John McCain is poised to select Alaska Governor, Sarah Palin to be his Vice Presidential running mate. This was a game changer. McCain is taking all of the oxygen out of the newsrooms this morning.
McCain is doing what Obama supporters should have done this week in Denver at the Democratic National Convention. The Republicans are doing what Republicans do… whatever it takes to win the White House. Its cynically pitting the hopes and aspirations of Black folks against those of White women who vote… here is an FYI, White women voters outnumber us!
Let me be clear instead of being frosty to the Hillary supporters and trying to truncate their mourning this week at the Democratic National Convention, and that is what it was, mourning for a woman that has been in the public eye for almost 20 years. This week Obama supporters should have been gang tackling Clinton supporters and killing them with kindness. They should have been demanding the Clinton supporter’s phone numbers and emails and scheduling dinners and lunches. There were lots of hard elbows thrown this week especially in the California delegation. I have the back story on why California passed during the roll call. Oh yeah and you remember Arkansas saying all of its votes went for Obama… that didn’t happen either. I am staying at the hotel with the Arkansas delegation and listened to the conversations on Wednesday night on the ride back to the hotel.
Why do I place the onus on Obama supporters and not Clinton supporters to make the overtures to mend the rift? A) Because as the winner, it didn’t cost you anything to be kind to those who lost, even if you thought they were sore losers and B) You need the PUMAS, the PUMAS don’t need the Obama acolytes. As far as some of the Clinton supporters are concerned, their election is over.
I interacted with many Hillary supporters this week and most were not the rabid people that CNN handpicked out of the crowd, but normal women and men who were nice enough.
For the past four days, I’ve been on crowded Airport shuttles, lightrail, air conditioned motor coaches packed with delegates . Tuesday, at the end of my long commute back into the city on the light rail, I couldn’t bear the prospect of riding yet another incredibly slow shuttle to the Convention Center, I decided to splurge on a cab ride. I spied a man wearing a convention credential who didn’t look like a serial killer so when we reached our stop I asked him if he was going to the Pepsi Center and whether he wanted to share a cab. I wanted to split the $5 cab fare (yes, I am incredibly cheap).
I didn’t know that he was a Clinton supporter, but when the light rail got to the Convention Center stop, I asked him if he wanted to share a cab. Not because he was a Clinton supporter, but because I am cheap and wanted to split the $5 fare.
The truth is that Hillary Clinton supporters are not fork tongued cloven-hooved demons that some Obama supporters make them out the be. The Clinton supporter I shared a cab with was an African American man. He told me about his experience in his journey to become a delegate at the Democratic national Convention. He told me about Black Obama delegates calling him an Uncle Tom and a House Negro at the Nevada state Democratic convention. He also stated that Clinton’s speech would be his closure and when he returned home he was going to work hard to elect Barack Obama. I wasn’t interviewing him for a post, we were just having a conversation. I had a similar exchange with a Clinton supporter on the shuttle ride back to my hotel.
When I arrived in Denver, I ended up on a crowded and perpetually lost airport shuttle to my hotel. It was packed with Obama supporters, including someone who was a member of the media. As we spoke about how exciting it was to be there, the conversation soon gave way to whether Hillary Clinton was going to pull some Machiavellian move at the convention and use the roll call vote to somehow steal the nomination from Obama. For well over an hour in the hot blazing sun, trapped on a van driven wildly by a navigationally challenged driver I listened to these Obama supporters go on and on.
Finally because I was tired of their conspiracy theories, highly ticked at the driver who wasn’t quite sure how to get to any of our hotels, and hungry because I didn’t calculate a 2 hour ride to my hotel, I finally cracked. I yelled that there was no way on earth that Hillary Clinton was going to steal the nomination at the convention! Why? Because the modern presidential campaign in the country costs at least a quarter of a billion dollars and massive organizing. Even if Hillary Clinton was a political strategic genius, a possibility narrowed significantly by the fact that she lost the Democratic primary, if Hillary were to suddenly hatch a plot to take the nomination away from Obama at the convention, she would be too broke to mount any credible campaign against John McCain. In case you didn’t notice, last I heard she was $20 Million dollars in debt and had not paid many vendors. That is not the signs of a a viable presidential campaign two months out from the general election.
I told Black Achievement last night that Republicans will do whatever they have to to gain and retain power. Some may call it politically calculating. I call it winning. By selecting Sarah Palin McCain is doing two things,h e is peeling off some of those 18 million cracks in the ceiling. As the VP Sarah Palin would be in line to be the first woman president should McCain win. Second, he is expanding his base. He can’t count on movement conservatives, he decided to stake his claim with White women. In addition, Sarah Palin has a COMPELLING personal story that is going to appeal to women. 80% popularity rating in Alaska.
The Republicans have been on the ground here in Denver. They even threw parties for Clinton supporters. They did what Obama acolytes should have done. Y’all should have thrown something everyday just for Clinton supporters. I have no doubt that McCain made this choice based on the intel he got from Denver.
Listen accolytes. Don’t waste time whining and complaining and gnashing of the teeth. Go find your Clinton delegates and have a house party. Bury your Clinton animus. That race is over. This election will not be based on commercials or the airwaves, this will be a fight on the ground. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. In an electorate that is split 50/50 this might be enough to put McCain over the top no matter how many Black folks register to vote.
I have been saying for months that it is fine to support a candidate, but making th supporters of your candidate’s opponent the enemy is stupid. Calling them names is politically stupid. Attacking anyone who disagrees with you is politically stupid. YOU may love your candidate, but don’t assume that because someone isn’t enraptured with your candidate that they won’t vote for them.
You always have to leave open the door of reconciliation because you might need them later. Go find a PUMA and hug them today. Oh yeah and if you think about attacking the qualifications of Sarah Palin, good luck with THAT strategy! She’s a governor. The only one in this race. She’s the only one on either of the tickets that has ever had to run a branch of government. Oh yeah and good luck helping Biden try to attack a woman that just gave birth a few months ago.
Sorry, I am a political junkie and this is going down as one of the most interesting political chess matches in recent history. Finally the Democrats look like they have a winning strategy and then here comes the McCainiac who is swinging right back. These campaigns are evenly matched. Obama vs Palin and Biden vs. McCain. Oh the next few weeks are going to be fun, fun, fun!
200 comments ↓
I hope that in the end the Hillary supporters consider what and who they are ultimately agreeing to and not just the gender of the persons that are running on the ticket. That is all that any supporter of Obama can ask for. If McCain is pres-pres umm, got something caught in my throat there, but you know what position I mean, I will do what I was taught to do long ago – hunker down and make it through. At the END of the day, to me, that is THE choice. Will it be Obama or McCain? If the PUMA’S cannot see beyond their anger to that truth, then hey, whatever will be will be. I urge them to speak up about the real injustices that they feel occured and get them straightened out. I also urge them to look at the bigger picture and ask how do they want the next 4 years to go. That is ALL I or any other Obama supporter can ask.
hahaha Nikita, you are making my point. Republicans are overtly reaching out to Clinton supporters. BLATANTLY. They have been here all week courting them. For you to say “they need to get past their anger and get straightened out” is exactly the sentiment Obama delegates have had this week and the Republicans see that.
Go hug a PUMA today. Seriously. How far are you willing to go to win? the republicans are willing to go so far as to attend the Democrat’s condition and woo Democrats, but Democrats don’t feel the need to woo members of their own party.
Like I said. go hug a PUMA today. Don’t let pride lose you this election
Gina,
To borrow a phrase from my grandmother, “you peed” for this post! When I got the announcement on my phone, I was stunned but also had to tip my hat to McCain. I am an Obama supporter, but what Obama thinks McCain didn’t get – he got. Women comprise the majority of the electorate.
McCain has also taken control of the media narratives that would have been Obama’s for a week or two had he selected some boring person. Sarah Palin does have some chinks in her armor though and if Ted Stevens goes down for ethics violations, it may complicate her candidacy as McCain’s VP.
I don’t see the Obama Camp attacking her credentials as much as I see them using the inexperience argument against her. This is gonna be FUN!
BTW, I’ll hug any PUMA that isn’t that lily white queen who started the movement. I just plain don’t like him. *LOL*
Gina I wanted to go the tribute but I had a community credential and it took me hours to get into Invesco. It was a freakin’ nightmare. Be glad you had the preferential entrance. It took me almost 4 hours to get out and I left 15 minutes before the end of Barack’s speech. Ugh!
I wasn’t pleased with Obama’s pick of Vice President but figured it was to shore up older white voters. Your perspective on McCain’s choice of VP is spot on. And it’s weird because I have been attending the non-DNC events with Cynthia McKinney, Recreate 68 and Progressive Democrats of America. There’s more disgruntled people out there than the so-called PUMAs.
Am I an Obama supporter? Yeah…but it’s conflicted. I really want Michelle Obama as First Lady! I don’t want McCain. I feel like Obama has capitulated to white interests too much. Which would go back to you saying this election became an expression of the political aspirations of Black people. Being First Lady would be a powerful position for a Black woman and that touches on your comment on getting power.
So I don’t know. I feel that way about the blogosphere as well. But then I look to you and you’ve set another example by starting your own conference. You’ve made it look so easy and natural. Thanks for your posts!!!
By the way, the only celebrity I saw was Walter Moseley who was trying to push past the surge of crowds to get back into Invesco it seemed.
I dont know about anyone else but five kids one of which she just gave birth to four months ago (forget) that the child has special needs)
First thing out of my mouth was who is going to see about the four at home while she is VP’g?
I know the Hills supporters are mourning but I hope people can really look at what is going on here.
I’m concerned about the children and how she is going to VP and mother in the white house at the same time.
Don’t get me wrong loads of us do it all the time I’m doing it right now but look I ain’t trying to run a country either.
THIS is going to be interesting.
I will not hug or be fake to a puma. Actually stats prove they are a sham and that they have over-exaggerated their numbers. I am with the first poster. All I can do is pray and hope that Americans have learned their lesson from the last 8 years. It’s so bad that I am going to let go and let God and I am no longer interested in following this dog and pony show. It almost seems like they are playing with our lives and after all americans have been through, it seems too much. If I followed any further, I’d have a stroke.
If God wills it, Obama will win. if not, then we have severely pissed Him off.
Seattle Slim, the PUMAS may be a sham, but TRUST less rabid supporters are out there
Seatlle slim he only needs 10,000 votes to shift in one state or the other and that could change the outcome.
UM seattle slim the reason they passed on California was because 160 something delegates from there were voting for Hillary. Believe that they are a fringe element at your own peril.
Wrldiva, if she was a MAN would you be wondering who is staying home taking care of the kids???? THAT is a trap you are walking right into. That kind of question will be viewed as sexist
Don’t forget that McCain had alienated conservative Republicans. Especially a lot of known evangelicals loudly said that they would wait to see who he picked for veep. He was playing with the idea of nominating a pro-choice candidate for veep. What I have heard about her, she is hardcore conservative, especially fiscally and dealing with the abortion issue.
McCain probably made the first decision that I feel was a smart move. I do not have cable but I may subscribe to MobiTV the next couple of months to watch the cable channel. I absolutely agree that the smartest thing the Obama campaign can do is reach out to the Hilary supporters. I have watched videos online where good sincere Hilary supporters felt like Obama and his campaign arrogantly dissed them and that they do not count. The fact that half the states were not allowed to participate in the roll call probably made that feeling worse. This is very smart move for McCain.
I absolutely agree with Gina’s analysis.
The political junkie in me gives a relunctant hat tip to McCain for this really deft move. He’s catering to disgruntled PUMAs, white women who “aren’t sure” about Obama, and the ever-popular “family values” people. The “everyday” me is sick of the pundits, the politicking, the blogosphere, the radio call-in shows, the campaign commercials, the one-upmanship… This is an important election, but dog n’ pony show of it all is what turns people off to politics when they don’t see any change in their everyday lives.
Pamela he got a two-fer. He shore up and fired up his conservative base AND he took aim at Hillary supporters.
Obama supporters just can’t think rationally when it comes to Clinton supporters. They keep coming up with reasons why they don’t matter. Electoral suicide.
GO. HUG. A. PUMA. TODAY!
gina,
Your post is so on time. Very few people are watching and listening everyone wants to talk. Republicans fight to win for the team, Demos fight each other!
Actually, Gina, I was surprised that Obama chose Biden—-an old man who is thouroughly entrenched in Capitol Hill—-for his running mate. Although, I was not surprised that he chose a white person. I thought that Obama would choose, if not Hillary, that he would choose some other white woman. Or that he would choose the white Hispanic governer of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.
Good Morning: I must humbly disagree on some fronts. The PUMAS are so far-out radical…they want Hillary and only Hillary. Plus, there just aren’t that many of them…no matter how much they yell and scream.
It will get out that 1) ready to be Prez on Day One? 2) she does NOT care about most of the issues that most women want…yes there are some very conservative women out there, but they were voting McCain anyway. Middle of the road and liberal women will NOT like her ultra-conservative stands.
3 words: Supreme Court Justices!
And as one of Hillary’s staunchest Congressional supporters said this morning: “I know Hillary Clinton, and she is no Hillary Clinton!” It is insulting to think that McCain thinks that women are “interchangeable”…
Just like Obama had to PROVE himself before Black people flocked to him, there are a lot of women who will vote issues over gender…
Plus, people ALWAYS vote for the top of the ticket…it always has been and will continue to be Obama vs McCain…
When I heard a woman was chosen as VP (I’d never heard of her before today), my first thought was, “Ohhhh… clever bastard!” It isn’t dumb.
So hell yeah, I’d hug a PUMA. I may personally believe that they need to get over it, but I can sure keep my mouth shut and be friendly to encourage party unity. When your best friend gets dumped, do you tell her “sucks, but you’re better off”, or do you buy a tub of ice cream and hang out with her all night while she cries?
@Wrlddiva — she’s already running Alaska with 5 kids. Are you also equating any male politicians with absent fathers? Come on. Working mothers should give her props since we understand the hard choices required to balance home and career; we should NOT be muttering that she’ll neglect her family. (Besides, VP doesn’t “run the country” unless P is disabled or killed.)
