawyer Julia (Gabrielle Union) falls for a blue collar mechanic/limo driver Monty (Idris Elba). This romance soon hits some bumps because of Julia’s friends, who think Monty is beneath her because of his background. The friends never bother to see Monty’s more important, internal qualities: character, courage, work ethic, love (for Julia and his kids), etc.
Fortunately, Julia isn’t shallow. She realizes that Monty is a great catch and sticks with him. Presumably, the couple marries after the film ends.
Clearly, “Girls” isn’t demonizing all educated Black women. However, it does challenge the myth that “college degree = morality.” Julia’s friends brand Monty as sexually promiscuous because he’s from the ‘hood. However, one of these same friends, Cynthia, is later having sex with yet another man, thereby engaging in the very behavior she accused Monty of. Talk about hypocritical.
Contrast this with Julia, who has enough self-control and self-respect not to bed every guy she meets. She wants a loving, genuine relationship, not another notch on her belt. Julia really is moral and classy, but those qualities are due to upbringing instead of a college degree. Little wonder she finds common ground with Monty, who shares her values despite their differences in education.
“Girls” tackles a rarely discussed angle of the educated Black women debate. Sure, there are Black men who reject a Black woman because she is more educated. Other the other hand, there are Black men who reject such a woman simply because she lacks morality (e.g., Julia’s friends).
Bottom line, morals matter a lot more than how many degrees you have. Society would be better off if we again embraced this truth.
“Women should be submissive……as long as it is to their husbands.”
I already dealt with this issue in an earlier post.
http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/2009/04/tyler-perry-and-pol-pot-when-you-begin-to-consume-your-own-you%E2%80%99re-done/#comment-17183
So now education is inconsistent with morality and morality is inconsistent with education? Herein lies part of the great problems of the black community – this either/or thinking. Successful people combine both characteristics (or at least enough of both to become and remain successful). Other groups have no problem understanding this and are enjoying the fruits of their labor and success. While black americans who are deficient in one or both of these characteristics try to evade the issue by pretending that it’s an either/or proposition.
“He is anti-Black woman period. It is so obvious!”
Pardon my obscene adherence to logic, but if Tyler Perry is so “obviously anti-Black woman,” then please explain why Black women are overwhelmingly the dominant consumers of his plays, movies and even his television shows?
ZeBra: if you read this post and the TP post before it, you’ll have the answer to your question.
A friend who admires your blog linked me to you, and it’s made for fascinating reading. Re: Pol Pot, Cabodian history is a lot more complicated than just a sudden genocide out of nowhere. Cambodia pre-civil war was a leading Asian country with huge potential, ahead of its peers. Most of the senior Khmer Rouge leaders were educated intelligentsia, and the genocide was not simply about destroying anything Western, but about returning to an idealized peasant utopia that would then become the perfect communist state. It was less about education, more about ethnicity, wealth and power in the previous regime, all of which tied closely to educational levels.
They didn’t care so much if you were smart, but if you would bend to their will.
Anyway, thanks for the time and energy in putting together such an amazing read.
Fred,
I appreciate your biblical reference but not everybody shares the same spirituality. The bible says WIVES as you stated. IT DOES NOT SAY WOMEN. MOST MEN INTERPRET THIS TO MEAN WOMEN ARE TO SUBMITT TO MEN. Sorry but that’s not realistic.
Furthermore, the bible also tells slaves to obey their master. Colossians 3:22: “Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God”.
Or: NIV version Ephesians 6:5: “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ”
If we literally interpret the bible, we would still be slaves. Or, we were wrong to not enjoy serving masta the way we’re supposed to obey Christ!!!
No one wants to be a slave. Therefore I don’t think its wise to use exclusively use literal biblical interpretations regarding TP and the media/society’s denegration of black women or anybody for that matter.