Why do I post these stories… BECAUSE I CAN! I’m warning you in advance so don’t want to hear whining in the comments about how depressed this blog makes you, feel free to read elsewhere.
Quiana Pietrzak
WAOD Lorraine sent me this story about a Marine sergeant who appears to have been tortured and killed by four of his own men. Don’t expect this to be on MSNBC or CNN like the other cases involving Marines such as the case of Maria Lauterbach.
Pawel Pietrza and his wife, Quiana, were bound gagged and shot execution style in the head she was raped with an “instrument”. Quiana Faye Jenkins-Pietrzak worked as a health education assistant, the deputy director of the Riverside County Department of Public Health. In other words, this sister had her stuff together and was going places. They had just purchased a new home and Pawel used his enlistment bonus to purchase a new floor.
She was writing thank you notes at the time of the home invasion. Lorraine pointed to this story, but it gets worse:
A Brooklyn-raised Marine sergeant and his new bride were tortured and killed execution-style in their California home - allegedly by four other Marines under his command.
Sgt. Jan Pawel Pietrzak, who was raised in Bensonhurst, and his wife, Quiana, were found bound and gagged in the ransacked house, each shot in the head.
Pietrzak was the suspects’ sergeant at Camp Pendleton, Quiana’s mother said Wednesday.
“They’re monsters,” Faye Jenkins told the Daily News. “They’re monsters.”
Pietrzak’s mother, Henryka Pietrzak-Varga, said she had prepared herself “for the possibility that my son could die in Iraq.”
“But to die like this, in their own home?” she told The News. “They were good kids. They didn’t deserve to die like this.”
Investigators said the motive for murder was “financial gain.” Neither mother believes that.
“When I found out what they did to them, it was like they killed me, too,” Pietrzak-Varga said. NY Daily News
When I searched for more information, it turns out there have been confessions in the case. You can see photographs of the victims and the four suspects at The NY Daily News The article provided additional details.
The initial report was that NOTHING. WAS. TAKEN. FROM. THE . HOME ( Helloooooooo-Alarm bells should be going off.) Look at the photos and tell me this doesn’t have HATE CRIME written ALL OVER IT! YEAH, I said it! GENDER and RACE are both protected classes, but don’t expect federal charges. According to the AP, these are the charges:
The men were each charged with two counts of first-degree murder and special-circumstance allegations of committing multiple murders, committing the crime during a robbery, and rape by instrument, district attorney’s spokesman Ryan Hightower said Thursday. Associated Press
Here are some other tidbits from The NY Daily News article.
Pvt. Kesuan Sykes, 21, of California, is nicknamed “Psycho” and admitted that he “cut” off Quiana Jenkins-Pietrzak’s clothes, the court papers state.
Lance Cpl. Tyrone Miller, 20, of North Carolina, told cops he threatened Pietrzak with a shotgun to get into the house. He said he bound and gagged the couple and then debated with John whether to kill them.
All of the suspects say that Quiana Jenkins-Pietrzak was sexually assaulted, but each says it was the other three who did it, the papers say.
This is more heinous than the news is telling us. They. debated. whether. to. kill. them. They literally invaded the house as Quiana was writing thank you notes from the wedding.
More wedding pictures. They looked so happy and I am not the only one that instantly thought HATE CRIME. Read the comments.
You can sign an online book of condolences
107 comments ↓
Sad to say I will not be surprised if you hear nothing about this from the NAACP, Urban League or other institutions supposedly looking out for the interest of blacks because (1) she is a bw and (2) she had the nerve to marry outside the race. In fact it would not surprised if this tragic event is used to try and whip bw into shape.
As a former Marine, I’m shocked, saddened, and sickened by this story. My deepest condolences go out to the families of the victims.
What has happened to the honor that was once an integral part of my beloved Corps? More importantly, what in hell is wrong with young people today that they can treat other human beings with such hatred and savagery? I weep for our childrens’ future.
Well interracial couples all over the country had better stand up and push for a hate crimes designation. They also had better make the media pay attention to this crime. Raise hell about it. If they don’t no body else will.
I see this kind of behavior all the time online with Black women who run sites about interracial dating and marriage being stalked, threatened, and intimidated while everyone else just stands around and watches. Even I caught flack for including them on my blogroll, back in the day when I had a blogroll.
Seriously, as the numbers of Black women marrying outside the race increases, folks had better start making a stand and fighting back.
Like you said. Don’t expect the NAACP and the Civil Rights Industrial Complex to stand up for Black women, particularly those who marry White men. Not going to happen.
As soon as I saw the photos, I was like, this was so not about money. You had a Black woman who had her stuff together, just got married. Married to a man that spent his enlistment check on new floors for their modest home and you know she died listening to their taunts.
You KNOW that if this had been a Black couple killed by four white marines the hounds of HELL couldn’t keep the Black community from marching.
I agree with you, Gina, this crime most certainly was not about money. Marines, especially enlisted ones such as the victim, don’t have any wealth of which to speak. Uncle Sam sees to that on both ends of the pay process. No, this crime was about something a lot more base and sinister than financial gain.
I hope those four maggots receive the full measure of punishment they deserve for snuffing out those two precious lives in such a callous, savage way.
Does the military screen ANYONE anymore? How these four sociopaths got past a psychosocial evaluation is mind-numbing. Even worse, is if robbery were the motive, why rape, torture, and kill?
I agree with you Gina, the case clearly smacks of a hate crime.
I was attempting to read the NY Daily News comments and I’m sorry, all I saw were crazy a** comments justifying the actions of those devils. One person was even so callous as to blame the murders on PTSD.
PTSD doesn’t make you do things like this… EVER. BEING ROTTEN FROM THE START does.
I just saw this story on ABCnews.com. Surprisingly, it is getting some national press.
When I first heard about this, I thought it had to be Skinheads. But ohhh no, it was 4 young black thugs. Sad to say but some of the people that surround you in the military are more dangerous than the enemy..This young couple did not have anything to steal. I think they were upset with their sergeant and wanted to get even..But to shot them in the back of the head????? Evil, just plain evil..
Gina, I don’t comment on your blog because of all the flack you took for including my site on your blogroll. I’m so sorry about that. If you decide not to post this comment, I will understand. I will still love your fighting spirit and appreciate you to the max for all of the work you’ve done on the behalf of all of us black women.
But black women MUST stop ducking and hiding from these predators. This case shows clearly that they will still pursue us. It shows that even when we duck and hide, these predators STILL feel justified in coming after us and punishing us for bruising their egos. So black women are not safe even when we do escape, and our children aren’t either.
Quiana died, but she had secured the gift of love before she went. She had a man who loved her, one who had SHOWN his commitment to love her forever. So she and her husband still had the victory. I say that because I know that there are some who are reading this or about the murders who are happy about her “punishment,” so I want them to know that she had her VICTORY–something they’ll never get because of their hateful hearts.
I’m sure she WAS taunted before they killed her. I’m sure she was taunted even before she married him with “sell-out” “traitor” and a few other favorites, just as many of us interracially married black women are–before and after marriage. Yet so many black men will “claim” that it doesn’t matter to them who a black woman chooses to love or marry. Don’t Believe it! We KNOW what we’re experiencing.
This is a civil rights issue. Black women have the “right” to love and marry ANY man we choose. Black women must encourage other black women to broaden their dating and marriage options as much as possible–even if we are all branded as sell-outs and traitors, even if they try to kill us all.
I don’t know what it will take for African-Americans to stand up and fight back against this increasing menace to us and our children.
May they rest.
If this is a hate crime, I am shocked. I used to live in a military town and interracial dating in the military is very high. There were so many white men with Asian women black men with Asian women and white women. So I thought they would be used to this. But I guess a black women with any other race must be a no no. Just another double standard for black women.
This is very odd. Oh, not unusual for military folk to kill, (especially their spouses) but highly unusual for them to kill another service member, especially someone of higher rank. (Obviously, this doesn’t include ‘fragging’ incidents that happen in combat situations. Even then, it’s usually officers, not fellow non-coms who get ‘fragged.’) As for the notion of PTSD, hello, these guys are mechanics. That’s not to say that they’re not exposed to combat situations, but they’re hardly on the front lines. And four guys to get PTSD and murder someone as a group? Never in my experience.
I think it’s clear that this crime was not financially motivated, and the sexual assault with an object is very telling. I don’t know about y’all, but how many times have you had a black man dismiss you with the phrase, “I wouldn’t [insert obscene sexual term] you with somebody else’s [insert crude term for male genitalia].”