Phuque PUMA. The ones that I saw were simply racist whiners.
As for Clinton supporters (not PUMAs). I think they have to make a basic decision on whether they are voting gender or voting policy. Palin is pro-life, big business acolyte who is loved by right-wing conservatives. Do Clinton voters truly want McCain-Palin administration to select the next 3 supreme court justices? Do Clinton voters truly want McCain-Palin to deal with Iran and Iraq and other military matters with the type of temperment displayed by McCain?
Clinton supporters … all 18 million of them … are Democrats. What makes us think that they will give up their lifetime of support for Democratic party ideals to vote for a vice presidential candidate that they did not know existed until 5 hours ago?
Palin seems nice enough. However, I think she is a non-starter for national politics.
peace, Villager
Villager are you calling the chief executive of a co-equal sovereign unqualified? BWAHAHA I can’t wait for her to pull out the laundry list of things governors typically have to do is twice as long as anything a senator does.
I see the acolytes are coming out to engage in wishful thinking. I am trying to help y’all out and tell you to go hug a PUMA today. I am serious. Its this disdain y’all have for them that are going to cost you. He does not need 18 million. Only 15,000 or so
Gem and Clueless….you are absolutely right on my take on that and I in no way meant in that way even though it certainly sounds like it. (its the mommy in me that came out right away sorry) Yeah sure I thought about her governing Alaska, and yes I thought you clever old dude when the announcement came out.
I am one for equality across the board with all people don’t get me wrong but it WAS the first thing I thought about if she were a man with the same situation yes I would equate that with absent fathers because it does happen and unintentionally it happens to the best of us. I am completely aware of the VP not running the country lol …. in my comedic mind is see (kids in the oval office with toys all over the place)
No matter who any one of us choose I hope that we all and not just us here who visit this blog frequently, choose the group who will best see us through the next four years.
Thanks for calling me out.
Bad Wrld Bad Wrld
Actually Gina, I’d think you had a point if he’d chosen Kay Bailey Hutchison. That’s who I thought he’d go with. But a pro-life candidate? I can’t imagine the staunchest HRC fan going for that. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
I think this is a McCain misstep in the worst way. Choosing this woman should even alienate Republican women. He passed over many supremely qualified Republican women to choose this obscure woman from Alaska only because she’s pro-life. There are plenty of pro-choice Republican women. I can’t imagine that they’ll be gratified by this pick.
And remember, the HRC fans wanted to see a woman at the TOP of the ticket. By choosing a woman as veep, McCain has done something that the Democrats did almost 24 years ago. As a strategy I don’t see it being effective.
That’s not to say that Obama shouldn’t be reaching out to HRCs supporters, but I’ll be amazed if this strategy works.
Personally, I’m so happy about the Palin selection that I don’t know what to do. It is a true testiment of McCain’s reason and the rationale by which he would govern if given the opportunity to be the POTUS. In other words, this is the most ridiculous VP pick I have ever witness – Oh but, I forgot about Quayle…second most ridiculous pick.
There will be some HRC supporters who will vote for McCain – and there will some who will stay home – and there will be some who will vote for Barack. That sounds pretty much like a wash to me.
I personally think that McCain just guarranteed an Obama win…we’ll see…ought to be very interesting!
Hey everyone! Those of you who know me already know where I’m coming from.
As a conservative I didn’t even see this one coming- my mother called it before I did. I thought McCain would pick Romney or Liberman. But anyway, I must say that this is a brilliant, strategic move on McCain’s part. Brilliant! Palin has a story that many American women can relate to: working mom, former beauty pagent winner (beauty and brains), married for 20 years, child with diabilities, son in the miliarty, 80% job approval rating, etc. Let’s not forget about ANWR and gas prices at $4 a gallon either. Alaska is not an irrelevent state.
@Wrlddiva, Gina is right. Would you have asked the same question about Romney and his 5 kids? Furthermore as VP she could have one nanny for each child, LOL!
As a black Republican, I am ashamed and embarrassed by McCain’s choice. Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran and Cuba are texting one another “^5″.
Thanks Zabeth,
Actually I ask that of any parent especially myself. Let me clear guys, it was my first thought, not the only one I had about this.
Now with that said if I thought that then how many others out there did the same thing that I did without really looking at the strategic move McCain believes he made? And if that is the case,….how many people will make their mind up based on what the media announced first about her before they went into her accomplishments in the political arena? I understand how you could look at me and say dumb remark stupid, I know after I posted I said that, but its there and there WILL be some voters who will make their decision based on this sad credo “mothers should be home with babies”.
My mom and her friends are PUMA’s. Life long blue collar democrats and union members. They feel zero love coming from Obama supporters, and a couple have already called me today about the Palin pick and what I have read about her. Go watch her clips on Youtube, she is no Dan Quayle and one clip shows a number of diverse Alaskan’s, especially women, giving her high cudos for being a mom and governor.
My first reaction is Obama is now in trouble in battleground states where he previously had the advantage. The dumbest thing an Obama supporter can do right now is critisize Palin. Especially about her being a working mother, unbelievably insulting. You guys just don’t get it, and neither will Obama if you keep it up.
I don’t see this as a brilliant move but a defensive one that McCain was forced to make out of desperation. The question is whether America, white women, Hillaryites or others will see pride or prostitution in the pick.
@Wrlddiva
That maybe true, but do you think the Republicans won’t call people out on that and make them think about that assertion just like you had to think about your’s? Especially liberal democrats who are supposed to be in favor of equality among the sexes? If Democrats attack her on that wouldn’t that make them look hypocritical and sexist to their very white female party base? Not a good look. They can’t use that against her.
I think this is the smartest move McCain could have made. Darn it! Risky, perhaps. But, remember THIS IS AN ELECTION DEMOCRATS ARE SUPPOSED TO WIN. In fact, just being a republican candidate should be risky. We have an unpopular republican president. Our numbers should be off the charts. But, we’re neck and neck.
McCain’s base is euphoric. They are THRILLED! Be a bad choice or a good choice, you need YOUR BASE + MORE. to be president. Up to this point, McCain has not been able to count on his base. They hadn’t been showing up to hear him speak. They hadn’t been sending him money. He’s been slugging away, basically on his own.
Now, these people are wide awake and actually happy.
And, before you think she won’t appeal to Clinton supporters, just because she’s pro life, I say think again. Many democrats are pro life, we’re democrats for many reasons. Heck, I’m pro life.
This woman is actually a femist.
Gun in one hand, baby on her hip, she actually has some feminist credentials. She’s been “very” vocal about women’s rights (equal pay, etc) and is a member of a couple of feminist organizations.
She could very well pull some Hillary supporters, legitimately. It depends on “which” of the issues are driving forces for them as individuals. And, Gina’s right. It doesn’t take millions. It takes a few thousands, in a few choice districts along the way.
If nothing else, the race just got a little more exciting.
Zabeth I one hundred percent agree with you on that point. You’re right.
It’s sad to say that but it will come up even silently or in the backwoods where I am where people are saying “I’m not voting for Obama cause he’s black (white and black voters alike)…or cause I don’t want him to be the fall guy or get this one As soon as he get in office they gone kill him, and I don’t want to be responsible for puttin’ that brotha in harms way”
(see the confused look on my face?) serious I’ve heard that kind of talk. It is sad that I hear that kind of talk from people around here.
So they (Republicans) can call em out but they are going to make that statement and that judgement for her based on just that and its jacked up but true. Someone is going to vote based on that just like some are going to vote based on them believing they are saving Obama’s life. sigh………
Hopefully people will do what I’m going to do and really look at everything in detail and make my decision based on that and nothing else.
Cheers
I actually think McCain’s gained very little. The evangelicals were going to hold their nose and vote for him anyway. They were certainly not going for Obama, and they’re unlikely to stay home. So, one way or another they were going to vote for McCain.
I doubt very seriously that anyone who was in the HRC camp will go with McCain simply because he chose a woman veep. And let’s get real, the people who would do that are not doing it because they were with her on the issues, they’d be doing it because they were against Obama. No matter what Obama did, even choosing a woman veep wouldn’t have made a difference.
So, essentially McCain shored up his base and gained the voters he would’ve eventually have had anyway. Obama loses nothing except perhaps some HRC supporters who would not have voted for him no matter what he did.
I don’t see this as particularly frightening or threatening, though certainly this race is by no means a done deal. I think we’ll come out of the conventions at a dead heat. We might even end up in the House to decide the outcome. Oh gee, won’t that be fun?
Gina…the post was on point! O.K. Obama acolyte’s please stand and raise your right left and put your right over your heart.
Now repeat after me “In politics there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies’ only permanent interests”
NO got out there and hug a PUMA
Hi Gina~
This move by John McCain is not only brilliant because he has chosen a woman but he has chosen a Christian Conservative Woman. That’s Huge!!!! One of my problems with Sen. Obama was the fact that he was so liberal on his position on abortion (particularly late term abortion). It’s my understanding that this woman is a right wing Christian Conservative and the Obama Camp shouldn’t underestimate the Christian Right. Some of us Black folk actually place our Christianity above our Blackness.
How does that saying go: “Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line”?
You gotta give it to them Republicans. Shewd. Real shrewd. What foxes!
Things have gotten real interesting in the last 24 hours.
I like that one, lildiva. Rosalyn had some great points. The only one I would disagree with, a bit, would be – would evangelicals sit at home.
They’ve done it before. They (4 million) sat at home in 2000 (when Bush squeeked by).
Bush Sr. had 81% of this voting block during his first and only successful run for the White House. The 2nd time, he split the vote with Clinton…and lost.
Obama was right…to reach out to this voting group.
They might have stayed at home, but they sure weren’t going to vote for Obama. Either way, this is hardly a slam-dunk for either candidate.
I do agree with Gina, however that the Obama-ites need to get a grip and start acting like this is a political campaign and not the anointing of a new messiah.
Democrats fight, we always have and always will. And this tendency has lost us a few in the past, but as Abraham Lincoln said, “They sound like cats fighting in the night, but the next morning all you have is more Democrats.”
I totally disagree that evangelicals would automatically vote for McCain. Many would sit at home and have done so in the past. This is why it was important to select a pro-life candidate. The fact that she is a working mom, pro-life and holds other views that conservative Republicans, especially evangelicals, will play well with them I think. It will be interesting to see how those leaders respond in the next few days.
The Obama supporters better be careful in attacking her for lack of experience. They will be causing more problems for themselves. As Gina said their time will be better spent finding the alienated Hilary supporters. I have seen more PUMAs that are sensible, normal people that just feel like they were screwed by the DNC. At least they could have done the entire roll call to give them a voice. That was even taken away from them.
I do not have cable at this time because most of it is garbage. However I do have a pocket PC and may subscribe to MobiTV so I can watch the cable news channels the next couple of months.
First let me say thank you Gina for all of the wonderful audi and blog coverage, videos, and photos. You gave new meaning to a sistalove on the scene. I think McCain’s team was savvy in selecting Palin. It is a chess game. Now the Obama team has to regroup a bit and get their Art of War manual out and chess strategy together. We gotta leave the emotions at home and move from a place of calmness, consistency, and strategy. We can do it provided we plan and act instead of react.
I’m with Roslyn Holcomb, besides momentarily stealing Obama’s post convention thunder, I think this does very little for McCain in the long run. Hugging a PUMA will not help–the Hillary supporters who are still hold outs after Bill and Hill endorsed Obama will not change their minds because Obama supporters are suddenly nice to them.
And I cannot disagree with you more on the experience argument. She has been governor for less than 2 years–has no foreign policy experience and no major city in her state. Prior to being elected governor, she was the mayor of a town of 9k. To me her choosing severly undercuts McCain’s attacks against Obama’s lack of experience. If Obama ain’t ready, then she definitely ain’t ready.
@bertie it is futile. they won’t listen because they can’t conceive of the possibility that anyone would not vote for obama. in the way they couldn’t wrap their heads around people voting for bush.
You don’t have to agree. You don’t have to understand it, but you do have to strategize on how to deal with it.
my suggestion is hug a PUMA today!!!
I just listened to your podcast. I don’t think John McCain and his people did anything outstanding. They have pandered to a segment of Clinton’s supporters who they think will carry John McCain to the WH.
Obama’s camp has not fallen short on trying to attract HRC’s supporters. The main argument is that HRC’s supporters believe Obama has overstepped by running for POTUS when they believe it is HRC’s moment.
McCain didn’t do anything outstanding. Palin is McCain’s last stand.
Palin is not prepared to become POTUS should, God forbid, something happen to McCain.
McCain is playing checkers while Obama is playing chess. I’ve played both games, and I know the difference.
Gina, I’m not about to reach out to HRC’s supporters. I don’t believe there were 13 million cracks in that glass ceiling by the time the primary season ended.
The Pumas weren’t about HRC in the end, and they said so, it was about their perception, fueled by HRC’s bitterness, that Obama, the DNC, and the MSM stole HRC’s nomination. Those people will not, and were not, going to vote for Obama. All rational thought has escaped that group, and nothing Obama or his “accolytes” can say will deter them from their mission.
The McCain move was shrewd. A nice bit of political jujitsu.
But Gina I’m gonna have to disagree with the premise of your post. PUMA’s don’t want a hug..they want Hillary. And unless Obama supporters are willing to kiss their ass they don’t want to hear anything anyone has to say.
Obama has been trying (desperately) to court Hillary supporters, from asking for help in canceling her debt to agreeing to the roll call vote at the convention.
What more has to be done?
The fact that NONE of that was enough and the only thing that might have got them on board was Clinton as VP, let’s me know that they have very little desire to vote Obama.
AND if you’re gonna allow someone’s supporters to determine who your vote for then you deserve to live under the administration you get.
So if you feel like hugging, kissing, dancing, sexing a PUMA is gonna help…then by all means do so. But if PUMA’s can’t fall in line (much like Christian Conservatives are doing) then don’t bitch and moan when McCain and Palin set our Supreme Court Justices and ultimately our reproductive rights for you.
I feel the same way about PUMA’s as I do about the idiots who voted for BUSH: Don’t bitch and moan about how your life sucks and you can’t find/keep your job and gas prices are so high — you get the country you voted for.
What qualifications does Palin have? She has only been in office for 2 years.
Please elaborate.
Gina, you sure you don’t have a dog in this race.
One thing this does is takes away McCain’s ability to critique Obama’s experience. Sara Palin is two years into her term in a state that has a population the the size of a small city.
Obama will have to be very careful when attacking Palin; he does have some great attack ads in the making though. He can use her fresh-face to turn the celebrity argument against McCain. He can call McCain out for the inexperience attack ads and he can use that 3:00am argument to his advantage because Sarah Palin, when thought of before as a VP nominee stated that “she didn’t even know what a VP did” and that it didn’t seem very “productive”.
Biden will shred her during the debates and I looking forward to all of it! This election year is gonna be hot.
Lemme call up a few PUMAs for drink…
As an admitted obamistan, I have to confess that I’m scared as hell. Old man McCain pulled the only rabbit that he had right out of that dingy, stuffy, tired hat called “GOP vice presidential candidates.”
Any other pick and his campaign would have been steamrolled by the Obama train that finally caught fire Thursday night.
I wasn’t worried about the PUMAs because I thought that their lack of enthusiasm would be made up by the legion of fellow obamistans, especially considering that the true right-wingers who carried W for the last two elections were also staying home.
Well, guess what my fellow obamistans? They’re not staying home anymore. McCain has thrown a bone to a pack of rabid, blood-thirsty fighting dogs. The GOP hardliners have solidly pro-life, fiscal conservative, war hawking, oil drilling dream team (now that they’ve remade McCain into McSame by the force of their will).
Oh, how they will laugh at the Democrats when they become the first party to elect a woman to one of the two highest offices.
We had better wake up!
My wife frowns upon me hugging random angry white ladies…lol. I definitely hear what you’re saying–but when the dust settles, I think Palin is more of a liability than a boost. Obama’s real weakness isn’t angry white women, it is that his lack of experience gives reasonable white folks pause. Palin, in my opinion, makes the lack of experience argument harder to make because McCain implicitly believes that Palin–who is even less experienced than Obama–is ready to lead. She takes away McCain’s best line of attack. Plus he is old with a history of health problems–her experience is crucial because she may be 1 weak heartbeat away of the presidency.
ladyC I didn’t expect Obama supporters to agree with me.
the democrats are NOTORIOUS for blowing presidential elections. They are always off base and they always think their guy is the only logical choice. but for ross perot Bush number 1 would have won in 96.
here is the deal. this was the democrat’s year. the republicans were given up for dead. what’s worse is the base is downright giddy with less than 2 months left to go.
Nstead of trying to minimize this strategic move you ought to be thinking about how to counter it.
the Obama statement slamming small towns with populations of 9000 was a stupid move.
Obama ites had better start registering new voters by the truckload. this will be an epic battle.
I’m loving it and find it comical that acolytes are refusing to reach out to Hillary supporters. Y’all don’t want to win in Nov. I guess
Gina you seem to forget that Obama is still Black and that is the biggest liability in this race NOT not reaching out to Hillary supporters.
Who hasn’t been reaching out to them?
If you want to use the Ross Perot argument then Nader/Gore works as well and that’s assuming you believe the election wasn’t stolen.
If jobs, economy, energy and a host of other issues aren’t important to you…by all means vote McCain.
PLEASE do so.
PRETTY PLEASE!
Then stfu as the country continues to deteriorate.
And hell, I’m not even an Obama fan. But I’ll take him over McCain.
I can’t convince angry stupid people to do the right thing. For those of you who have the patience to do so…by all means try but, don’t be surprised if your boy still loses and my guess is the taste of ass just isn’t that sweet.
Gina, you sure you don’t have a dog in this race.
@LadyC your Obama acolyte-ism is showing. What have I said that indicates that I would support the McCain ticket? You seriously, along with all your other Obama acolytes, have got to politically mature.
If you have ever played tennis, you know that every once in a while your opponent makes a stunning shot and even though you are the opposition, you have to clap for them because they caught you off guard.
This Palin choice came out of nowhere. Noone was expecting this. In this election, McCain made the riskiest VP choice. Now this could be a disaster OR it could be enough to keep social conservatives in Georgia for voting for Bob Barr.
You forget what I do for a living. I don’t have a choice seeing an issue from both sides. Actually, I consider it an asset. I get the Obama acolytes. I understand them. That’s why I tease you so much. I also get that some of your tendencies make you politically vulnerable.
@JJ,
Of course people vote against their economic best interest. Republicans have figured that out and play identity politics as well as any Democrat ever could. Just like they placed gay marriage on the ballot.
I didn’t say that the McCain/Palin ticket would be good for America. I just think it was a wise strategic move for the purposes of winning the White House.
@JJ, oh honey, you should have been at this convention. The Dems can try to play down tenions as much as they want and for the vast majority of Hillary supporters, it over, but McCain doesn’t need 18 million votes. All he may need is for 15,000 to stay home.
McCain has reinjected gender into the race. He’s reinvigorated his conservative base, he’s robbed Obama of his Invesco Field afterglow, and potentially closed the gender gap. He had nothing to lose by selecting Palin. He could have gone with Romney, but has basically made a choice that throws potential landmines all over the place. OH yeah and did you read Obama’s comment about her being the Mayor of a town of 9,000. I forgot the middle american blue collar vote oh yeah and on the energy issue, it does not get more “energy”-oriented than Alaska.
I believe it was a smart political move on his part as well.
I just don’t think all the hugging and kissing of PUMA’s is gonna change much…but for those who are willing to try…by all means do so.
Don’t have to be at the convention to see the tensions. The blogsphere (and network news) give you all you need to see.
But that’s the Dem’s fault. They should have never let the primary go on so long. It was over in Febuary and it should have been over in febuary…but NOOOOO that’s not what happened.
Anywho…contrary to popular belief ANWAR only has 3 – 6 mos worth of oil…that ain’t “energy” oriented, that’s lining pockets of billionares oriented.
Like I say…vote stupidly…let the chips fall where they may. Maybe in another 4 years Americans will be really tired of the same ol’ BS.
I think that John McCain’s choice was a poor one and will not get him any further than what he has been with Obama. Please everyone, do not get all genious over this. Gena, I have to disagree with you on this one my sistah.
First of all, there are several women he could have chosen to be his running mate who could have gave Hillary and Obama a cause for concern for this election but he played the defense and he chose this lady. You have Maine US Senators Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins and the awesome Kay Bailey Hutchison from Texas. I am not a Republican but I know that Hutchison is a powerhouse and she could give Biden a run for his money in the debates, especially foreign policy. And we can not forget Elizabeth Dole from North Carolina! If he had picked anyone, we would have pause to worry, seriously. But he picks this women. What the F%$K!!!!
When the debates happen between Biden and Palin, he is going to eat her alive and rip a new one on her.
This is a case of McCain taking the women’s vote for granted. Women voters are not going to support another women because she is a women. She will be supported if she has our issues and concerns in mind. Palin does not, but the other’s do. Look at their voting record. They have align themselves with Hillary on several legislations.
So what does McCain do? He picks someone to be his running mate who is even younger than Barack Obama and has less experience.
And in quoting from CNN’s commentator Jack Cafferty, “Sara Palin is 44 – Obama is 47. Sara Palin is in her first term as governor of Alaska, a state that has 13 people and some caribou. Obama is a member of the United States Senate from Illinois.” Now who has better experience the McCain keeps egging Obama about? You get the picture.
McCain’s pick is a big fat joke. Instead of offense, he takes defense. No sense and dumb.
I’m one of those Pumas y’all are talking about and I’m also a professional Black woman. I’ve been called “aunt jemina” and “house n****r” by Obamabots simply because I supported Hillary Clinton and not Obama. I’ve been on boards and forums where Obama supporters post nasty, misogynistic rhetoric against those of us who supported Hillary Clinton. And, contrary to what many of you think, many Pumas are men and there are all types of people of color who did not support Obama. I agree with your premise that the Obama supporters SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONES to woo Hillary Clinton’s supporters and not the Republicans. I’m still waiting for ANY Obama supporter tell me that he or she would appreciate my vote… they just continually tell me to “get over it.”
Gina, I came to your site alone. As, I’ve stated before, calling someone an “accolyte,” in my opinion, is offensive. I do not and have not claimed Obama to be a messiah.
I’m not angry, nor am I upset, I was just open for some talk. McCain did not interject gender into this race–you can thank HRC and her supporters for that.
I am politically mature. Mature enough to know that this is not a post-racial election. Now, the HRC’s supporters can make the rest of the country believe that, when and if they vote for McCain/Palin, it was the ticket and not the color of Obama’s skin. But, hey, that’s the reality of the matter.
I am a woman, and I have to say that women are not ready for the POTUS. Everything men have said about women being emotional and illogical has come out in this “election cycle.”
The fact that I pay taxes and am legally able to vote makes me mature enough to research and choose someone who has my best interest in mind. I am the one who will go behind the curtain and choose my candidate. I cannot speak for others.
McCain just proved that we, as a country, love bells and whistles over substance. The only left now, is to see if the grandstanding can translate into votes.
I wouldn’t necessarily describe myself as a Black puma (especially of the crying species seen on CNN) but I was a Hillary supporter. Indeed I made my first political contribution to her campaign.
As someone who was never worshipper of the demigod Obama, I decided for the first time in my life to vote Green. McKinney has my vote.
I decided not to vote for Obama not because it was Hillary and no one else. I am disgusted at how the Democratic party treat HRC; I think of that rules committee meeting was an embarrassment; the way that the Obamites tended to blow things out of proportion with anything regarding the Clintons was embarrassing; I hate group think in any form; and of all the people he could have picked as vice president (a female or Latino governor, hint-hint), he picked the entrenched white guy.
So I’ve decided to vote for a woman in protest. I’m sure there will be women voting for McCain/Palin for any of those reasons.
I am not hugging any PUMAs!!!
Gina, I see that you are starting to look a lot like a “McCain Acolyte” and PUMA rolled up into one. Why are you so impressed with McCain’s VP pick? There wasn’t anything brilliant about his choice. It is even hyperbole to say that his selection was brilliant. His pick is shocking, but not brilliant.
Sidebar: LEAVE OBAMA SUPPORTERS ALONE!!
PS I hope your arms are not sore from hugging all those PUMAs at the DNC. : – )
Could somebody, I mean anybody explain to me exactly in what way this political process was unfair to HRC? Especially unfair in a way that’s attributable to either Obama or the DNC?
Did I miss something? I’ve seen Obama practically bend over backwards to court her supporters. I’m certainly no Obama acolyte or whatever one might call it. Indeed, I was quite fond of Edwards until he proved himself to be yet another idiot who can’t keep it in his pants. However, I can’t imagine voting for McCain even if he HAD chosen a decent veep.
I saw a hard-fought campaign that was no dirtier than any other political campaign. I saw one candidate win and another lose. What exactly is it that I missed, and why do the PUMAs believe their candidate deserves to be on the ticket when she lost? Could someone please explain this to me?
Monica, I don’t think the Democratic Party treated Hillary Clinton any different than they have treated anyone else. You have a right to vote for anyone you wish to vote for. I guess my confusion starts with, the way we elect our nominee was good enough and legal enough for Bill Clinton, but now it favors Obama is a fallacy that was started by HRC and her camp. No one stole the nomination from HRC. Going into the Rules and Bylaws Committee, Clinton nor Obama had any delegates from Michigan and Florida. The MSM and the Clinton camp kept pushing that HRC had won both states, when in reality she had not.
It goes back to telling a lie often enough until it will be perceived as the truth. It was a lie then, and it still is a lie no matter how many times it is said.
The die-hard Hillary supporters were not going to accept any other woman but HRC as Obama’s running mate. Bill Richardson was not going to be chosen, because America is not ready for two minorities on the ticket. Obama chose someone who could shore up his meager foreign policy experience.
It is your vote to cast for whomever you choose, but a protest vote in these times is asking for four more years of the same. If McKinney were a viable nominee, I would vote for her myself. She is smart and tough. I don’t believe McKinney would have pitted one voting bloc (AA) against another voting bloc (working, hard-working white people).
“I’ve seen Obama practically bend over backwards to court her supporters.”
Like sending his VP pick by text at 3:00 am. It was a swipe.
“but a protest vote in these times is asking for four more years of the same”
Isn’t voting for someone you don’t believe in just as bad?
So Monica, what exactly is it that Obama or the DNC did to HRC that you and/or the PUMAs are disgruntled about? Could you be kind enough to explain? Not comments about text messages, but what exactly is it that you’re disgruntled about.
Wow Republicans, that was gangsta.
I guess we will have to wait and see how all this turns out.
The Dems are obviously going to be to scared to attack her, b/c they never stand up for themselves against strong men, now they in position to be called too aggressive if they start to attack Palin.
Every 4 years they try to take the high road and still lose. What are they going to do different this time? Will the American people finally stand up and say enough is enough w/ Republican policies? I hope so.
And Obama can’t talk about race, but he needs Pookie and Ray Ray in Florida, Ohio and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh (b/c we know how the rest of Penn is) to come out and vote for him. Will they come out if he can’t even mention race, they feel left out (and really are, like most regular Americans) thats why they still aren’t registered to vote in the first place. Its like he has to run away from blackness but he needs it at the same time.
“Isn’t voting for someone you don’t believe in just as bad?”
This is what AA have being doing since we have been voting regularly in the last 50 years.
Gina, I think Monica has given us an object lesson on why hugging PUMAs will be of no benefit. The bottom line is, they don’t like Obama. If they were with HRC on the issues, why would they not vote for a candidate who has virtually the same platform? It makes no sense. This is far less about ill-treatment, perceived or otherwise and more about people simply not liking a candidate. We can hug PUMAs until we all get cat scratch fever and it will be to no avail. I just hate that instead of being upfront and simply saying they don’t like Obama, they’re instead claiming maltreatment when clearly none exists. There’s nothing wrong with not liking Obama, vote for whomever you prefer. But for the love of Pete, stop claiming that it has a darned thing to do with Obama or the DNC.