Given the proclivity for interracial dating in the military, I doubt that it’ll occur to any of the investigators that this could be a hate crime. People don’t understand that the dynamics and response to males dating out is totally different from the response to females dating out. Unless this point is brought up to them, I doubt they’ll explore it.
Certainly this is a line of questioning that should be explored with the perps. However, if they did not indicate in any way that these victims were chosen because of their interracial marriage, it won’t be possible to charge this as a hate crime. Most hate crime legislation is directed towards motive, and if they say they came in to steal, and there’s no evidence to the contrary, that’s the way it’ll have to go. The case against them seems pretty iron clad and given that they’ll be convicted of double murder, robbery and sexual assault in a death penalty state I would imagine that hate crime charges won’t be necessary.
I am deeply saddened and disturbed by what happened to this couple. Hate has to be the ugliest and most useless emotion that human beings can succumb to in this world. I am in tears as I write. My prayers go out to their family.
Keep doing what you do on this site because I think it is definitely making a difference in how main stream media reports what should be considered relevant news…I just saw this story on CNN.
This is getting national attention. It was on the local NYC news yesterday and today I saw it on CNN.
I do not know what is wrong with young men today. These four are beyond sorry.
You are right however, had this been a black couple murdered by white Marines then Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and every black leader and his brother would be demanding these guy’s heads, but because they are black men, nobody cares.
BlkSeaGoat said:
Does the military screen ANYONE anymore?
Yes, the military does still screen potential recruits, but the standards have gone way, way, way, way down since the Bush presidency/administration. That is because he has our [non-conscripted] military spread thinly fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Also, because of the endless war on terror that he has us engaged in, the recruitment numbers are down: Very few people want to join the military anymore, because they know that there is a one-hundred-percent chance that they will be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan, where it is very likely you will be killed, or if you are not, you will be disabled. Therefore, the military is taking just about anybody who shows up to the recruitment office.
================================
This is a very sad story.
You can see in the photos of the couple that they were very much in love. They looked so very happy. Just looking at the groom’s proud stance, and their wide, beaming smiles in their wedding photo made me tear up.
Reading the report of the crime, it makes me wonder how long those men had been planning this crime. Those men went there to kill them — there is no doubt about that; robbery was an afterthought. They went there to rape her, too — to teach her a lesson for “daring” to marry a white man. Unfortunately, seeing the photos of those four men who commited the crime, makes me sadder, because given their size (they all look like big, strong men…look at the size of their necks!), you can only imagine just how brutally the wife was treated during the rape. And there is no doubt in my mind that more than only one, if not all, of them raped her.
The “good” news would be, is if those men are tried in military court. For if they are found guilty there, they will surely be given the sentence of death.
One more thing - if she wasn’t so beautiful and impressive with that gorgeous smile and vibe - these 4 would likely pay her no mind. If she was any form of ugly, nobody would care who she married. It’s like when you see two ugly people together, it’s almost a beautiful thing! But to see Quiana, a stunning and all around gorgeous woman - they just flased some pictures of the couple on local NY news (OK, I am slightly obsessed with her, she reminds me of an ex) - with a non-Black man (i.e. Halle and whathisname Mr. Model, I can only imagine the response from most black men - my one friend is incensed that Halle got with Mr. Model AND had a baby - he would rather see her unhappy and childless with no one.
Anyway…I found this guestbook for Quiana and Pawel online…it was easy to send their family a message.
http://www.legacy.com/pe/GB/GuestbookEntry.aspx?&PersonID=119187011
It’s such a waste and seems to have no other motive than hate. As a woman who is considering all of my relationship options, it has definitely pissed me off and given me more to be aware of and fight against.
For what it’s worth, I had no idea that you (Gina) had gotten such crap from people for including IR-related sites on your blogroll. I actually found quite a few by checking out the blogs of some of your commentors and I’m glad I did.
I just hope DJBlackAdam doesn’t see this. As a former Marine he would absolutely take care of them ‘in proper Marine Corps fashion.’
This is just disgusting. Its clearly a hate crime. Why won\’t the media report it that way? Wheres Al Sharpton? I doubt this would have even been reported if they weren\’t Marines.
CNN picked up this story….very sad
I read about this on another bloggers site and the first thing I thought upon seeing pictures of the suspects is that this was a hate crime. As a Black woman married interracially this really disturbs me, they looked like a young happy couple in love.
Quiana Pietrzak turned in her Civil Rights Benefits Card when she married a white man, apparently.
I hope the attackers will be tried in a military court, found guilty, and promptly executed.
We need to send a message we won’t tolerate others telling us how to live and constraining our options with this type of sadistic violence. These attackers were motivated by hate and the desire to frighten and intimidate black women who love, date, and marry interracially.
May the deceased rest in peace. May they live happily together forever.
Blessings to their families.
I am grateful the national media are picking up this story.
This is horrible. I’m not sure why this isn’t a hate crime.
I hope these guys get the death penalty.
What scum. They deserve to die. Too bad they weren’t in the line of active duty where their lives are in danger. Perhaps they’ve always harboured this hate; the Marines have them a new way to display it.
What a waste.
I briefly saw this but I had no idea it was a Black woman who was murdered. I thought it was a bunch of white men until I saw the photos! It is DEFINITELY a hate crime. Damn! Sometimes the death penalty IS an appropriate punishment.
Well, this is a hate crime, just like the Walmart shooting is a similar hate crime:
http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/15676587.html
Treat them both the same. Death penalty.
Larry Elder is also discussing this on his show. He brings up the fact that the race of the suspects is being ignored. He also discusses many of the issues you’ve all brought up here. Maybe this story will go further mainstream.
There is another case I saw of 2 marines who killed another marine over drugs. According to a San Diego paper I saw online, one of the guys in this case being discussed here said they went there to rob the couple. Maybe that’s true, but for some reason I suspect that these guys knew the husband very well.
I’m just glad they got caught. I admit I just don’t understand why people do the things they do.
This is the same terror tactic that is used in Darfur, the Congo, the Balkans, etc. Instill fear and terror in others (black women) in order to assert dominance and control. There is no way this isn’t a hate crime. Gina is absolutely right- there is no way that this could be anything else with these 4 standing and debating. No way. This is yet another example of self-serving sadism. If our Dear Friend Al Sharpton doesn’t come with guns blazing I don’t know how much clearer it could be that the Black Community is strictly about and for black men period. I don’t know how in creation we as black people can stand up and scream about other people being “given a pass” for heinous behavior and then not scream until we are horse when this type of incident happens. It’s beyond belief and beyond reason.
Aeryn
This is horrible. I’m not sure why this isn’t a hate crime.
While we can speculate on the motive, from a legal standpoint, there must be evidence that the motive was race. The law can’t assume just because the couple was an interracial couple that this was the reason for the crime.
If our Dear Friend Al Sharpton doesn’t come with guns blazing I don’t know how much clearer it could be that the Black Community is strictly about and for black men period.
The problem with this is that Sharpton doesn’t come with guns blazing when black men kill other black men nor when any black person, man woman or child, kills anyone else. If these were white men who did this, he would be up in arms.
I will NOT bat an eye if these guys get the death penalty. If not, they should be sent to Iraq to dig fox holes in the midst of enemy fire.
Words cannot describe how angry I am. A beautiful young couple’s lives were stolen by four good for nothing maniacs. I’ll be watching this case and making whatever noise I can.
Lastly, my brother is a former marine who was based at Camp Pendleton. Apparently, racists do exist there. There is also the possibility of gang connections. They also infest the military. They really need to clean the armed forces out.
It is a “hate crime”… the definition of which is so loose that if the circumstances were so foul the concept would be laughable… let’s see… 4 two-legged, hairles bipieds (the word “men” is too being generous to these 4) tortured, raped, and murdered a married couple, but there was no hate involved?
Anyway, burn ‘em… but more than that…. the issue of black on white, black on asian, and black on hispanic crime needs to be trumpted as loud as possible. Denying that this problem exists a sickness in itself.
Phil
“Hate Crime” is a legal term to denote when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group. It doesn’t mean that literal hate is not involved in crimes that aren’t designated as such. The term is synonymous with the term “bias motivated crime”. It’s simply a term to designate a certain motivation and the word “hate” represents “hatred” of one or more of the particular social groups.