McCain’s choice of a woman for VP may be shameless pandering to folks on this blog and hasn’t changed the minds of anyone on this blog, but you can bet that Obama and his advisors are taking it real seriously. If they have to have to go knocking on Clinton’s door and pledge to pay all her remaining campaign bills to get her to go out and convince women Democrats not to jump ship, they will.
They know they can’t keep everyone from jumping ship, but they also know the Obama-Biden ticket doesn’t have a prayer if they fail to take this seriously and it would be colossally dumb on their part not to get out and start sealing the cracks before the ship sinks altogether.
Didn’t really matter to me who McCain picked, but like everyone else I’m going to be scratching my head at least until Gov. Palin gives a speech at the convention, which I will be watching. Even though I plan to vote for Obama, I’m going to watch the convention, ’cause how can I claim I’m in independent in good conscience if I don’t check out BOTH sides. Maybe Palin will give a speech that will let us in on who she is better than simply reading a biography would. There are other Republican women that I would have found more compelling and it seems to me that he picked one who’d just do what he says b/c she’s young and unknown. I’m insulted by that. And I’m annoyed by the idea that Clintonistas only wanted her because she’s a woman so if McCain puts a woman on the ticket, they’ll follow the fallopian tubes to his VP pick. I think the Clintonistas wanted Hillary b/c of her values and Sarah Palin doesn’t share those values.
I honestly did try to understand some PUMAs side of things better. I asked questions, I tried to put myself in their shoes. But at the end of the day, I just didn’t get it. I felt rejected. I felt pushed away by all of the “Black people who like Obama aren’t thinking for themselves” talk. Not all the PUMAs were like that, but many were and it pushed me away.
@Roslyn Holcomb
AMEN!
You can’t appease people who don’t want to be appeased.
Sorry.
Your girl lost. It was her election to lose. She had NO reason to lose to the upstart and had all the wind behind her. She played dirty, cried, whined and did every other political trick and still LOST.
Why is that so hard to accept?
I’m not hugging anybody. As Roslyn said:
If they were with HRC on the issues, why would they not vote for a candidate who has virtually the same platform? It makes no sense. This is far less about ill-treatment, perceived or otherwise and more about people simply not liking a candidate. We can hug PUMAs until we all get cat scratch fever and it will be to no avail.
There’s really nothing left to say.
I think because of his age people were sleeping on McCain! But he sure pulled a rabbit out of that hat, didn’t he?! Now all the Dems are salty.
McCain made a very strategic, calculated move here. He is aiming for the woman vote, the women 30 and over vote, the mother vote, the mother of children with disability votes. This move may have put McCain over the top. It could also backfire, only time will tell. Hillary was the love of the Feminists, but Palin is Pro-Life and not Pro-Choice, so with the feminists this could be a drawback. We’ll see what happens next!
Hey Rosalyn, I listed them in an earlier post. I’ll elaborate:
Democratic Party:
I am disgusted at how the Democratic party treat HRC, instead of letting the process play out, she was ridiculed and ostracized for not conceding earlier. I didn’t like that. I guess it was too much democracy for them.
I think of that rules committee meeting was an embarrassment. One of the arguments made for giving Obama 4 delegates when it was on the ballot was that based on polling data and sampling of people who didn’t vote-that’s the number of delegates he would have received. What about those people who actually did make the effort to vote, they could have stayed at home. If we made nomination decisions based on those who didn’t vote, GW would never be president.
I don’t want to be a member of any party that would even consider disenfranchisement as punishment. Nor would I want be a member of a party, that would manipulate it’s rules in such a way to guarantee the leadership’s nominee.
As an independent, I don’t have to deal with that.
Obamites:
Obamites tended to blow things out of proportion with anything regarding the Clintons. It started in SC. HRC made a true statement, LBJ had to sign the Civil Rights legislation into law. BC said that JJ won SC also, he did. Next thing I know the Clintons are not running to become the first family again but they are nominees for Grand Wizard (and Wizardess) of the Evil Invisible Klavern of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc. Then Obama supporters dug up Republican talking points from 1992 and accused HRC of everything from shoplifting to murder. It didn’t stop there, any criticism of Obama by any white person was construed as racism.
And forget about black people saying anything that wasn’t glowing about Obama-blaspheme, blaspheme, hiss, hiss, boo. Tavis Smiley received death threats because he dared to question Obama. What the hell? All of this fanatical adoration of Obama when the fact of the matter was that it took the stamp of approval of white people in Iowa to give black folks permission to take his candidacy seriously. Now black person who questions him is a Tom, house n**** or lovin’ Miss Ann. I didn’t care for the pressure to fall in line.
Obama:
While his supporters were engaging in the vilest intra-racial rhetoric heard since Malcolm X’s attacks on the civil rights leaders who believed in nonviolent confrontation, Obama said nothing. It’s like he didn’t care as long as he got 99% of black votes.
I hate the fact he is almost universal black support, but he is compelled to give speeches like the one presented on Father’s Day and black folk still want to kiss his hem. He is the first black major party nominee for president and he gives a stump speech as his acceptance of the nomination. No mention of MLK in the speech. No mention of the civil rights struggle. No mention of Fannie Lou Hamer. No mention of Barbara Jordan. Not even a mention of Harriet Tubman. It was a whitewash of our history and our struggle without which he could not claim the nomination-and still black people want to kiss his ring.
He can say anything about black folk in the name of running for president of the United States and not black America and black people let it pass, just to get him in office. He can flip-flop on any issue and black people will let it go.
And if called on it, he and his supporters ask “What are you going to do, vote for McCain?”
I might not vote for McCain, but I will vote for a proven progressive who doesn’t give a damn about making anyone nervous.
It’s amazing how much we think alike!
That cab ride was one of the high points of my Trip to Denver.
Funny thing is, I woke up this morning and Immediately came to the same conclusion. This was a brill political move! The news shows had already moved the Obama speech to a sidebar.
Whatever you think of the Republicans, this was a “check” in the weekly game of political chess.
I hope you make it to the blogger convention in Vegas in two weeks!
@weems,
EXACTLY! He is doing what Obama is doing by putting money in formerly red states. McCain is going to make Obama have to ask for women’s votes. Democrats typically get them anyway, but Obama can’t chance it.
Which is why I find the resistance in the comments thread to openly asking Clinton supporters to vote for Obama as politically silly. Today Palin blatantly ASKED for women to vote for her. She directly appealed to former Clinton supporters. Why is that hard for the Dems to do? Or do you think the surge in the Black vote and youth vote is all Obama needs to win?
It costs you NOTHING to ask for their support. Somewhere Hillary Clinton is laughing right now. She is the ONLY Democrat that can go after Palin and she shouldn’t even answer the phone for less than $20 million. So far the Dems have flubbed their attack on Palin.
Y’all think McCain took experience off the table, I say he put it smack dab in the middle of the table. What McCain has said is “She’s got more experience than the top of your ticket.” In other words McCain WANTS to talk about experience. If Dems blast her as unqualified, as they already have, then they risk reopening the wounds of sexist campaigns past.
You may call it desperate, call it what you want, but occasionally someone catches a Hail Mary in the end zone.
FUN Times! Fun Times! I am loving this debate.
Regarding those who are offended by the term acolyte, WHATEVER. The stuff that other Black folks have been called during the primary season is worse. All Obama supporters are not acolytes, but the tiny few who think it is their God given right to attack and intimidate any Black person who doesn’t toe the line are as dangerous as Mugabe’s thugs in Zimbabwe and they must be beaten back wherever they are found. I am offended that any Black person would terrorize another Black person over participating in the political process. It is morally repugnant and disrespectful of the Black folks who marched bled and died for that right to vote. What makes you any different from the enforcers of Jim Crow? Electoral intimidation is electoral intimidation. I am also offended that White voters were not subjected to the same scrutiny. It was as if White Americans were free to fully participate in the electoral process, but Black people had to shut up and tow the line. THAT OFFENDS ME and it should offend every other freedom loving American.
I have been a contrarian too many times in my life to sit back and watch the majority pick on the minority. Even if it is within the Black community.
Let me be clear. I find the type of intimidation and intra-race warfare that has gone on over the past 6 months to be idiotic and stupid. Whoever I choose to vote for is my choice. If someone makes another choice, that does not make them my enemy. I respect their right to vote for the candidate of their choice.
I believe STRONGLY in the following:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak for me.
You don’t have to understand it. I can’t help it that I was born with a natural animus for BULLIES. I can’t stand them. TO me they are weak.
I was not a Clinton supporter, but I did not sit idly by while members of my community who may have made a different choice that I did were demonized and attacked for supporting the candidate of their choice. I did not stay quiet just to keep people happy. Freedom means nothing if you ain’t free and I will not trade the shackles of one form of oppresion for an equally morally. repugnant alternative.
Acolytes bring out the natural fighter in me because I HATE BULLIES. I hate people who are in the majority who pick on the tiny minority. I hate it. I hate injustice. So when I saw the way Black Clinton supporters were being treated, it irked me. So I will continue to use the word acolyte. It is descriptive.
Do y’all really think acolytes are going to retire if Obama wins the election? Pluueez. best to stand up to them now or be cowed by them for four or 8 years. It does not matter who you support for president. We all ought to be against attacking and intimidating Black voters, even if we are well meaning.
Great pick by McCain. Anyone who would pick a VP that they have only met once definately has the good judgement to be President. Anyone who would pick a VP that is currently under investigation by their own state legislature clearly has the intellect to lead this nation. I mean picking a rabidly anti-choice woman in a country in which most women are pro-choice is one smart cookie. Wake-up people! Short term media hype won’t withstand the vetting that this woman is going to get from the media that the McCain camp obviously didn’t.
Who picks a VP who has said that they don’t even know what the VP does? Oh and she also called Hillary a “whinner”. I just have one question to the PUMAs: were you for Hillary or her policies or her experience? Either way Sarah Palin is no Hillary. She lacks Hillary’s experience or policy stances on the issues. I guess you just want a woman, any woman. Can we call that reverse sexism? I get accused of reverse racism for backing Obama so I just think fair is fair.
Biden won’t have to go attack dog on her to eat her lunch in a debate and the McCain camp can never say Obama isn’t ready to be President again. That was the best line of attack they had and they threw it out the window. Nice job McCain. If Palin is qualified, after one year as governer, to be one heart beat away from being President then Obama is more than qualified enough to be President. This move stinks of desperation and I don’t want to here another Republican complain about affrimative action again. If this isn’t a token white female quota pick I don’t know what is. Has McCain never heard of Kay Baily Hutchinson or Liddy Dole? Oh that’s right, white women don’t get have to wear the stigma of affirmative action even though they are the primary beneficiaries of it and always have been.
McCain is the Palin what Bush was to Harriet Miers. The Christianists may be happy and the talking heads are trying to spin it, but smart conservatives know the real deal. This isn’t about Palin, this is about McCain and his judgement. Anyone who would pick someone they meet ONCE in February for the secong highest office of the land is and idiot who lacks good sense. Would John McCain make her the guardian of his children in the event of his death after only meeting her once? I doubt it. So what would compele him to make her America’s guardian in the event of his death? Not a man who puts his “country first” that’s for damn sure. All of this talk about people not “knowing” Obama and now we don’t know McCain’s VP and he doesn’t know her either.
If the PUMAs go for this then they really are nuts, probably racists and don’t give a shit about America or the how Hillary would have led it had she won. If the Obama camp is smart that will make an ad with the footage of McCain laughing when one of his supporters called Hillary a bitch and the Palin calling her a whinner. That should make the PUMAs proud of the ticket thet are considering voting for.
@emma
Way to woo voters! To call them crazy and nuts…
Democrats= Insainity=Doing the same thing over and over again.
@emma you mean crazy like the republicans who sent George Bush to the White House for two terms…
Y’all just don’t get it. Its sad really sad that y’all won’t heed this warning. Hug a PUMA today! you don’t have to like it, just do it.
Just because you think his choice was stupid doesn’t mean the people going to the polls will agree with you.
Here’s something else I pointed out (which I pointed out to the folks on my blog):
Palin was evidently given the green light from the Republicans to play the woman card. To shamelessly reach out to women voters and to admit her debt to women like Hillary Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro.
Such shameless pandering to women voters was absolute verboten to Clinton. She was slammed throughout the campaign if there was any hint on her part of playing the woman card. It wasn’t until the other night when Clinton was bowing out that she could play the woman card, relish in being female, and situate her campaign in the context of women’s history.
Let’s not even talk about race (blackness, and not just poorness) being a verboten topic for Obama (even in his acceptance speech). He couldn’t even say MLK’s name.
So, there you have it. Your critics set the rules for the game. You abide by the rules. And then they decide to change the rules when it benefits them. Leaving you to look like you were dumb for ever agreeing to abide by the rules.
This is not a critique of Clinton (although there were plenty who rose up in protest whenever there was any hint of her trying to reach out to (black) women. Neither is it a critique of Obama, not really anyway.
It’s a reminder of what happens when you play by the rules you didn’t make to get the job you were not (in other folks’ mind) meant to get. Rules change.
(Sorry Gina for being longwinded.)
Frankly, If anybody hasn’t made a decision for President by now, 3 months left b/f the General Election. I’m thoroughly suprised.
Barack Obama has done more than enough to bring in HRC supporters. A black man shouldn’t have to get down on his knees and beg like some servant for a someone’s vote because PUMAs are pissed off. I never saw Kerry nor Gore bend over backwards to do such a thing. If PUMAs can’t vote for him now, then they were never going to vote for him anyway.
There is too much at stake.
If you want more conservative supreme court justices. Vote McCain
If you want Roe v. Wade overturned. Vote McCain
If you want 100 year war in iraq. Vote McCain.
If you want jobs to continue going overseas. Vote McCain.
Obama is pretty much clear on his stances and if people can’t see that than we all get what we deserve whoever is president.
No amount of hugging is going to change a person’s mind if they don’t want to change.