When a person asks “why isn’t this considered a hate crime”, logic suggests that the person is asking why the perpetrator has not been charged as such and the answer would usually be that there has not been sufficient evidence that the perpetrator’s motivation for the crime was race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, etc. Even if we have a strong gut feeling that there was such motivation, without evidence it is purely conjecture.
Dia, I’m quite familiar with the legal standards associated with the designation as “hate crime.” My point is that had these races been reverse and four White men did this to them, there would not have been ANY hesitation in fact there would be howling at the moon for the designation.
Knowing the history of the “hate crime” designation and the unrelenting threats that I have witnessed directed at Black women who blog or vlog about interracial dating and marriage, I actually fear for them. Back in the day, the feds got involved because the recognized that certain crimes were bigger than the “crime” because of the use of violence to affect the way that people lived their lives.
I am not saying that there is enough evidence to make a legal determination. I am merely asking why no apparent inquiry at all into whether or not these four were motivated by the fact that this Black woman married a White man.
The jail time would not increase with the designation, but it would be a powerful symbolic gesture to acknowledge the threat those families live under. I would not have believed it myself if I didn’t witness the assault on these Black women online. Wherever you go, blogs, YouTube, the “hate” is everywhere and nobody is talking about it.
I live in NYC where this story made the local news and was later picked up nationally. Like all of you, I was outraged after hearing the backstory, listening to the grieving mothers of these two beautiful souls and seeing the “Marine” thugs that committed this heinous crime. Both mothers suspect there is more to the crime than robbery. The motive may be revealed as the case unfolds but I suspect this was financially and racially motivated as well gang related. Yes, military recruiting standards have definitely been relaxed if not suspended altogether.
I can’t seem to reconcile the image of that beautiful loving couple full of hopes and dreams contrasted with the horror they endured. Crimes of depravity occur every day and everywhere. There are some that touch me more than most. This story hurt me to my very core. May they rest in loving peace together for eternity.
The black community has become desensitized to violence and violent behavior as there are a dispoportionately high number of violent assaults in our neighborhoods. In cases where suspects could have simply stolen goods and walked way we see brutal attacks and murders occur.
If young white men murdered each other at rates we see in Detroit, Philadelphia or Chicago there would be a national discussion on violence.
This story has taken hold of me. I am beyond shocked and saddened. I have been following it online since you posted it. I found it interesting that in reading comments on other sites that the majority of people were also similarly shocked…yet many posters on black oriented sites seemed to need a way to “justify” the crimes or did not seem to note the impact.
Many started responses with comments like “Last year my neighborhood and his family were murdered and tortured” or “My co-worker and his cousins were shot execution style….so I think drugs were involved” and so on.
I don’t know if this will be designated a hate crime. But I do know for many BW in IRRs who have experienced the slurs, the verbal assaults and more…it certainly seems like there was a racial component. Many people may dislike IRRs, yet men tend to act out violently. Reports have said the four men committed numerous other robberies, yet these are the only murders that we know of.
My gut also tells me …even if these murders were motivated by jealousy and racial hatred, I think these four men will not be able to admit it.
Gina, thank you for posting this.
I’m in total shock right now. I go to school in Los Angeles but on the holiday breaks I go back home to San Diego. Vacations are the times I use to visit with my friends who are in the military. My best girlfriend is a student at the Naval Academy, and we hang out with our Marine friends, some of them white men at places like Camp Pendleton and MCMS (another Marine base.)
I wonder if those four men had seen me and my friend with a bunch of white marines and assumed that we were “together”—would they have come after us?
That’s a terrifying thought. Thanks again for posting this.
For a long time, I avoided linking to ir blogs not out of fear but because I didn’t think it was important. I will most certainly link to them out of blatant defiance against those who try to intimidate and out of respect to the late couple.
As someone in an IRR, this is scary.
I’m not even going to wonder about Al Sharpton, et al. they are a non issue (by now) in these types of cases.
This is so sad…
I’ve been in a IRR for almost 4 yrs. He’s a former marine as well. In my neighborhood there are numerous IRR around. My community is diverse. I don’t get many stares nor incidents of inappropriate behavior. In fact I got more during the 20 yrs that I was married because I’m very fair and my ex was dark skinned.
This crime and any like it is an outrage- may they pay the penalty of their hatred.
There are people who definitely don’t like interracial relationships or marriage, but for some reason, they have a special antipathy for black women who do this. All you have to do is go to youtube and see the number of videos condemning black women for dating/marrying outside of their race.
When I saw this news story yesterday, my heart fell into my stomach. I flashed back 29 years to when I was an active duty Marine married to another Marine. We were stationed at Camp Pendleton. Because we were an interracial couple, there were people there both on base and off who made our lives hell on earth. We were harrassed and we even received death threats over the telephone! Even up to 10 years after we divorced, I still had people criticizing me for getting married to a white man in the first place.
I spent most of yesterday and the better part of today in tears thinking of this beautiful young newlywed couple whose lives were snuffed out by jealous low life racist scum terrorists who dare to call themselves Marines! To me, they’ve lost that right to call themselves that. I hope that either they get the death penalty or they get sent to Leavenworth. Either way, after their lives are done, I hope they all rot in hell!
Thank you for stating what the military, the media and law enforcement officals refuse to admit…that the murder of Sgt Pietrzak and his wife Quiana was a blatant and intentional HATE CRIME! I, too, wrote about this my own blog. If you ask me, EVERY blogger in the blogosphere should be blogging about this. We who are in interracial relationships can no longer afford to be complacent or to isolate ourselves…or pretend that hatred agaisnt us doesn’t exist in 2008! We who value personal freedoms and the basic human right to marry and found families whom we wish regardless of color need to DEMAND that justice be served in this case.
I think the NYT article below says it all.
“Strained by the demands of a long war, the Army and the Marine Corps recruited significantly more felons into their ranks in 2007 than in 2006, including people convicted of armed robbery, arson and burglary, according to data released Monday by a House committee.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/22/washington/22waiver.html
My prayers go out to all the families, involved. It is truly a sad story.
Dia, these are the very “loopholes” that people look for to avoid the truth. There is no “conjecture” here. It is obvious to anyone with a brain this crime was motivated by jealousy, racial hatred and the sense that these “men” wanted to punish these two for being married to each other, despite being of different races. If there are no provisions for violence against interracial or cross-cultural families under hate crime laws, then maybe we need to start petitioning for such.
What a messed-up world we live in when people who love each other can’t just be free to be. The “men” who did this don’t deserve to be called men. They are bottom-feeding scum of the earth and deserve the harshest punishment they can get.
My condolences go out to the families of the victims.
So totally agree gem2001. Where’s Al and cousin Mr. Rainbow Coalition?
Hell they damn near tore down Louisianna fighting for those boys!
One of the big problems I have with the uproar over this being a hate crime or not is that we had/have a similar uproar over the murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. White people, are outraged that hate crime charges are not being filed and this is on top of the trend by many whites to want any crime committed against a white person by a black person to be deemed a hate crime. It just doesn’t work like that.
Now on sites like this, the Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom case is not mentioned or at least not mentioned often. Why is this? I suspect that it is because the victims were white and one of the participants in the crime is a black woman.
Hence we have people only being outraged when those they advocate for are victimized and desiring “hate crime” charges only for those victims.
As far as hate for IR sites, I have personally not witnessed any threats, though I figure that strong moderation may have something to do with this. I do read criticisms of such blogs, but that is a far cry from “threats”. But this is the internet. There are internet warriors all over the place. White nationalists/supremists are all over the internet, yet you practically never meet these people in ‘real life’ or at least hear people in real life make such comments as they tend to do. Atheists are all over the internet, yet in real life, most folks are religious. So the internet tends to not represent real life.
As far as Myspace, while some will claim that those black men are spouting hate, others will claim that the IR blogs are doing the same thing. It is simply two sides of an unfortunate gender war that I consider very immature. We could do better but choose not to.
This is disgusting. I first heard of this story yesterday and it broke my heart. These vile so called Marines deserve nothing less then the death penalty. I too have seen some of the responses on other black sites claiming that this is being blown out of porportion and then going into tales of so and so down the block who got shot up and it was probably drugs, and that makes me sick. It appears the only so called “crime” committed was an intelligent beautiful young black woman was married to a white officer and these mother… called themselves upset. If it was alll about a robbery, they could have hit the house when they weren’t home. Or wore masks. But no, it was a home invasion. She was tortured and sexually assaulted with an instrument and by at least three of the “suspects”. No doubt in front of her husband while racial slurs were used. And this happened on October 15 and just now this is starting to get some press?
And don’t expect any of the so called black “leaders” to say a single word about this case, because frankly they don’t care. A number of so called black leaders only further their own agendas and those of black male dominance over females. If Sharpton and Messy Jesse do get involved it will be to protect these scumbags that committed the crime…believe it.
Lakeview Terrace reminded us that in the wake of Something New, there are black men who would resort to violence in order to put interracially married black women back in their place. It is a shame that this story of the beautiful young couple did not end in the same way Lakeview Terrace did, with the death of the scum who threatened them!
Dia, I find your reasoning a little faulty. You state that because you see lots more hate on the internet than people are willing to express to each others’ faces in real life means that the internet does “not to represent real life”. I think the conclusion drawn should be just the opposite - on the internet people are telling you what they really feel (i.e., what they wouldn’t have the courage to say to your face). Just like in real life no-one is ever racist (it’s always “the other guy” who’s racist).
@ Dia
Let us not think that because people who hold racist views are not heard from often in public they do not exist. Many of these people are uncomfortable to speak up in public, so they have they internet.
As for religion. I am an atheist and I don’t speak up often because it upsets my family, not because I don’t stand firm in my beliefs. Yet I can rattle on and on about it on the internet to you guys
Oh…am I crazy. I thought I posted this, if I have, my apologies. But thought this interesting.
“Strained by the demands of a long war, the Army and the Marine Corps recruited significantly more felons into their ranks in 2007 than in 2006, including people convicted of armed robbery, arson and burglary, according to data released Monday by a House committee.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/22/washington/22waiver.html
One more thing…I found the Christian/Newsome murders horrific and I was stunned for a day. I do believe these predators will receive the maximum sentences allowed and they are eligible for the death penalty.
The career criminal who assisted the predators in trying to cover of the crime received 18 years. He is 36 years old and could be released in his 50s, still physically able to commit more crimes.
Yet I do believe Gina created this site to focus on the treatment of black women and girls.
Dia,
Regarding Christian and Newsom, I doubt that very many people on this site or elsewhere have even heard of that case. The horrible truth is, black on white crime is rarely if ever labeled a hate crime. White on Black crime is almost always labeled a hate crime by the masses. To be honest, I feel that the uproar against black on white crime, white on white crime, and even black on black crime is too quiet. The media only cares when a white person commits a crime against a black person…a black man in particular.
Personally, I’m tired of being bombarded with stories about black men getting shot by police officers, on death row, etc. Most killers of young black men and women are black men. But for some “strange reason” those stories don’t sell in the media. Problems can’t be solved until we deal with the sad reality. Blacks are capable of committing racist hate crimes.
Admittedly, this information isn’t terribly important, but I’ll share it anyhow.
To the few commenters hoping to see these vermin dealt with by a military court, that’s unlikely due to the fact that these horrific crimes were committed off-base, outside military jurisfiction. If execution is what these predators deserve, then the civilian court system is where they’d most likely receive such a sentence anyway. The U.S. military hasn’t executed a service member in almost 50 years, and counts only a handful of condemned prisoners among those in its custody. I imagine the Corps will rapidly strip these bottom-feeders of their eminently undeserved military status and leave them to the mercy of the State of California and her criminal justice system. May her gavel relegate these parasites to their rightful place in oblivion.
Oops, that wasn’t an attempt at humor, I meant “jurisdiction” in the first sentence of the second paragraph. Damn my lazy proofreading!
LorMarie said:
“The horrible truth is, black on white crime is rarely if ever labeled a hate crime. White on Black crime is almost always labeled a hate crime by the masses.”
Well, whether or not they are labeled a certain way by “the masses” this is not the case with the legal system. According to this article:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21943
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, blacks make up 12.8 percent of the population — or about 35.4 million of the country’s 280 million people — so, given the arrest rate versus population percentage, the data indicates that blacks are one-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested for a “hate crime” than whites.
So blacks are charged with hate crimes at a higher rate than whites. I don’t know about the masses, but from what I have seen, THE MEDIA tends to place more emphasis on white on black hate crimes and tends to play up race when a violent crime is committed against a black person by a white person. Also consider that Hispanic hate crimes against blacks don’t get a lot of attention by the media. Only hate crimes by whites and the media is controlled mostly by whites.
The teenage black girls who beat the white girls in Long Beach during last year’s Halloween were charged with hate crimes, yet that didn’t get nearly the media coverage had the races been reversed. So the legal system is trying to be somewhat fair, yet the media is clearly biased.
Let us not think that because people who hold racist views are not heard from often in public they do not exist. Many of these people are uncomfortable to speak up in public, so they have they internet.
I agree, but I am skeptical as to whether the general public is represented by the racist comments typical of Youtube. I think that people with radical thoughts tend to be more inclined to express themselves on the internet than folks who are moderate.
As for religion. I am an atheist and I don’t speak up often because it upsets my family, not because I don’t stand firm in my beliefs. Yet I can rattle on and on about it on the internet to you guys.
Yet, if you go to your average message board that is not conservatively based, it seems that easily at least half the Americans express negativity toward religion and the belief in a higher power, yet statistically, 85% of Americans practice religion and 10% more believe in a higher power.
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/atheist-atheism.php
Dia,
The article doesn’t prove that blacks are arrested more for hate crimes as the title claims. First, it’s from 2001 and refers to stats for 1999. What about all years since hate crime legislation came to be? Here is a snippet from the article:
The FBI’s “Hate Crime Statistics” for 1999 show that 2,030 whites were arrested that year for “hate crimes” against blacks, compared to 524 blacks who were arrested and charged with a “hate crime” against whites.
I’m not a math expert but 2,000 is much higher than 500. The article also states this:
“Hate crimes aren’t just for KKK members anymore. They are now being applied even to same-race crimes
and this:
“In light of this study, it’s fair to ask who poses a greater threat to the black community — racist, violent whites or oblivious black politicians?” said Steve Dasbach, the national director for the Libertarian Party.
“The teenage black girls who beat the white girls in Long Beach during last year’s Halloween were charged with hate crimes, yet that didn’t get nearly the media coverage had the races been reversed.”
As they should have been charged that way. I certainly remember hearing about this. I heard more about this case, and Crystal Gail magnums rape claim than I heard about the Wichita Massacre or Dunbar Village. Dia,
The article doesn’t prove that blacks are arrested more for hate crimes as the title claims. First, it’s from 2001 and refers to stats for 1999. What about all years since hate crime legislation came to be? Here is a snippet from the article:
The FBI’s “Hate Crime Statistics” for 1999 show that 2,030 whites were arrested that year for “hate crimes” against blacks, compared to 524 blacks who were arrested and charged with a “hate crime” against whites.
I’m not a math expert but 2,000 is much higher than 500. The article also states this:
“Hate crimes aren’t just for KKK members anymore. They are now being applied even to same-race crimes
and this:
“In light of this study, it’s fair to ask who poses a greater threat to the black community — racist, violent whites or oblivious black politicians?” said Steve Dasbach, the national director for the Libertarian Party.
“The teenage black girls who beat the white girls in Long Beach during last year’s Halloween were charged with hate crimes, yet that didn’t get nearly the media coverage had the races been reversed.”
As they should have been charged that way. I certainly remember hearing about this. I heard more about this case, and Crystal Gail Magnum’s rape claim than I heard about the Witchita Massacre or Dunbar Village.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/index.html
Dia,
The article doesn’t prove that blacks are arrested more for hate crimes as the title claims. First, it’s from 2001 and refers to stats for 1999. What about all years since hate crime legislation came to be? Here is a snippet from the article:
The FBI’s “Hate Crime Statistics” for 1999 show that 2,030 whites were arrested that year for “hate crimes” against blacks, compared to 524 blacks who were arrested and charged with a “hate crime” against whites.
I’m not a math expert but 2,000 is much higher than 500. The article also states this:
“Hate crimes aren’t just for KKK members anymore. They are now being applied even to same-race crimes
and this:
“In light of this study, it’s fair to ask who poses a greater threat to the black community — racist, violent whites or oblivious black politicians?” said Steve Dasbach, the national director for the Libertarian Party.
“The teenage black girls who beat the white girls in Long Beach during last year’s Halloween were charged with hate crimes, yet that didn’t get nearly the media coverage had the races been reversed.”
As they should have been charged that way. I certainly remember hearing about this. I heard more about this case, and Crystal Gail magnums rape claim than I heard about the Witchita Massacre or Dunbar Village.