Picking Palin as VP is an utter SLAP in the face for Clinton. Not to mention it ruins her historic run for the Presidency and will overshadow her legacy if McCain wins. Picking Palin as VP does not benefit Hillary one bit. If anything, Hillary should campaign harder for Obama.
As far as McCain’s campaign goes, lobbyists are flying roughshod through the Republican ranks. McCain’s town meetings are a farce, run by some of the top lobbyists in the country. Let’s take William V. Hilleary, for example. He’s a lobbyist for Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal. He’s also acting as the Tennessee co-chair. He’s doing loads of fundraising for McCain, with alot of money coming from previous clients. You gotta wonder, how do the donations from these companies reflect Americans? It’s the same thing in Florida with Brian Ballard. Recently he’s been working for Honda, probably getting bills passed that are automotive friendly. Brian is a major part of McCain’s fundraising efforts, he’s McCain’s National Finance Committee Co-Chair. Let’s move onto Kirk Blalock. He’s a lobbyist for Airbus, an aircraft company. This guy’s services basically go out the highest bidder. Our American aircraft company, Boeing, lost a contract from the U.S. because of Brian’s lobbying. We also have Slade Gorton, a lobbyist for a bunch of conglomerates. That makes him eligible to be McCain’s Honorary Chairman. This guy’s laundrylist of lobbying is so long they were going to dedicate a shopping mall in his name. McCain has his campaign plodding along with lobbyists at the forefront. They’re on the trail with him, raising money for him and chairing his committees. Rather than drop the lobbyists, McCain is letting the lobbyists drop in on his campaign. His proposals aren’t for the people, they’re for laggard commercial interests!
@Monica
If you want to vote for a woman you could vote for Cynthia McKinney.
And you do know that Hillary agreed to the DNC rules when she thought she would win don’t you? You do know that the DNC is mostly made up of people that the Clintons brought in don’t you? You do know that Harold Ickes, a Clinton loyalist, wrote the rules for how the caucuses and primaries were to run don’t you? You do know that voting against Obama doesn’t punish the DNC or Obama, it punishes the country don’t you?
Like I said post-rational. These PUMAs would rather nurse their own sense of aggrievement and victimization then do what’s right for their country. How do you “hug” that? How do you “hug” post-rational? Someone please tell me?
@gem2001
@emma you mean crazy like the republicans who sent George Bush to the White House for two terms…
I think the key word in that sentense is REPUBLICANS. Are PUMAs R’s or D’s? Or R’s who just forgot to switch their registration from D when they started voting R in the 1980s for Reagan and haven’t stopped since?
Operation Chaos was real people.
Hi Gina,
I have to agree that this was a smart move by McCain. He has totally captured the news and has taken the “first time in history” motive from Obama’s campaign. There is something else we need to consider. McCain is 74. If he wins, he will be 78 at the end of this first term and the prospect of him trying to hang in four more years is not good. However, he would have set up a woman as the natural successor. All of the women (white women) who saw Hillary as their one chance to win the presidency will now see this as a viable option. If Obama wins, Hillary will be too old by the time he finishes two terms.
I can see the possibility that a good number of women will hold their noses and vote for McCain with the hope that this will secure the White House in four years.
I am pro Obama for reasons beyond his race. Granted this 47 year old black man would love to see him win because when I was young this was never even a dream. My big concern with McCain is his willingness to go along with the current thinking that the US can push up against Russia and continue to invade countries in the Middle East. The current power holders in the Republican Party are culturally ignorant and they feel that they know best even when they do not understand the dynamics of the regions they want to “Democratize”.
Also, while we are so focused on this presidential election, we need to keep in mind that the decisions that will affect us the most are made by our city councils, mayor’s office, zoning commission, and school board.
It would be great to see the Obama’s in the white house, but his election will not move the drug dealers that are setting up in my community. They will be on the corner the day before and the day after he takes the oath of office. It will not change the spirit of anti-education that lives in our communities. It will not make black people turn off the television. You will not see black people suddenly dominate in math and science education.
By the way, I love what you are doing.
If Barack thinks he can win this race being “Mr. Softy,” hop back on your ice cream truck and think again. Barack must stop allowing others to set a perimeter for him. Attack! Attack! Attack! before it is too late.
Barack was fooled into selecting Biden because Barack believed he was weak on foreign policy and was too green for the job. Now make Biden work for his supper (bring me Penn.) and crack the whip against all your Democrat underlings. Barack you are the boss now act like it. I do not want to hear any high profiled Democratic telling voters to vote for McCain. Tell Warner, Kaine and Webb, “go bring me Virginia.” Now some of you may find my directives too harsh and callous. White Democrats have been running it like that in the Black community for years.
As for Gov. Palin, news alert: the whole qualification issue does not apply to her so do not play it. Overrated white politician have been bringing home the brass ring for a good minute. Qualification issues only apply to “minorities.” Hit up McCain hard and ignore the Alaskan ice princesses with her grizzly bear couch throw cover. Animal rights activist where are you at? Environmentalists where are you at? Religious right where are you at? Don’t let race slow you down. Pump those fist baby!
Well, I’m so politically ignorant I don’t know what PUMAs are, so I’m missing the point of half these comments. But I will say that it was terrifically interesting to hear your thoughts on KCBS radio today. Announcing a woman as running mate on the day after Obama’s evening speech did send all the media off to cover the new development on the Republican side, very shrewd of McCain as otherwise the media would still have been covering Obama’s speech the following morning. I have to say for me personally, Obama lost some of his rockstar appeal when he picked Biden; but McCain picking a pro-Alaska-oil and anti-abortion woman doesn’t add rockstar to his campaign. So just my 2 cents, I’m still voting for Obama. Right at this moment in our history, we need Democrats more than we need Republican women in our top offices.
Monica, HRC was fortunate that she got any delegates at all out of that debacle. Everyone knew going into the primaries that MI and FL hadn’t obeyed the rules. By being on the ballot there, she could’ve been disqualified altogether. Had she not been the wife of a former president, she would’ve gotten nothing at all. And keep in mind, when that ruling went into place HRC was the frontrunner, and she agreed with it!
Further, these rules have been in place for decades now. Ever since the debacle in 1972, so to say now, 30 years later that somehow they should be changed for HRC is questionable, especially since she knew before the campaign began that they were the rules. You don’t change the rules of engagement after the battle is begun.
The bottom line is this; HRC ran a lousy campaign. I’m really not sure what the heck went wrong with them, but they looked like amateurs out there. That had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with them.
And was it the Democrats or the MSM who kept questioning the fact that she stayed in the primaries too long? They did the same thing to Mike Huckabee.
We also have to remember that Obama is running for POTUS, not to be a provisional black leader. I think it’s unfair to place some obligation on him to be a leader of less than 12% of the population when he’s running to be president. Would you expect any other candidate to do that? Or is he simply obligated to do it because he happens to have melanin? I don’t recall any other presidential candidate being required to do it, why is Obama?
Gina, did you read Monica’s post? You’re correct, it costs nothing to ask for a PUMA’s support, but it is really pointless. These people are NOT pro-HRC, they’re ANTI-Obama. It’s a totally different thing.
No, no hugging.
If a Democrat doesn’t become the next President- it won’t be because of me. It will be because not enough registered voters wanted him to win. After the last election; after the past 8 yrs; after the war; after the state of the economy some people really want me to believe that if Obama and his supporters were nicer, or just ‘asked’ for the votes of HRC supporters or Independents he would get them?
Foolish thinking.
Despite the media hype I don’t believe that so many people haven’t made up their minds yet. Of course I can’t prove it- no polls or rhetoric to back up my claims. I’ve been a registered Democrat for 28 yrs-never polled though. I make up my own mind. I explore the candidates; look @ their records, beliefs, morals and scandals. I’ve crossed party lines when I felt it was necessary. I’ve never looked for someone to court my vote nor have I been devastated when who I voted for has lost.
No, if Sen. Obama doesn’t win I won’t allow some guilt to be displaced to me.
Vote for who you want to. Live with the consequences. It is politics afterall. Promises are made, promises will be broken. Some made sincerely- but voted down in Congress.
To make your vote really count-vote in every city/town/state election that you can. Then perhaps you won’t be so mystified by the process once the ‘big’ election comes around.
Obama or McCain will need a lot of support, intelligence and guidance and prayer(if you believe in it)to govern our country in the world we live in.
@amatore and black achievement. THANK YOU!!
people may think I am not supportive of Obama, but the point of the post is democrats repeatedly misintepret their own appeal and mess up the message against the republicans.
obama supporters assume that every clinton supporter was a democratic party loyalist. they assume the barack was the only one bringing out new voters. what if hillary also brought out new voters as well who were independent women??
second amatore went down a laundry list of reasons why someone should not vote for mccain. why didn’t @ hear about any of this at the convention???
black acheivement is right. if all you got on palin is “inexperience” then that’s a loser. just like the attack on mccain’s seven houses. it is all a distraction.
last but not least. to people who are sayine biden is going to wipe the floor with her. What is the basis for that conclusion??? and why on earth would you be so foolish as to lower expectations for your opponent??? now if this woman manages to complete a single sentence, she will exceed expectations.
go after her record and not the abortion issue you nitwits! abortion isn’t necessarily a deal breaker for blue collar white women. Sorry, it just isn’t. go digging beyond the typical democratic attacks. they haven’t worked that well in the past have they??
Obama can win this thing, but you’ve got to stop assuming people Won’t vote for a republican or that people who do vote republican are crazy and write them off.
I won’t diminish what experience, skill and qualities Palin does have but being governor (and I am aware of what that means) for 20 months doesn’t automatically make one more qualified than a Senator to be President of the United States.
So I think how the experience issue is handled is still up for grabs on who it will benefit. Its not automatic that because she has an Executive branch position that she can lead the country.
I would like to know her foreign policy experience. Heck, the entire “ready to lead” question that has fairly been posed of Obama is fair for her if for no other reason than McCain’s health. For the first time since Reagan, no matter how morbid, a potential president’s health might be a talking point. “A heartbeat from the presidency” means more than it did the last 20 years.
Great comment on the rules Roslyn. It blows my mind every time anyone tries to complain about them.
Rational HRC supporters know Obama and Clinton have the same platform and that Obama didn’t, to my knowledge, do anything to her. They have already decided to vote for him.
The ones that have Web sites talking about “No Deal” don’t care what you say or do to get to them. They don’t want to vote for him. And I’m unsure of what can be done. How small or large is this unreasonable faction?
While I’m in agreement of not being nasty to HRC supporters I think the Obama campaign needs to split them up and no where his time and resources are best served. Like any other group, HRC followers, are not all the same. Some can’t be won over. So don’t bother. Don’t rip them, just politely move on.
Cinco said: No, if Sen. Obama doesn’t win I won’t allow some guilt to be displaced to me.
I’m with you on that one. Your vote, your beliefs.
I have a friend who lived in Texas under then-Gov. Bush and she voted for him for president. She’s so upset over the state of the country (and her wallet) that she’s voting for Obama. Actually, it somewhat surprised me. She’s a southern White Republican through and through. I’m not saying she’s representative of millions. Just my little story.
@emma why would you concede by encouraging a clinton supporter to vote for mckinney??? a vote for mckinney IS a vote for mccain. what is it that is so repugnant about asking hillary supporters for their vote??? I just don’t get that mentality. you would rather have her vote for another candidate than ask her to support your guy. this race is about turnout. fight for every vote including thos of disaffected clinton voters. don’t assume they are a lost cause… the republicans haven’t
@cinco, it is great that you make you voting decisions that way. unfortunately most voters aren’t like you.
Gina:
Please let me introduce myself. I am 44 yr old w/m. I am Republican. Am a political junkie. I think the Palin pick might put McCain over the top. The reason I’m writing is to say that you are a refreshing voice. The news outlets are just giant spin machines. Count me in as a regular reader!
No Rosyln,
I’m anti-Obamites.
Obama didn’t call me Uncle Tom. Obama didn’t threaten people like Tavis Smiley. Did you hear some of the things said about Stephanie Tubbs Jones and Sheila Jackson Lee?
Obamites too blind see what he has do to win the election, will be what he has do to govern. They have no criticism for him, they just want to get him in office. And if you question their saint, you are cast-out like a leper.
I wonder how many times such widespread bullying has been noted in American political history?
One of the main reasons I won’t be voting for Obama is that he stood aside and said nothing as his supporters INTIMIDATED and BROWBEAT Clinton supporters like myself. It was and continues to be distasteful display.
Was his silence affirmation? I’m assuming that it was.
@Monica,
Obama also stood/sat by the sidelines for the most part as people, the media, and old ‘friends’ took turns @ hounding, harassing, belittleing and verbally attacking his wife and himself! He doesn’t owe Hillary more than he owes himself or his loved ones.
If he doesn’t win, oh well. The people will have spoken loud and clear.
…and we will brave ourselves for @ minimum- another 4 wonderful years!
PS-please note the sarcasm.
What exactly was Obama supposed to do Monica? Beat them off with a stick? I’m not even exactly sure who these people are. Do we know that Obama was even aware that this was happening? Outside of the internet I simply haven’t seen all these attacks against black folk who supported Clinton. Most assuredly those of us who are online have a tendency to exaggerate what happens here. The fact of the matter is, most people are not on the internet following an election.
I have no idea what was said about Tavis Smiley or anyone else, but I know for a fact that no, it’s not the first time it’s happened in American history and it won’t be the last. Far as I’m concerned, unless Obama himself did these things I think it’s unfair to hold him responsible for what a bunch of nutjobs did. Much like we don’t hold HRC responsible for the fact that the PUMAs are willing to ruin the chances to win simply because they wanted a different candidate.
Interestingly enough, I didn’t become an Obama supporter until my candidate of choice was eliminated. I was very happy with pretty much the entire field of Democratic contenders and would’ve cheerfully have voted for any one of them. As I’ve said before, I would’ve preferred John Edwards and his poverty platform. I’m pragmatic enough, however, to know that this country cannot survive another term of Bush policies. I know for a fact that my family cannot. Obama’s platform certainly fits more closely with what I believe in, and make no mistake about it, a vote for anyone but Obama is a vote for McCain. Much as we discovered in 2000, all those ‘protest votes’ for Nader gained us eight years of GWB. We buys our tickets and we take our chances. Frankly, we have too much to lose at this point to jump into the abyss with McCain.