Everyone has said everything I feel, basically. I saw this tragedy mentioned on a few other blogs that were mostly populated by black males, yet not one give their condolences or showed any type of outcry.
However, I have a strong feeling there would have been more disgust from the black male population and general society if these very black marines did this to a black male/white female couple, for example.
I know this may sound strange and pathetic, but I have this slight paranoid feeling inside that some people in their hearts are trying to find a way to blame the wife .. if for being black and “bringing this on her white husband”. It’s as if people in general are trained to show no remorse or due outcry when black female victims are involved. Makes me depress.
Everyone has said everything I feel, basically. I saw this tragedy mentioned on a few other blogs that were mostly populated by black males, yet not one give their condolences or showed any type of outcry.
But there is an outcry here. There are 56 comments on this tragedy on this site. 7 year old Julian King took two bullets to the head after witnessing the murder of his grandmother and uncle. He received 8 comments from you guys.
So lets not talk about consistency in outrage.
From Evia Moore
I’m sure she WAS taunted before they killed her. I’m sure she was taunted even before she married him with “sell-out” “traitor” and a few other favorites, just as many of us interracially married black women are–before and after marriage.
Well, to be fair, my brother once dated a white woman and more than a few black women made references to him as a traitor and a sell-out. This is equally common for both genders in the black community. Folks should just let other people live their lives. If you are not with the person, why are you concerned with who the person is with?
God rest the souls of the victims and may justice strike hard on the killers.
Phantomare I am so glad that you finally showed this case!
I live in London in the UK at the moment but I am moving to the US in 2009 where I wish to do more or work with people already doing it.
I am glad that there are websites such as Black and Missing the blog and also Black and Missing Inc. who deal with reporting of missing black victims who may have been exploited and/or murdered, but it’s time all black people and most definitely the black journalists put extreme pressuer on the mass media, the older mass media news of television, radio. newspapers, and magazines to put out the faces, background information, and the full story of black women and girls who are exploited, violated, murdered, and/or missing!
Come on people! After the civil rights struggle when black people barely had human rights and were hunted down like pigeons and yet they still fought to change the laws that were holding them down, after all of the cases against racism from the law enforcement and the police brutality and every other protest or pro-active action that you can name that black people did to bring us to a higher quality of life through our history in the US, in 2008 almost 2009 a BLACK WOMAN can’t get the proper justice she deserves after violation or even from beyond the grave if that’s the sad outcome?
Because not even her ‘own kind’ wants to put her pictures and her story in the media and say to the world ‘Please look out for this face’ or ‘She has family who are looking for her and please contact them at etc. etc.’?
Heck even before Obama’s win but regardless of it that’s the point a black man can become president but nobody wants to put violated, murdered, and/or missing black women on the radar, on the map?!
Why aren’t black people putting pressure on the law enforcement about this issue? Where is the K-9 Unit, the SWAT team, the FBI etc. when it comes to finding the missing black women and girls? I thought tax dollars paid for this kind of thing, so what black people don’t pay any kind of TAX?
When the Runaway Bride from Georgia fled a whole gang of tax dollars went into K-9 Units, and FBI, and the this and the that from the town law enforcement went high and low to look for a white woman that WANTED TO BE GONE!
But why haven’t black people in 2008 demanded that the law enforcement do the same for their ‘own kind’?
If it comes down to ‘Versus’ situation where it’s down to between a law-abiding black woman just living her life about to be victimized and any criminal black man or any kind of criminal man, whouldn’t you rather the black woman coming out alive? Scathing black self-hatred be damned!
You know what if not NOW as it should be then sooner or later, black women are going to have to go to all the police stations in their neighbourhoods and start a WHOLE new dialog and relationship with the police! Yes! That is the only way as only the police can arrest somebody, detain them, and throw away the key so that the DBRs are out of your face.
Black women have claimed to feel the same racism and the guilt about black men from the police and their brutality and racial profiling. Black women have sisded with the black men about those issues and cliamed that the police were not receptive to their needs and and said that the cops just wanted to put every black man in jail. But black women are going to have to go to the police and tell them that we are willing to do ANYTHING to keep black women and girls from being violated, murdered, attacked, stalked, or kidnapped, ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING, and we are going to have to ask the police what is the best way to go about preventing that and ask of the police what they plan on doing to protect and help black women in all areas, not only in the high-risk disadvantaged areas.
Black women I think are going to have to demand more surveillance of their neighbourhoods from the police.
Black women are going to have to go to the ploice with a new attitude, a strong attitude but one that is receptive and calm, and we have to be willing on our part to tell the police everything and anything about what we’ve seen or heard when it comes to a crime against black women and girls. We have to snitch as it’s called. How are the police going to help us out without the info? If the police suspect that somebody among us knows something about a case and they suspect that we don’t want to tell them, they’ll just forget about the whole thing because that looks like we’re wasting their time. Don’t we need them?
And it’s sad that the DBR bm have to push bw to this point but black women may ONE DAY have to demand the sad horror of horrors the actual RACIAL PROFILING. To track down the DBR suspects who are in hiding or who that nobody wants to ’snitch’ on after they hurt or kill black women and girls.
I hate to say that it has to come down to a practice that will lump in all the good black men with the DBR ones, but if that’s what it comes down to to stop black women from being attacked and killed in such high numbers especially when no-one wants to shape up and fly right or fight for the side of black women’s safety, justice, and well-being, the SO BE IT.
MAYBE this will be the push that will make these good black men as their called force the DBR ones to fix up now, or call the police and hand them over so they don’t have to be lumped in, as opposed to any ‘innocent bystander’ posings.
It should never come down to that but what am I supposed to think when nobody seems to give a darn?
Black people may need to be prepared to put up any money they have saved up as a reward too because money is the incentive and may help a kidnapped victim get home faster, or get the suspects arrested quicker.
Black people who have kidnapped female relatives and loved-one need to harass and harass the local and national tv stations, radio stations, and the press and make them MAKE your black female missing loved-one the news. Make them take her face and her story and background as the news for the next five years if necessary.
I mean the Jon Benet thing will NEVER die! I’m living in the UK where the little Madeleine ‘Maddy’ thing kept going for a while and only just died down because of the US elections and the rest of real life.
But black women have to work TOGETHER with law enforcement in a pro-active way and let them know that you seriously want to find justice for black women, find the missing black women dead or alive, and to help clear up the neighbourhoods and watch over them. This will mean dialog and folllowing some advice from the ploice and we have to be willing to receive it and follow up on it if what the law enforcement suggests is the best way.
When I lived in Florida, the Police Benevolence Fund would always call up the house once if not twice a year looking for donations towards their officers. Is there any benevolence towards us yet? Are you a black womman or black man who’s given to the funds before? Then make these cops work for the darn thing then if they really want to protect you!
And we black women ourselves are going to have to approach the cops to say ‘Look we need your help, black women need to be protected from murder, rape, kidnapping in our area, how can you advise us?’ Make them look for your mssing and possibly exploited black women and girls. If black women don’t make the victimized black women visible and audible, no one will and no one will vever be made to remember or care without our input.
There may not be any other input.
We need to go to Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, NAACP etc. and say ‘You must publicly speak out and protest about the media avoiding the stories of missing and exploited black women and girls NOW!’
Black women also have stop being selfish, and self-absorbed feeling that they don’t have to be concerned with this kind of thing just because it hasn’t happened to them or their loved ones YET, or because they think they ‘won’t be grabbed up so easily or raped or murdered because they’re not stupid and hanging out in the wrong places’.
All these predators see are bw they don’t care qhich one it is they’ll pick you when they’re ready, and you’re not invincible. And by then it’s too late to care,and to care only when it’s finally your butt on the line even though it happened to black women all around you.
And the lowest of the low the black women who hate, berate black women, and say ’she got what she deserved and she asked for it because she dressed like etc,. went over to his house late etc., shouldn’t be out there at that time of night etc., shouldn’t let a man do that to you etc.’
When trouble comes knocing on their door and makes a victim of them, their children, their mother, or their grandmother, then they’ll finally see which black women are always no good and deserve whatever life throws at them.
Black women with the un-sisterly like ways like those described above are the ones who are not active and supportive of cleaning up the streets and finding justice as far as black women are concerned until things happen to only them and then for the luck ones you may see their female and male relatives join together and grieve with them or for them, but if the right healthy environment was created and maintained for black women to walk around and function in, in the first place they wouldn’t have to deal with crimes happening to them with nobody coming to their aid to catch their perportrator, help to get their story reported, or even too have these attacks committed so frequently.