People, pause for a moment a listen to Monica. Seriously, read what she is saying and soak it in because I think she is representative of a small, yet potentially election-altering group of voters that would be so easy to place in the Obama column. I am telling y’all voters like Monica are low hanging fruit. It wouldn’t take much to woo them yet some of you arrogantly think that Obama shouldn’t have to. That the choice should be obvious.
Again, haven’t the Democrats thought the choice was OBVIOUS for the past two presidential elections?
“what is it that is so repugnant about asking hillary supporters for their vote??? ”
There’s nothing wrong with it. Obama did that months ago. He even asks folk to contribute to paying off the debt from her campaign and gave money to do so. What else are people supposed to do. HRC herself has asked them to vote for Obama, she’s thrown her pantsuit into the ring behind the man. If they won’t listen to the head of the ticket or the candidate they purport to support why on earth would anyone believe they would listen to anyone else?
@Roslyn,
I can’t understand any supporter encouraging another voter to vote for Mckinney. That IS a vote for McCain. It would be better to ask. What would Obama need to do in order to get your vote. Can the wounds you feel were inflicted upon you be healed?
BUt instead Obama supporters are throwing up their hands and not even bothering to try to persuade people like Monica.
Turnout Turnout Turnout. The Republicans ran their models and came up with this choice. Trust that Turnout was one of their primary considerations.
GEM, I understand that Monica is angry with the Obama supporters. I can certainly understand why her feelings are hurt. Of course, I’ve spent my life being called names by other black folks. I have no black card to revoke and don’t give two good goddamns what they think.
I have no problem with wooing them, but can’t imagine how one is supposed to do so. I can’t right the wrong that was done to them. You’ve been attacked by the Obama-jihadists yourself, so you know how virulent they can be.
My question is, how are we supposed to remedy something that was done by folks other than the candidate? Most Obama supporters are not fringe nutjobs. I’m voting for the man, not a messiah. I have every interest in getting someone in office other than McCain.
HRC herself has asked them to vote for Obama, she’s thrown her pantsuit into the ring behind the man. If they won’t listen to the head of the ticket or the candidate they purport to support why on earth would anyone believe they would listen to anyone else?
Roslyn, at the convention, they viewed it more as Hillary falling on her sword. IE, she didn’t really mean it!!!
I guess my feeling about the Hillary supporters is that they aren’t out of reach. I don’t think they’ve gotten nearly as much pandering and pampering as they could get.
Gina, I didn’t encourage ANYONE to vote for McKinney. Personally, I think McKinney is nuts. As I said, a vote for McKinney IS a vote for McCain.
I’m still trying to figure out what it is that they want OBAMA to do, not his supporters, OBAMA. He didn’t do anything to these people, how is he supposed to remedy a situation that he didn’t create, didn’t encourage and hell may not even know about.
“I don’t think they’ve gotten nearly as much pandering and pampering as they could get.”
Pandering and pampering by whom? What more can OBAMA do? He asked for their support, and gave them as much money as he legally could. He’s praised their candidate to the skies in a way I’ve never heard the head of a ticket do before in the almost forty years I’ve been following politics.
And if they don’t believe the candidate they supposedly support, why on earth would they believe Obama?
I’ve followed the Clintons for more than thirty years. I know these people very well, and I can guarantee one thing they most assuredly DO NOT want to see McCain win in November. WJC wants a seat on the SCOTUS so badly he can taste it, and HRC wants either a cabinet seat or to be majority whip. None of that can happen with a McCain presidency. They know it and understand those facts. So HRC definitely meant it when she threw her hand in with McCain. Indeed, I’ll be very surprised if she doesn’t become the ‘attack dog in chief’ against Palin.
@Roslyn,
I don’t think Bill Clinton was disbarred. I think that pretty much makes him being appointed to the Supreme Court a non starter.
Why wouldn’t Hillary want McCain to win? If McCain wins, she gets another shot in 2012 as opposed to 2016.Plus she gets to say “I told y’all SO!”
From what I understan Clinton and McCain have a relationship of some sort. If Clinton didn’t want McCain to be at an advantage, then why did she fight until the bitter end going into more debt in the process? I don’t think we know Hillary CLinton nearly as much a we think they do . Bill is easy to understand. He loves to be loved. Hillary is more complex.
Have you seen Geraldine Ferraro’s approval of the Palin choice?
correction. I meant to say Clinton WAS disbarred.
I think pretty much everyone knows that Clinton’s disbarment was more of a political issue than anything. I’m not sure, but I think a seat on the Court is still possible. I know for a fact that he certainly doesn’t want to go down in history as the man who kept the Democrats out of office. He’s obsessed with his place in history. He’s turned a bit strange of late, some say it’s the heart attack, I’m really not sure, but he still has that desperate need to be loved.
HRC is still a relatively young woman, I doubt very seriously that she would want to run against an incumbent Republican president. Especially since given McCain’s age and his cancer issues may well be another woman. Running against an incumbent is much harder, especially given the baggage that she brings in. I think majority whip or even a cabinet position is a much surer bet for her.
She and McCain might have a relationship. I know Biden and McCain do. He was always pretty popular with Democrats. More popular than he was with Republicans actually, which is why he’s so desperate to appeal to the right, a group he’s always disdained before. And even more reason why we should be doing everything to keep him out of office.
HRC is only 61 years old, in eight years she’ll STILL be younger than McCain is now, so I don’t think she’d be desperate enough to want a McCain presidency.
If Hillary supporters flock to Palin and McCain it’s a clear indication that their support of Hillary was never based on anything substantive. Both Palin and McCain have a platform and ideology that is the complete opposite of Clinton’s. If you truly believed in Hillary’s platform and believed her presidency would genuinly serve your interest best, than it should be impossible to now embrace someone who has a plan for America that is the exact opposite of what you believed only a few months ago. I believe that people that are this passionate about not voting for Obama are incapable of being wooed, because the issues are less relevent than the individuals. Whether it’s because of gender loyalty, race or sore feeling over the primaries, there are a certain group of people who under no circumstances will vote for Obama. I liken these people who those who still believe he’s a muslim or unpatriotic or those who believe Michele’s a black militant. This group is very dogmatic. Some of Hillary’s votes where not just votes for her, but votes against him.
However, there are some Hillary supporters who do still believe in the causes she championed and want to see a platform similar to hers flourish in this country and believe her platform will serve them best. For these voters, I believe Obama and his supporters have the opportunity to make the case for why an Obama/Biden administration will accomplish these goals. Obama has been doing this and I think he will keep doing this up until election day.
I feel the McCain’s Palin pick actually makes me believe the republicans are nervous about winning. Being a mayor of a town of 9000 and the governor of a state for almost 2 years that is smaller than most cities, is not the type of experience I feel prepares you to lead this country. I also believe that McCains experience, while lengthy, doesn’t necessarily make him more prepared to lead the country either. I’ve always felt that Obama’s experience and record in the state legislator and the senate was strong. And his background, education and lifetime in public service make him a particularly well qualified candidate. I always felt he was better qualified that Hillary and he needs to continue to make the case.
plus
sarah got a gun
Iman said:
If Hillary supporters flock to Palin and McCain it’s a clear indication that their support of Hillary was never based on anything substantive. Both Palin and McCain have a platform and ideology that is the complete opposite of Clinton’s. If you truly believed in Hillary’s platform and believed her presidency would genuinly serve your interest best, than it should be impossible to now embrace someone who has a plan for America that is the exact opposite of what you believed only a few months ago.
****
Exactly.
*
Iman said:
I believe that people that are this passionate about not voting for Obama are incapable of being wooed, because the issues are less relevent than the individuals. Whether it’s because of gender loyalty, race or sore feeling over the primaries, there are a certain group of people who under no circumstances will vote for Obama. I liken these people who those who still believe he’s a muslim or unpatriotic or those who believe Michele’s a black militant. This group is very dogmatic. Some of Hillary’s votes where not just votes for her, but votes against him.
*****
Completely agree with Iman
@all those who think it is a waste of time to try to woo Clinton voters, my question is…. What is the harm in trying?
THAT’S the part I don’t get. What’s the harm in trying because CLEARLY that is what the Republicans are doing. What if you are all wrong. What if this does peel off women? Why not hedge your bets?
Roslyn,
Interesting you should bring up Nader 2000 as the reason for Bush being in office. I don’t see it that way. Most of the people who voted for Nader were independents, progressives or Greens who hadn’t been part of the mainstream politic anyway and young people who hadn’t voted before. You can’t necessarily say they would have voted for Gore.
Gore lost because of Gore. Remember he didn’t even carry his home state of Tennessee. If he had, that would have offset the electoral loss in Florida. We can’t blame Nader or Nader voters for Gore not being able to connect to voters.
When I think of wasting votes, I think of that wasted vote for Gore when he conceded. I think of that wasted vote for Kerry. I voted for him thinking that while he was the lesser of two evils, with his qualifications and the country in the state it was,he might win and end the reign of Bush. I didn’t count on him not being able to scrap. I didn’t count on him being so out of touch with everyday people.
Now I’m not concerned about who could win. I’ll vote the person whose message I (me, Monica) believe in, not what I should believe in. Someone who shares my vision of an ideal America.
Now I ask myself, do you really want to support someone who supports FISA? Do you want to support a black so afraid of offending white people, that he reduces MLK to “preacher from Georgia” in his nomination speech? If he feels that he has to do that, are we really making racial progress?
Should you vote for someone who represents the thing you hate most about black bourgeois (yes, I’m back to that damn Father’s Day speech and that cold Popeye’s chicken comment)? Do you want to be a black voter who supports such a black candidate?
As a progressive who supported Edward’s poverty programs, isn’t McKinney’s Green party platform more in line with your beliefs. Wouldn’t it be a wasted vote if Obama accomplishes nothing in terms of poverty eradication or universal healthcare? Trust those flip-flops are not going to be reversed when he gets into office.
Just something to thing about.
Finally I want you to know: HRC wasn’t my first choice. I initially supported Bill Richardson. I thought with his background (executive experience, legislative experience and diplomatic experience) he would be ideal for the country at this time. I liked that he didn’t downplay the fact that he was Latino. I expected him to bring issues like immigration and immigrant rights to the forefront.
After that didn’t work out, I supported HRC because (in addition to being re-elected senator from NY) as a woman, I knew she would bring women’s issues to the forefront and she did, her commitment to children’s issue, those of working mothers and health care is unquestioned.
Both of those candidates were running for the presidency of the United States, not La Raza or NOW. They didn’t run away from identity politics.
So, does it make sense for me to vote for a black candidate who has put my history at arm’s length?
GEM, I’m still asking you what exactly more do you want Obama to do? You still haven’t answered the question. He’s praised her to the skies. He’s asked for their support and he’s donated money to her campaign. What more is there for a candidate to do to win someone’s support?
Wrong, right or otherwise I can’t imagine what more Obama could do to ask for support.
Monica, Obama is a viable candidate who’s platform is more in line with my beliefs. I don’t believe in throwing my vote away on candidates who don’t have a chance of winning. With Obama I don’t get a totally progressive agenda, but at least I don’t get a REGRESSIVE agenda.
I have supported Green candidates in the past, but would not support McKinney. I feel that she is unnecessarily abrasive and her track record in Congress is much less than admirable.
I’m not surprised Gore didn’t carry Tennessee. You’d have to know Tennessee to understand why. It is a very odd state as we saw with the Harold Ford, Jr. campaign.
As for race politics, personally I’m thrilled that Obama has avoided that. Nothing gets on my nerves worse. I don’t hold him to a different standard. So, no that particular argument holds no bearing with me.
As for Obama’s putting your history at arm’s length, I think it’s easy to forget that his history and your history are not one and the same. I’m not particularly interested in a president for the purpose of ‘making racial progress.’ That’s not his job. Right now I want a president who will get us out of this war, and get the economy going before we wind up in worse shape.
I would not vote for someone who ran as a ‘black’ president or a ‘hispanic’ president. We’ve had decades of that and I am heartily sick of it. Obama has made it clear that he’s running as POTUS of all the people. He’s not the first who has had to distance himself in that way. JFK did it, hell for that matter so did Mitt Romney. Nobody wants to go to the polls and have to wonder if someone is Catholic first and then American, and they sure as hell don’t want to have to worry about them putting race first. Makes perfectly good sense to me.
Roslyn,
Our history may be different but my history and the history of people like me is what gave him the nomination. Has any Democratic candidate before ever claimed greater than 90% of the black vote?
But the fact remains, your history is not his history. And Democrats have had strong black support since the Dixiecrat days of the sixties. I’m sure Clinton came close to those numbers. Much as I liked him, at times he annoyed me with his pandering for the black vote. As a black woman I want more or less what most Americans want. I don’t need my president to represent my history for me. I do it every day in my own home.
Well if that’s the case Roslyn, you have the ideal candidate for you.
I should add I lived in MA when Romney ran for governor. I voted for Shannon O’Brien, the female candidate.
He said what he had to say to win. Romney term was a disaster. It turns out that the candidate who happened to be a Mormon ended up being the Mormon governor of one of the liberal states in the nation.
I think most candidates say what they need to be elected. It is a political reality. Nothing new, it has always been that way.
@Roslyn
Trying to convince someone who was never going to vote for Obama anyway is futile. No amount of hugging or trying to be nice is going to work.
@Monica.
Obama should be President of the United States, NOT the President of Black People. Obama is as much white as he is black. Don’t pull the “He’s not black enough” card. That’s quite sad. It would be holding Obama to a different standard than other white candidates and last time I checked, black issues are American issues.
@La Belle,
How did she play the “he’s not black enough” card. Her point as I understood it was that in exchange for 90% of their vote, African Americans have not gotten whatever it is she thinks that they should get in return.