If we want ourselves, our victimized black women and girls, our justice, our stories, our faces, our self-worth to be on the radar WE have to PUT it on the radar if it’s not on there.
The case of the Pietrzak couple murder happened in the middle of October and we are just now hearing about it in the middle of November. You can’t blame that all on just the election news either!
Sorry about the Phantomare part!
Yeah sorry for the horrible typos!
This is a horrible thing to happen and all four of these men are quite sick but let’s not identify Obama or black people with these four lunatics. Sounds like these men could have at some point been connected to gang activity in their life and no-one can understand the atrocities of the acts of gang members and those associated with them. Look at how the gang members executed those students in New Jersey. Sounds very similar! I hope these four never see the light of day again! GOD bless the families of the victims.
I never said I identify the likes of those four with Obama or any black man that wants to live and let live at the same time with respect, but this ’serial killing’ of black women is car-azy!
As a women who’s been in an interracial marriage for 10 years, with biracial children, if you want to see hate from both sides, welcome to my world.
I was used to receiving evil looks from people who didn’t share my skin color. I wasn’t used to getting them from people who looked like me and claimed to share my heritage.
My own new private joke, people who chant Obama, the product of an interracial marriage, and still cling to a hate of people of another race (you pick one) thats frightening.
You want real excitement, try choosing a church in a small town. Try teaching your children to ignore bad looks and snide remarks “when” they’re old enough to notice them. This wasn’t my life before I got married. But, apparently it was just another wedding gift.
Was it a hate crime? You betcha. Did they want to punish her? No doubt. How dare she marry the man she loved and who asked her?
I’ve got an aunt to this day who “can’t forgive me”.
Stand in line, lady.
Just to let you know, today I wrote an email to the Southern Poverty Law Center and also to the Loving Day organization re: this crime against the Pietrzak family. I got an email from the SPLC promising to refer my letter to their leaders. Hopefully, now some in the organized civil rights community will speak up and take action. I figure it’s not much, but it’s better than doing nothing, right?
Hello,
As much as people want to CLAIM that this was not a hate crime …it was. This was an interracially married couple killed by men of color… YES…race was a factor.
Let’s start telling the truth about this crime.
She was raped brutally - which is another act of hatred. Then both were killed in a heinous manner.
My prayer go forth for those who knew and loved this couple.
Black people who are in denial about the extent of racial hatred in our nation…let this be a wake up call….YES…racism still exists in this country…eventhough we elected a biracial man as president.
SMH…..I don’t know what to say, really. Ummm…my condolences to the families. SMH…..um…may they R.I.P.
This case has me wondering about the rape (and murder) cases of women soldiers. Had these guys gone about attacking women soldiers, weren’t prosecuted for it, and felt emboldened when they came back here? Is this the windfall we’re to expect from the military doing nothing about the criminal behavior of their soldiers against the women who serve as well?
Goldenah good point these Marines and others in the armed forces just like them were definitely the type to harass and rape female soldiers, oh yes! But you see how the military always protects male soldiers though!
The dastards!
blackwomenblowthetrumpet, I agree with you.
actually instead of it being a hate crime, I would prefer that they are indicted by a military tribunal. I hope that they are being tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) where the penalties and sentences are stiffer (for murder in the 1st degree it is a death sentence no if’s and’s or but’s).
unfortunately, the news have not mentioned who has indicted these cowards.
At first I assume this was a hate crime. But since one of the victims was the boss to a couple of the perpetrators, this had me formulate another possible reason: revenge killing. Maybe he snapped at them or barked an order and they couldn’t take it so plotted to kill him for it. Race probably played a factor too but perhaps it wasn’t the initial catalyst.
Let the facts speak…
Black men in sub-ordinate position to white man.
White man marries attractive black woman.
Black men brutally murder couple, rape woman in their new home.
I’m hearing that at least two of the killers worked for one of the victims. That wouldn’t surprise me, given the level of apparent rage displayed in these murders.
I still think the murderers knew at least one of the victims very well, and that there was some bad blood between them. I also don’t think the IRR was the primary motivation; probably wasn’t helpful, but something else went down, and the robbery was a front.
I’m sure this is embarassing to the US military, esp. when recruitment is at an all-time low, and there are other cases of marines killing each other.
This a truly sad and tragic occurrence, but this knee jerk reaction that this is a “hate crime” is confusing.
I just have one question on what basis SPECIFIC to this case is that claim being made?
People have certain preconceptions that can get in the way of dealing with reality.
You see examples of this all the time in politics, where someone’s ideological beliefs are SO strong that they arrive at preconceived conclusions no matter what the evidence.
Example, the Bush administration and the War in Iraq.
I am not attacking anyone’s character, but I think that some readers of this blog have a certain view of interracial dating in terms of black women, and they have some very STRONG opinions about black men and the black community in general regarding both their treament of black women, and their displeasure at bw who date ir.
This TRULY tragic story, if you inject racial hatred, LENDS itself to support that narrative.
Do what most people don’t do, and that is be rational, open minded, don’t graft your perconceptions or personal experiences on to people you don’t know.
iamme73 saidThis a truly sad and tragic occurrence, but this knee jerk reaction that this is a “hate crime” is confusing.
I just have one question on what basis SPECIFIC to this case is that claim being made?This TRULY tragic story, if you inject racial hatred, LENDS itself to support that narrative.
First, almost anytime I hear of a particularly brutal crime involving TORTURE and people of different races whether white on black, black on white, hispanic on black, black on hispanic, white on hispanic, asian on hispanic, it crosses my mind that there may have been a racial component to the crime. That doesn’t make it a hate crime, but lends itself to additional motivation.
That’s called deductive reasoning. it is not as beyond the pale of imagination as you attempt to make it.
The fact that the police are almost ignoring any potential racial component is what lead me to wonder aloud if that may have been a motivation or an aspect of this crime. It is not an irrational or illogical conclusion.
You asked what specific facts related to this particular case. First, the mothers of the victims DON’T BELIEVE the law enforcement conclusion that robbery was the motive. They clearly refer to some pretty horrific things being done to these two before they were killed. Including the fact that they made the husband watch them torture his wife and rape her with “an instrument.”
Second, the DA alludes to the fact that these people were both tortured at length prior to being shot, They will not release all the details, but based on these two things including the charges, it is not IMPOSSIBLE or irrational to believe that.
Third, the father of one of the victims said that he heard that race was one of the factors.
So don’t come on here trying to marginalize other people’s instincts. You call it knee jerk. I call it survival. The ability to quickly assess a potential danger and respond. Sometimes that survival instinct leads to incorrect conclusions, sometimes not, but you’d rather be wrong 99% of the time and be right the 1% of the time that allows you to live to see another day.
You demand that people be open minded and rational. I would say that to ignore a possibility that is logical is irrational and closed-minded.
I won’t speak for anybody else who has commented, but I am troubled by your desire to foreclose a racial component as a possibility. I think ignoring a potential racial component is AS DANGEROUS as injecting one.
I have no doubt that with four defendants, all of who have turned on each other and confessed to some aspect of this crime that eventually most of the truth will come out. Until then, your demand that other people suspend logic to ignore what is most obvious to them is CONFUSING.
I forgot to add this article from the NY Daily News(http://tinyurl.com/65fu8j) about a letter the mother wrote pointing out why robbery is an ILLOGICAL conclusion and SOME other motivation other than money is well within the relm of possibility. The readers of the blog aren’t asking these questions, the mother of one of the victims is asking. Here are some of the things she said:
“Their lives were taken in a bestial way,” Pietrzak-Varga wrote in the letter in the Dziennik Wschodni newspaper. “My son’s wife was raped in a bestial way, most likely as my son looked on helplessly.”…If it was a robbery, why didn’t they come when nobody was home instead of in the dead of night - armed to the teeth?” Pietrzak-Varga wrote.
“Why did this happen? What motivated them? What was it about my son and daughter-in-law that inspired such hatred and loathing?”Pietrzak-Varga also said her daughter-in-law’s parents need closure. “They need to know why she, as a soldier’s wife, was killed,” she wrote.
Point of order, I doubt his mother reads this blog. When you are attempting to call EVERYBODY ELSE irrational, you may be the one who needs to motivate their motivation and agendas.
iamme73 wrote:
“I am not attacking anyone’s character, but I think that some readers of this blog have a certain view of interracial dating in terms of black women, and they have some very STRONG opinions about black men and the black community in general regarding both their treament of black women, and their displeasure at bw who date ir.”