@everybody I turned off the sound. You know its bad when you are tired of hearing your own voice. You can still play the utterz, but it won’t play automatically
Gina said: How did she play the “he’s not black enough” card. Her point as I understood it was that in exchange for 90% of their vote, African Americans have not gotten whatever it is she thinks that they should get in return.
******
Monica stated:
(Bill Richardson)I liked that he didn’t downplay the fact that he was Latino. I EXPECTED him to bring issues like immigration and immigrant rights to the forefront.
I supported HRC because… as a WOMAN, I KNEW she would bring women’s issues to the forefront and she did, her commitment to children’s issue, those of working mothers and health care is unquestioned.
Both of those candidates were running for the They didn’t run away from IDENTITY politics.
*******
La Belle Femme Reponses
The fact that Obama is black (he’s really mixed anyway) should not be the barometer for him to bring up “black issues”. Same for Richardson to bring up “latino issues” and HRC with “women’s issues” Why should he be expected to? African American have consistently voted for Democratic candidates more than 80-90% levels and no one has ever asked a WHITE candidate to talk about “black issues”. We did not ask tough questions to Kerry, we did not ask tough questions to Gore and YET somehow, Obama is placed on a pedestal for discussing all thing black to America. Completely different standard.
@Monica. I honestly believe you have some great points too! Just know that there are many folks who support Obama but, at the same time they have issues with some of his policies (i.e. his stance on affirmative action, his speeches aimed at African American and the Biden pick)
My support doesn’t mean that I won’t try and hold Obama accountable on issues that dispportinaly affects us. I still think Obama is the better choice in the bigger scheme of things. We have the economy (national debt, jobs, homes, gas, wages etc), the war in Iraq, and seats on the Supreme Court all at stake. These issues outweighed my issues. We need to strategically think about who can realistically win and get things moving in the right direction.
@ La Belle Femme -It has been said that when America catches a cold, Black Americans catch pneumonia point being don’t chide her for wanting to ensure that African American are represented at the table…which personally I don’t think will happen within this administration. Unlike other groups (i.e. Jews, unions, gays, Hispanics etc). We a.k.a African-Americans don’t have an agenda back-up by money which is what get’s you seat to represent your cause and determine how policy is made. Also if he doesn’t want to known as the “black candidate” then tell his to stop referring to himself that way.
@La Belle
Okay I missed that, y’all are commenting so much on this. I still don’t think that she is saying he isn’t Black enough. Or at least I don’t think that is what she was trying to say.
How can you say that there is a completely different standard when Obama is getting a larger percentage of the Black vote than probably any Democrat in history. So much that the Obama campaign admitted that they didn’t even create their polling models to account for the intensity of Black support. Clearly his Black-ness isn’t a problem with 9 out of 10 Black people.
lildiva4u said “We a.k.a African-Americans don’t have an agenda back-up by money which is what get’s you seat to represent your cause and determine how policy is made.”
I learned that this week. Money talks. If you want to be taken seriously you have to either produce bodies or bucks. A) we don’t have a legislative of policy agenda and B) we don’t have organized money.
The Democratic Party had control, true veto-proof control, of the Congress (the Senate and the House of Representatives!!!) for several decades after WW2. Along with control of Congress, they also controlled the executive branch, during many of those years. The Democrats had a tremendous amount of power for a long, long, long time. Enough time to really implement a social safety net of tiny holes, similar to what citizens of the EU and Scandinavian countries enjoy.
Why did the Democratic Party, in all their years of holding power, when they could have implemented “change that we [Americans] can believe in”, never bring single-payer, universal health care into being for the citizens of the USA?
So, [some of] you would have me believe that today, when their hold on power is tenuous, at best, that I should vote for a Democratic candidate out of fear of Republican control? In 2006 we gave that merry band of corporatists a slim margin of control (enough, at least, to filibuster!) to stop funding the wars, which would finally end them: They did no such thing.
Heck, they could have prevented the very young and rabidly right-wing jurists, Stevens and Roberts, from being seated on the Supreme Court.
Unlike many black Americans, my vote was never a given for Obama. My vote has never been his to lose. I did not vote for him during the Democratic primary in my state; I shalln’t be voting for him come November in the general election. There are other choices: Perhaps, Nader or McKinney; perhaps, no one, no party. I am not fearful of not voting for a presidential candidate; neither am I fearful of McCain winning. Fortunately, as it concerns voting, here in San Francisco, Cindy Sheehan is on the ballot to run against “impeachment is off the table” Nancy Pelosi. I plan to vote for Sheehan (although, with three candidates on the ticket running against Pelosi, Sheehan’s chances of winning are slim).
There is more that one can do to “change” the world than to vote once every four years. To quote Emma Goldman: “If voting made a difference, it would be illegal.” Her statement has proven to be correct, because as far as improving and respecting the lives of Americans are concerned, voting, giving power to the Democrats, the alleged party of the people, for years and years and years has made no difference. Here we are, eight years into a new century, and the lives that many of us are living in these United States are horrible.
thelildiva4u said:
“point being don’t chide her for wanting to ensure that African American are represented at the table…”
Me:
The fact that African Americans NEVER asked of this when a WHITE candidate was running, i.e. Kerry and Gore speaks volumes.
What exactly do people want Obama to do “specifically” for black people? That Father’s Day Speech that Obama gave was brillant. Can Obama force black kids to go to school? Can he force some black fathers to stay in their children’s lives?
Obama would make a good President in terms of big issues like foreign policy, unions, & immigration. For more local issues in the black community, African American should be lobbying their local representatives at the grassroot levels.
Did anyone hear the story floating around that Palin’s 16 year old daughter is actually the mother of the young baby with down syndrome? I know it is gossip for now, but the National Enquirer also broke the Edwards story too.
Obama had a hand tied behind his back because of Hillpatine and he didn’t want to fall into the trap of the Big Black Brute attacking the Poor Defenseless White Woman.
I knew, once she was out of the way, he’d have no problem attacking McCain.
Now, they’re throwing another White woman in his way.
Neither he nor Joe should attack this women.
That’s why there are female Democrats.
Palin is James Dobson in a dress.
And, she should be treated as such.
@Naima
I read that rumor about the baby. One small problem. I don’t think it was a home birth and pulling that off would require a heck of a lot of coordination with hospital staff. Second. Palin had amnio which predicted that the baby would have Down Syndrome, if it was the daughter, again, that would require a heck of a lot about cooperations.
Third, due to her advanced age, the likely hood of an extra chromosome in the baby increases so the fact that she was 44 is consistent with an increased liklihood of Down syndrome.
Fourth and most importantly…. SHE’S BREAST FEEDING!
Now that would be a heck of a challenge to get a non pregnant woman to lactate. I suppose you could do it with hormones.
Gina said: Okay I missed that, y’all are commenting so much on this. I still don’t think that she is saying he isn’t Black enough. Or at least I don’t think that is what she was trying to say.
***
I didn’t really mean that Monica said he’s wasn’t black enough but it is the expectation that because he is black, he MUST focus on African American issues which I think is wrong.
Like you said in your other comment. MONEY TALKS. African Americans should be organizing on a grass roots level to push our issues to the forefront. Just simply having a African American politican is NOT enough. Clarence Thomas, anyone? Organizing and Lobbying and raising money are really the only way to BRING our issues to the table. Voting is still not enough.
I would never say that Obama or anyone else was “not black enough”. I don’t even know what that means.
When I referred to identity politics I meant there’s a difference in the politics of Alberto Gonzales and Bill Richardson; Gov Palin and Sen Clinton; JC Watts and John Conyers. It doesn’t mean that one is less Latino or female or black than the other. It means the way they view race or gender and the role it plays in daily lives is different.
rikyrah said “Now, they’re throwing another White woman in his way. Neither he nor Joe should attack this women. ”
And THAT would be on of the many reasons this was a cunning choice. Obama Biden now have to figure out how to go after her IF at all. I recommend ignoring her. Dukakais went after Quayle and you see how that turned out. She was a cunning choice if for no other reason than she shored up his base and made the democrats off balance. I don’t think they should attack her at all. Ignore her and let the media to the heavy lifting. Stay above the fray because if the Dems screw this up, there might not be enough time to recover. NEW HAMPSHIRE anybody??? PS. By having all this talk about experience, the Democrats are walking right into McCain’s trap. By bringing up her experience, they are brining up Obama’s. McCain can sit back and watch. The dems will do his work for him.
@monica,
the “You’re saying he’s not Black enough.” is a tried and true tactic of Obama accolytes. Thats why that lept out at me. It is reverse psychology, its purpose is the same as calling Hillary supporters Uncle Toms and race traitors… to make people feel guilty or uncomfortable for not supporting Obama.
The same goes for the “Y’all holding him to a higher standard.”
Its like Acolyte Jedi mind tricks and you just fell for it.
Yoda Gina Says “Came back, you did to defend yourself.”
@Monica
If Obama had gone the route of Bill Richardson and HRC, he would have never gotten past Iowa. Obama’s entire campaign or at least the media’s portrayal has been about Transcending race. To the media, to white people. He is a “different” kind of black and that is why Obama is the nominee today. HRC is ALLOWED to talk about being a woman, (white woman privilige). Obama is NOT allowed to talk about being the first black president. He is just a President.
I absolutely see your point but Obama is placed to a different standard in the eyes of the media and a majority white population.
My solution has always been that African Americans have to organize at the grassroot level. Have our issues heard on a local level and work our way up.
“Its like Acolyte Jedi mind tricks and you just fell for it.”
Yeah. I did. I realized it after hit submit.
I should know better by now.
Gina, I think it’s interesting that you’re encouraging Obama supporters to stop attacking PUMAs, yet you yourself have no hesitancy in calling people who support Obama ‘acolytes’ as if they’re some mindless followers of his.
I’m nobody’s acolyte, but I do believe it’s unfair to expect Obama to support ‘identity politics.’ How do we know that he isn’t doing exactly that? Why do we have the right to tell him what his ‘identity’ is? He’s said from the jump that he doesn’t believe in a divided America and for many people all these hyphenated Americans is bad news.
To hold him to a different standard simply because he has black skin is unfair. That’s not Jedi mind tricks, it’s simple fairness.
I’m going to say and then I have to go out. It’s too beautiful a day to spend playing on the internets.
That “brilliant” Father’s Day Speech:
1. We have a Black nominee for president who is a black father. Instead of using the opportunity to celebrate black fatherhood, he lambasted black fathers. This was not done for the benefit not of black people. We know some absentee fathers are an issue. We also know that just living with your children doesn’t make you a good father and not living with children doesn’t mean that you are not. Maybe if he was just speaking to black people, he would have brought up that point. But he wasn’t. He was addressing white people and talking at (and down) to certain segments of African Americans to show that it can criticize coloreds.
Who needs right-wing nuts advocating sterilization, when we have black candidates chastising black fathers.
2. It’s been my experience, that the most ardent and earliest supporters of Obama were black men, most of them fathers. I’m sure they are those among them who don’t live with their children.
I imagine it must have felt like a kick in the gut to hear him make those statements. To hear someone you’ve placed so much in resorting to the rhetoric of white politicians.
Who does that to his base?
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/what-is-mccain-thinking-one-alaskans-perspective/
Maybe if he was just speaking to black people?…
Who does that to his base?
****
That’s assuming “his base” is only black people and it’s not. If every black person were to vote for him, it still would not put Obama in the White House. He still needs a diverse group of people to win.
He can’t speak “just to black people”. He’s the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States, not of Black people.
You’re assuming that because of his “skin color”, he has to be with black people and “black” issues. Clarence Thomas proves that wrong.
—
What puzzles me the most is what exactly do people expect Obama to do “specifically” for black people, that he can’t do for all Americans. Why do we assume because of skin color, that he’s going to give us the hookup.
Simply because he is black mixed or that blacks vote for him is NOT enough for him to listen to black people.
I’ve said before, black folks need to organize, organize, organize.
Once Obama is in the White House, you enter a bubble and only the most organized group of people will have his ears.
Women-NOW
Jews-AIPAC, Anti-Defamation League
Auto Workers- UAW
Social conversatives- Evangelical lobby
Gay people- LGBT movement
Fiscal conservatives- Heritage Foundation
Hispanics- La Raza
et cetera…
Black people- Congressional Black Causus??? Rainbow Coalition???
No organization, No money, No lobby, No talk.
Having the same skin Color is not going to cut it in a Capitalist system.
You know what…I’m really worried for Biden. I used to think that he’d crush Palin in the VP debates but he has to go easy on her lest he’s called a sexist. It shall be interesting.
@La Belle Femme thelildiva4u said: Me: The fact that African Americans NEVER asked of this when a WHITE candidate was running, i.e. Kerry and Gore speaks volumes”
Ahh! I believe they did. It’s just that we never got to see the fruits of those request play out b/c Kerry and Gore lost. Now maybe during the Clinton era we saw some glimpses (i.e. Ron Brown (United States Secretary of Commerce (business and industry), Alexis Herman (Department of Labor (jobs) Hazel O’Leary, an African-American woman, as secretary of energy, Dr. Joycelyn Elders he tried for Lani Guinier to head the Civil Rights Division, but she was a “radical,” Mike Espy as secretary of agriculture; Jesse Brown, ran the Disabled American Veterans office in Washington, and Clifton Wharton, Jr., chairman of TIAA-CREF, as deputy secretary of state) All headed, expect one, agency that disprotpitonaly affect Africans Americans. Now I will use the old polticially line. Is your life better now or 15 years ago?
The problem really lies in that the politicking goes on behind closed doors and it’s usually done by a member of Congress, since AA’s don’t have an agenda and/or money.
These congress folks are either jocking for committees, nominating some person to run a federal agency, or trying to a friend/family member a political appoinment. That’s why so many congress folks were Hillary supports before the Obama tide came in. They knew if they came out for her early and got her (as Gina said) bodies then those congress folks, at the very least, could have Hillary’s ear on certain issues that were important to them.
Sorry for the typos
@ La Belle Femme…totally agree with you about “us” organizing. We need an agenda, bodies, and a boat load of cash! This will not only serve us well on the national level but on the local level too.