I think you are the one coming with preconcieved notions. The story here is about a bw in an irr, yet somehow, you’ve managed to turn it around and accuse any bw on here who is really bothered by this crime and voicing the VERY LIKELY possibility that it was a hate crime as injecting their own issues and ‘certain views’ and ’strong opinions’ on how black women are treated. It is a sad day if the only way another person(especially if you are a black woman) would try and dismiss the very valid opinions of other black women on this board when it involves the case of a beautiful young black woman and her husband being tortued and murdered in such a way. I’m really trying to understand why the ’strong’ negative reation to this story has surprised you so much, and even rubbed you the wrong way. You know, there are some of us out here who don’t want to see a black woman suffer, irrespective of who she fell in love with and married!
_______________________
“This TRULY tragic story, if you inject racial hatred, LENDS itself to support that narrative.”
You’ve got to be kidding me! ‘Inject racial hatred’. Who on this board was doing that. Either you are the type of white person that turns around and accuses a black person of ‘racism’ for pointing out any racism they have experienced, or you are a black man who cannot see through his anger over the fact that this woman’s husband wasn’t black so cannot see that they are both completely innocent victims, or you are a black woman that needs serious help. How is stating that it may have been a bias crime all of a sudden ‘injecting racial hatred’?!
__________________
“Do what most people don’t do, and that is be rational, open minded, don’t graft your perconceptions or personal experiences on to people you don’t know.”
Um, I suggest you do the same!
iamme73, take note of the following comment by gem2001:
“I won’t speak for anybody else who has commented, but I am troubled by your desire to foreclose a racial component as a possibility. I think ignoring a potential racial component is AS DANGEROUS as injecting one.”
I couldn’t explain it to you any better.
Thank you for responding.
I am not saying that asking the question of what was the motivation for this crime is wrong.
I am not saying that it is impossible that race could have had anything to do with this crime.
What I am saying is that coming to the ironclad conclusion that this case IS ABSOLUTELY about race without any real evidence or knowledge is not about the facts of this individual case, but instead reflect a “viewpoint”and ideology if you will about black women in interracial marriage, black men, the black community, and unrelated personal experiences being grafted on to this case.
I think any fair reading of many of the posts shows that.
Once you know that some of these men KNEW each other, and worked together, then LOGICALLY the possible reasons for murder grow exponentially.
The possible reasons why they’d brutalize the wife of the man they had “personal issues” with also becomes apparent.
It is the “personal” connection that can explain the savagery of the crime.
And sadly that beautiful woman could have just been at the wrong place wrong time.
“And sadly that beautiful woman could have just been at the wrong place wrong time.”
iamme73 If two of those creatures worked for Jan Pietrzak then I’m sure they heard from somebody, somewhere that he was married and even heard that his wife was black too.
You MUST know that people at work always gossip a lot about everybody else’s business. Hell they probably even met Quiana or saw her near a base or something, you don’t know.
Let’s see. They pull a gun on Pietrzak and demand he get into his home. They’re all in the house where they torture both as well as rape Ms. Pietrzak. The savages kill the couple.
If there was to be a robbery, wouldn’t they have
a. waited until the couple was not at home so that they would not be noticed?
I mean think about it. Does a thief rob the home of a person he/she knows at gunpoint, without a disguise? Please, they were out to kill.
b. or at least have taken valuables?
If two of those creatures worked for Jan Pietrzak then I’m sure they heard from somebody, somewhere that he was married and even heard that his wife was black too.
You MUST know that people at work always gossip a lot about everybody else’s business. Hell they probably even met Quiana or saw her near a base or something, you don’t know.
iamme:
I am married have children and MANY of my co workers know absolutely nothing about my life, but that is not to say that was the case here.
That is the problem with “speculation” one can literally project any thought, action, attitude, state of mind, belief system on to someone else to justify their conclusions.
So I can speculate that their work environment(military) was such that they didn’t know he was married based on my personal experiences, and you can speculate that where they worked was filled with gossip about who was married to whom.
My point was not to imply that they did or didn’t know that he was married or the race of his wife. I don’t know.
I am trying to point out that by virtue of them knowing and working with one of the victims, that fact expands the possible motives for murder, and that “personal connection” to one of the victims can explain the brutality of the murders.
iamme73 said:
“…And sadly that beautiful woman could have just been at the wrong place wrong time.”
How can you be at the wrong place at the wrong time in your OWN HOUSE? I would hate for people to start routinely using the hackneyed phrase “at the wrong place at the wrong time” for victims who are brutalized in their own homes. In some ways it helps to diminish people’s shock and sympathy for victims. “The wrong place at the wrong time” is usually reserved for individuals victimized in either an isolated or seedy location such as a dark alley way by a strip club or a secluded hiking path. The crime victims victimized in the latter situation actually still receive much sympathy because the typical victims of those crimes are usually the middle-class majority.
First of all, let me state, that I am white and Polish, posting from Warsaw.
I never knew neither Jan Pietrzak, nor his wife, but, being utterly outraged by the heinous crime committed, I cannot help to comment on two issues.
Issue A: why four low rank Marines assaulted another one, together with his wife, in a way that makes Gestapo crooks green with envy? For money? Pietrzaks weren’t rich, he’s reenlisted recently and used the money to do home improvement. The perpetrators left with some insignificant trinkets, not money, and the only jewelry piece stolen I know of was the engagement ring, no doubt forcibly removed from Quiana Pietrzak’s finger.
So, ruling the “official” motive out, what remains? I’m not even going to lower myself to the standards of certain people outside this blog, who have claimed that Pietrzak was abusing Soldiers under his command, or that it was a “drug deal gone bad”. From what I’ve learned, he was a man of character. Thus, we come to a conclusion, and one most people seem to agree upon.
It was a crime of hate, and an inhuman expression of double standards in a racially mixed society.
Because Jan Pietrzak had the gall to woo and marry a black woman, and said woman, Quiana Pietrzak, had the gall to accept him and choose him as her husband, he deserved to be killed as a “woman thief” and she deserved to be violated and killed as a “race traitor”. That’s how the minds of the murderers worked. He’s white, poaching on “our territory”. Kill the cracker and that Aunt Jemima too, they thought. And while we’re at it, let’s have some fun with the bitch, show her whitey husband what’s gangbanging all about. It doesn’t matter that we like to have fun with blondes and Asian girls, that we brag about the amount of white babes, who, using thugspeak, like “dark meat”. Ya take a sistah, ya cracker, and ya dead!
Do you find it sickening? I do. Racism in action, people. And to think some people say only whites are capable of racist thought. Well, here’s an example of black intolerance. And no, no amount of justifying stuff like that with “slavery”, “oppression”, “White Privilege” and other BS will work. Jan Pietrzak was Polish, came to America as a kid, leaving his still turbulent homeland in search of a better future. Was he a descendant of some Southern plantation owner or a slave merchant (most of the latter being either black, or Arab by the way)? Was he treating his subordinates like dirt - gee, he just might, two of them were serving under him, and he had to make sure they work instead of doing nothing like the thugs they were. Was he a beneficent of the fabled “White Privilege”? Him, a man who enlisted after 9/11 because he wanted to repay America for making his life better? Give me a break. The sad truth is that some - not all! - black people can and are just as racist as some - and also not all, contrary to what certain “leaders” of black community might like people to think - white people. The faster African American community approaches this topic with honesty, without hiding behind “slavery” and “white intolerance”, the better. After all, since when two wrongs make a right?
And here we arrive at issue B: where’s the media? Were is the public outcry, the debates on intolerant behavior of some members of black community? That’s right, there are none. Why? Because in media doublespeak, racism happens when a white man oppresses a black one, not the other way around. There’s no Jesse Jackson for white people, and no Al Sharpton for that matter. There’s no White Pride, because should anyone dare to attempt to remove the concept from the hands of loony racialists such as David Duke, he’d be grouped together with them and given a KKK outfit, complete with the hood, wooden cross and a canister of gas. That is why Jan and Quiana Pietrzak will remain unpopular victims - because there’s no story in showing that black people can be just as hateful as white, and that black bigots hate interracial marriages just as white ones do.
Hate to say this Anonymous but you’re right. This was a hate crime and the most shaming thing is that those four beings couldn’t even respect a black woman and her body.
I filmed their wedding 2 months before they were killed.
It is really hard to watch the footage of such a joyous event turned so tragic.
Vengeance is mine, I will repay saith the Lord. My first thought. My second thought is this another example of the savagery of black men. There is no excuse, and the silence of the Black Male Collective against this type of behavior speaks volumes.
As much as people want to CLAIM that this was not a hate crime …it was. This was an interracially married couple killed by men of color… YES…race was a factor.
So if they were killed by men of non-color, that would have made a difference as to whether race was a factor?
I hope justice is served. This is simply horrible.
Vinindy,
“My second thought is this another example of the savagery of black men. ”
Are you calling me a savage? You don’t even know me.
@Anonymous,
“After all, since when two wrongs make a right?”
Who’s defending these murderers? Whatever are you talking about?
“Well, here’s an example of black intolerance. And no, no amount of justifying stuff like that with “slavery”, “oppression”, “White Privilege” and other BS will work.”
Who’s justifying? We’re all glad these guys got caught.
“where’s the media?”
Where’s the Amber Alert, the bloodhounds, helicopters, and heavy media coverage when black girls get abducted?
@ Mod2
First, I am talking about possible ways the murderers themselves might try to weasel out of Death Penalty. After all, such honorless bastards might just try to squeal that racist whiteys want to kill ‘em. Second, unfortunately, the “justify anything a black man does because of slavery and white racism” crowd is still quite vocal. Nation of Islam, rings a bell?
And as for the media, please, do try to look at the whole US media circus in an unbiased manner.. or look up some earlier cases of black on white crimes AND the way the media reported them. Christian/Newsom anyone? And try not to mix up my position on this with people who want to profit on such cases, people like Turner or those subhuman fools from Stormfront et. al.
If a black man cannot respect a black woman or group of black women and have to kill, rape or maim her for any reason or no reason at all then that is what I will always call the ’savagery of black men’. It is still savagery that they had to kill Quiana’s husband as well, not saying that that act wasn’t savage as well.
There’s no sprinkling sugar on this one to make it any sweeter, I have to say what I feel.
We’re a bi-ethnic couple, and neither of us sees any honest need for a special “Hate Crime” designation.
Murder is murder, regardless of the skin color of the victim. Are some of you willing to stand up and claim that
a white male’s death is a lesser evil than the same act
performed on one of us?
When are we going to institute a modern Thought Police, charged with determining the evil thoughts we may have. When will the thoughts themselves become punishable?
This was a horrible, horrible thing to happen, but we can’t let our outrage usher in a new age of control even Hitler would drool to have had.
Ak,
You are right that this was an act of savagery, but it was not ‘the savagery of black men’, but the savagery of these 4 guys, who happened to be black.
When I see black women in the news arrested for hiring hitmen to kill their husbands for 100k life insurance, it never occurs to me to lump all bw into the same category as these few women. I think of it as the savagery of those particular women.
Anonymous,
“Second, unfortunately, the “justify anything a black man does because of slavery and white racism” crowd is still quite vocal. Nation of Islam, rings a bell?”
Now we’ve entered in to the Twilight Zone. The Nation of Islam comprises less than 1% of the black American population, and I don’t hear anyone defending people who kill people execution style.
“And try not to mix up my position on this with people who want to profit on such cases, people like Turner or those subhuman fools from Stormfront et. al.”
Interesting that you mentioned Stormfront (white supremacist group under a new name)……why would you think anyone would mix up your position with them? This is a case of 2 people who loved each other getting murdered, and you mentioned Stormfront, KKK, white pride, and David Duke.
I think you harbor a lot of racial animosity under the guise of caring so much about this case. Would you be on here screaming if this was a black couple that was murdered? Have you ever?
One day I hope to establish a law firm dedicated to litigating cases (like this one) involving hate crimes against BW and their families. It is an OUTRAGE that these DBR ROACHES felt they had the RIGHT to end the lives of this BW/WM couple. The justice system should make an example of THESE WORTHLESS PIECES OF GARBAGE by punishing them WITH THE DEATH PENALTY and sending the clear message that hate crimes against BW WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ANYMORE.
Well well Mod 2 well put there. But will you remember that the next time four white men take set upon a lone black man somewhere and kills him, that that crime would only be a stituation where the savagery was carried out by four men who just happen to be white?
Would I, anybody else who’s black let alone Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, understand or believe that?
Would we even be pacified by that way of thinking?
Please.
ak,
I don’t want to get too far off topic, but when 4 white men kill a black person, you won’t hear a peep out of me or anyone else as long as they get caught and punished, just like these 4 guys who killed this couple.
I don’t think people blame the entire white race for Jeffrey Dahmer, who killed and ate brown people.
The complants arise from the fact that blacks get stiffer sentences than whites for similar crimes.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-and-race/page.do?id=1101091
Take the death penalty, for example. African-American defendants receive the death penalty at three times the rate of white defendants in cases where the victims are white. In addition, killers of white victims are treated more severely than people who kill minorities, when it comes to deciding what charges to bring.
This means that a white person’s life has more value in our society.
Huh those four fools should have thought about what you just wrote actually before killing Jan Pietrzak the way they did come to think of it.
But sadly what you just wrote up there also shows why those four beings killed Quiana. Because they felt that NOBODY would value her nor should value her life nor her person.
That getting rid of just another black woman at least would go under the radar where they felt, and possibly others feel, Quiana belonged!
This is a late post, but:
@ “boboso on 11.07.08 at 7:23 am
More importantly, what in hell is wrong with young people today that they can treat other human beings with such hatred and savagery?”
There have always been people like that, but I would say the culture today certainly fuels the fire when it engages in adulation of self-involvement that has no consideration for one’s obligations to friends, family, community and humanity at large.
@ “boboso on 11.07.08 at 8:04 am
I hope those four maggots receive the full measure of punishment they deserve for snuffing out those two precious lives in such a callous, savage way.”
I’ve read several comments elsewhere that border on wishes vigilante justice (I am not suggesting that is what you meant because I don’t know). What I will say is that while the legal system isn’t perfect, it is better than vigilantism. Of course that conversation opens up another can of worms in relation to the penal system being 99% punitive with not much to speak of in terms of reforming those convicts capable of being reformed.
@ “Dia on 11.09.08 at 12:10 pm
So the legal system is trying to be somewhat fair, yet the media is clearly biased.”
“White”-on-”black” bias motivated attacks and “black”-on-”white” bias motivated attacks have both been occurring in the States since the founding of the US. I think the media tends to focus on “white”-on-”black” bias motivated harm simply because of its historical predominance/empowerment, the same way the media tends to focus on “male”-on-”female” hatred more than on “female”-on-”male” hatred, even though both exist, because of the historical predominace/empowerment of misogyny as opposed to misandry.
@ “no one special on 11.12.08 at 4:02 am
…since one of the victims was the boss to a couple of the perpetrators, this had me formulate another possible reason: revenge killing.”
Did the sergeant sexually assault and murder the four mens’ girlfriends/wives (not that that would justify the harming/murdering of yet another innocent)? We could psychologically dissect this tragedy and never reach a truly 100% satisfactory conclusion, but at its core I am sure the dynamics (history of resentments, etc) of skin colour were a primary factor.
In terms of “interracial” dating, which is actually intraracial anyway, admittedly viewed through the lens* of my own experiences and observations, I would say there is a double standard. Most if not all “interracial” couples suffer slings and arrows, but some meet with more acceptance than others. “Black”-white” “interracial” couples where the man and woman are from well-to-do families will generally have an easier time of it, and “black”-”white” couples where the man is “black” and the woman is “white” generally meet with less societal antipathy than the reverse pairing.
*[If in this day and age you hold to the biologically unsound construct of "race", I would be labelled "white" or "caucasian". But my genetic line has seen changes in skin colour, languages, the rise and fall of religions and empires. Humankind started in Africa, it's just a matter what travels and travails different individuals/families/tribes/groups have endured since then, but we are all definitely still of the same race (i.e. subspecies).]
Let’s call this for what it is; a “HATE CRIME.” The dead Marine was a white male and his beautiful wife was black. The four suspects are black. Could you imagine if the husband had been black, the wife white, and the four suspects white? There would be riots in the streets across our nation. The truth needs to be told and justice needs to be carried out.
and… since when it was a robbery? Robbers when caught usually try to disarm the person who is defending his/her place, and make a quick run with stolen goods. They do not stay and torture household members.
There is nothing lower than death penalty for those people. Nothing lower. I would like Obama to do something about it. Apparently the change has come.
Just hearing any of this makes me sick.. i can’t believe any person would do that to another human being..
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