I think most of this discussion reveals that folks on this board are simply too thoughtful and intelligent for their own good. Y’all really think that MCain’s pick actually had to make sense? Do you really think that he his message has to be coherent or consistent?
Take a look at the photos from the People Magazine article about the Palin/McCain families. What do you see? Two “attractive” white women who also happen to be very powerful people – one is a billionaire chairwoman and the other just became the vice presidential candidate for a major political party. They are flanked by their “beautiful” daughters, which reinforces that despite their accomplishments they have not forsaken their “first duty” – motherhood.
Where is Old Man McCain? In the back, barely sticking his head out from between his wife and Palin. Aside from him, everyone in the picture looks young, fresh, beautiful, vibrant – “wholesome.” This picture is why he chose Palin. There are many people who will vote for that picture – the epitome of the wholesome (re: evangelical Christian), all-American (re: white) family. A new breed of conservative family values that embraces the leadership of women (so long as they keep taking care of the kids). It’s called evangelical feminism, and it’s been around for at least 100 years. They’ve just never had a public champion on the political stage.
Now they do. Palin makes their “lifestyle” and their “values” attractive. She reinforces their image of themselves and her “youth” says to every young conservative, “We’re cool too!” It is identity poltiics at its finest. It has much less to do with attracting Hillary supporters than it does giving their own dissaffected youth, women, and hardline conservatives a reason to get back in the game.
This election will be won the way every presidential election is one: who can excite their supporters the most leading up to election day. Excitement and enthusiasm = turnout. Forget debates over policies and experience. Presidential elections are about pictures and stories. That’s what McCain just offered his party – a picture and a story they could fall in love with.
From the People article
Meghan McCain on her father’s choice for VP:
“It’s girl power and you know I’m all about that. She’s very smart, has a sweet family. Her son’s in the military and my brothers are in the military. We have a lot in common. This is my dream choice. I almost started crying on stage – and I am not a crier – when they were talking about this being the anniversary of women’s suffrage. I couldn’t be more proud. It’s also a reinvention of the Republican Party. She’s such a cool role model – and she’s got great shoes!”
Gina, your post was spot-on. Everyone’s talking about hugging a PUMA, but I’d also like to add that McCain’s pick of Palin as his VP could also appeal to conservative Democrats. They aren’t talked about much because PUMA’s are getting a lot of the attention, but they’re out there and not too enthused about the direction the left wing of the Democrat party has taken. This VP pick could convince them to cross the aisle and vote for McCain. Just something else to think about.
There is a lack of solid and consistent organization by Blacks as a whole. I think it would be more effective to have smaller groups that cover our diverse interests and they may not always be part of a ‘Black’ group.
So many have been awakened this election but it’s all in a big frenzy and people are trying to make up for lost time and not having participated so actively before. Also people are still relying too much on a top down mentality and wanting someone else to do the heavy lifting. I seriously wonder how many of the stan-ish Obama voters have spent volunteering and donating to the campaign versus arguing and being angry at the non-supporters/questioners.
For those that don’t want McCain in office, want Obama to cover certain policy profiles or say and do something NOW is the time to get off the couch…or computer even. This requires work, going outside the comfort zone and even hugging a PUMA. I haven’t seen him refuse to do something per se – except not defend Michelle quick enough. If you got the chance to bend his ear what would you want? Or would it be like those men at that rally who spoke their minds but had not done the research on the things they were complaining about.
I was never a Hillary supporter but would’ve voted for her if she’d been the nominee. Ideally this will be the case. Realistically the next 8-9 weeks are gonna be a fight down to the wire. This has been an exciting election season. Everybody needs to step it up a notch.
I really liked Edwards’ poverty platform but there was something about him I couldn’t quite place and found shady – who knew. And no I didn’t believe everything Hill or Bill said so I am certain their supporters might not either.
And Gina, Michelle Martin was on Real Time w/ Bill Maher (HBO) last night. She’s a ‘real’ journalist, lol. She said it would be the detriment of the Dems to attack or underestimate Palin and even told Bill he should careful with how he was framing his jokes about her.
And in all of this discussion it did not go unnoticed how AT&T had the big ad next to the jumbotron. There’s way too much corporate influence in both Parties.
Roslyn said “Gina, I think it’s interesting that you’re encouraging Obama supporters to stop attacking PUMAs, yet you yourself have no hesitancy in calling people who support Obama ‘acolytes’ as if they’re some mindless followers of his.”
Your point is well taken Roslyn. The PUMA suggestion is merely a strategic political ploy. I ain’t saying you have to love PUMAS, only that it makes strategic sense to make them feel wanted as opposed to pariahs thus sending them into the loving arms of John McCain and Sarah Palin.
I don’t think all Obama supporters are acolytes. When have I said all Obama supporters are blindly following Obama? In fact, I don’t think Acolytes are following him at all. I don’t think acolytes believe in Hope and Change. I believe that they have their own private ambitions and are merely living vicariously through Obama and feel that their private ambitions make it permissible to harass other people.
I think acolytes are one of the greatest barriers to him getting into the White House. I knew that their unnecessary burning of bridges would come back to haunt him and Palin got picked BECAUSE of the way many Clinton supporters feel they have been treated. I actually have pretty ridiculous stories about what happened on caucus night in Texas. They were out of control. I’m talking physically menacing Clinton supporters at caucuses. Booing random ridiculousness. I don’t think that that is what Michelle and Barack are about.
I can assure you that Obama will not lose a single vote because I mock his most over bearing and annoying “supporters.”
I chose to openly mock acolytes to send the message that this was a safe place for all Black women, even those who didn’t agree with the acolytes. I think I have accomplished that. We’ve had 140 comments and I have only had to delete three. It’s my own odd way of trying to keep balance in the force.
Yoda Gina says to Roslyn “Consider I will Your Point.”
@VJ
I forget that there are conservative Democrats. That is a good point. As I was sitting there listening to the speech at INVESCO I was wondering “How the heck are we going to pay for all of this in a recession with two wars going on?”
Your post is spot-on! Obama needs to hire you. I couldn’t believe I was watching this inevitable DNC train wreck. I voted Hillary in the primaries, my partner Obama. I thought Obama was not experienced enough, but the DNC shenanigans and the vile from the Obama supporters did not help. Bloggers on the DNC site and elsewhere told Hillary voters “we don’t need you”!! Crazy- never say you don’t need voters. Now my partner & I are voting McCain-Palin because of their history of standing up and shaking things up.
Sorry, I should say in my last post “SOME Obama supporters”, or as you have said, acolytes.
There’s probably nothing Obama can do to sway rabid HRC followers over to his side, but there’s plenty his rabid followers can do to help persuade the not-so-rabid undecided white (women) voters to vote for the Obama-Biden ticket.
Obama-Biden won’t win this election with the black vote alone.
If we come away with anything from this discussion it oughta be that if we’re serious about seeing an Obama-Biden bus roll up to the White House in January 2009 we all better get going trying to reach out and talking to those white (women) voters on our jobs and next door we don’t usually talk to. Gulp. Taking the initiative to engage in our own “Kum Ba Yah” talks with these folks, when and where the occasion presents itself.
Start singing now: Kum Ba Yah…
I have met and dealt with HRC supporters. Most of them are just regular people who really wanted their candidate to win. She did not and they have dealt with the reality of that fact. Most of the squabbling and bickering that has gone on during the primary race was within the Democratic camp.
I have been voting since the seventies. I am a member of that first generation of young adults who were granted the right to say who would be in the leadership of the nation. I know how it feels when your candidate looses the battle. It is difficult to take that loss. Especially if it is believed that they were the person who would best represent your personal and collective interests.
This election has done a lot to us as a people. We have seen the best and the worst of us. There have been times when I have been totally turned off by supporters of all the camps involved. The manner in which ideas and exchanges have gone down is no less than rude and insulting. Unfortunately it is nothing new on the end of the voters.
Even if every candidate who ran for office spoke up and out against impolite and nasty behavior, it would not stop. The individual who forwards this type of action is the one who is responsible for what comes out from their end.
One trend that I did not like from day one was the turning on each other because we exercised our fundamental right to choose who to support. I really hate how we attack each other’s blackness because we all don’t agree. It is one of the oldest divisional stances that we use as a collective group of people. Who is so black in America that they can define another persons blackness? I know of no such individual. If they exist would someone hip me to who that is? I would like to know how they acquired that level of judgement?
I never doubted for one moment that this was going to be one of the biggest political battles in this nation’s story. Even if the script had been flipped, it was going to be one helluva fight.
Paulin is in the arena. And yes it does up the anty. But in reality, the people of this nation will do as we always have on election day. We will go to the polls, vote for whom ever we believe is our choice and that is when we will know which leader will emerge triumphant. In this case there will be more than one team of disappointed nominees.
As far as embracing those who are disappointed about their candiates loss, it can and should be done. In reality there are going to be former Clinton supporters who are not going to vote for a person of color nor will they vote for a white woman with conservative values. Now how those numbers will work out remains to be seen. That view won’t really be in place until the polls close in November.
I live in Ohio. I find myself being more concerned with not having my right to vote tampered with in this next election. Which is an experience I had during the 2004 election. While everyone is bickering about candidates, who is keeping track of what is going on regarding voters rights? No matter who we are going to vote for as individuals, if we are not mindful of the how the officials are handling what will be a record turn out, we may find that in the end, we were all duped.
Sorry I took up so much space Gina. But I just feel that it is past due time for arguing about certain aspects of American politics.
Gina is correct that the repubs don’t need all 18 million Hillary voters; two or three million of them will put McCain/Palin over the top. And anyone who thinks the PUMAs are going quietly back into the fold should look here: http://blog.pumapac.org/
and here: http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26420
Follow any of the associated links to other Hillary sites and see what they are saying.
Gina: nice work at the convention.
Wow, this exploded since my last visit.
Brava Gina for making this a safe place for discussion of competing ideas. The level of groupthink among Obama supporters has been scary. I don’t think this was in Martin’s dream.
I am writing to give Monica some support. See below a good, logic based, reference blog to answer questions about what DNC “did” to Clinton, and in doing so, also “did” to Barack’s candidacy.
http://tinyurl.com/58bedh
It hurts Barack when people are encouraged to believe that there was a clear-cut, hands-down victory in this race, there just wasn’t.
Rather than a hug, Clinton supporters would appreciate an acknowledgment of the facts of the race. This has not come from the DNC or from the Obama campaign. Although I do not think Clinton should have accepted, the 3am text and, not considering Clinton for VP was old school, nasty politics.
Branding someone a racist for complimenting Jesse Jackson, was old school, nasty politics. (Jackson ran a thrilling – game changing campaign that was accelerated by his SC win). If Barack was\is truly in charge of his campaign, these old school nasty acts came from him.
I learned long ago to push accountability to policy and not to fall in love with any politician unless their track record of accomplishment has been good to me.
My questions about Barack are policy based; personal responsibility is a Reagan era talking point, I do not like it. His support for Thomas and Scalia’s position on guns and death penalty make me worried about who he will appoint to the Supreme Court. His tendency to compromise (FISA, IL “present votes”) rather than find opportunities for cooperation that preserve his power, worries me.
His statement in the first meeting with Hillary supporters after the primaries, “they’ll get over it” because “they have no place else to go” was arrogant (not uppity just arrogant).
I think the PUMA talk and PUMAs are overblown, but it is easy to understand how Barack’s vagueness on issues (yes i’ve read the website) and track record for “flexibility” or “no shows” on pivotal votes is less than convincing when you’re trying to figure out who to vote for for president.
I would love to support Barack, but right now, the strongest thing pushing me to do so, is that he is black.
No I will not vote for McCain.
Ooops, i got so charged up reading the dialog that i forgot the thing i intended to post, on Palin.
I see the Palin choice as pure Rovian in your face strategy, designed to distract Barack’s strategists and dominate political discussions. Any criticism made of Palin, can also easily be made of Barack, creating the circular conversations like the one’s here for the next two months. I think that, and getting the conservatives off his back, is the point of the pick.
Rumors have grown like an uncontainable wildfire overnight as to whether Gov. Palin is Trig’s biological mother or grandmother. Watch this video filmed on 2/20/08 of the governor “hiking” to work. Trig was born less than 2 months later. Governor Palin’s a liar
To heck with hugging a PUMA, the olive branch was given out to HRC Fanatics the moment the writing was on the wall that she lost. They chose to act “scorned” at percieved slights that HRC brought on her self from the clumsy way she communicated her campaign.
There is no compromising with some one who doesnt want to play ball and has revenge on there mind as HRC’s Fanatics do.
What do they want us to do pin Barack to the cross for some silver, so they can be happy? The bottom line is that they wanted the White House of which they are under the impression they have a birth right to. Anything short of that is unacceptable to them. You cant build off of that.
As for the Fanatics stuffing McCains ballot, I call bull@!# if your willing to sell out your beliefs and damn your self for 8 years because you got stood up for the prom than prove it.
Im betting there not going to bust a grape.
The Fanatics are big in mouth not numbers.
Sarah Palin is the opposite of Clinton.
The move to put her on as VP didnt fool anybody, so if you bite the bait you were going that way anyway.
The focus should now be on communicating the issues and high lighting the difference between Barack Obama and McCain not begging Fanatics to not commit suicide.
Gina, there aren’t as many PUMAs as the media would have us believe. That became crystal clear at the convention where the media actively tried to seek out these “I’ll never vote for Obama” folks…it was obvious that this was one helluva minority…well, that and as of today, Clinton’s debt is stil $22 million dollars. The first PUMA/No Deal/other wingnuts organizational meeting attracted a grand total of 30 people. Screw’em. Obama’s whole grassroots effort (the one flying under the radar that no one pays attention too) is based on bringing in new voters, increasing the 18-24 vote, and swaying disenfranchised conservatives who see the current GOP as a bad late-night joke. People are giving way too much credit to these zealots.
@Roschelle These kind of specious lies and attacks are just the kind of Democratic overreaction the Republicans are counting on. You’re a fool for taking the bait. Just what the Democrats need to do, attack the 16 year old daughter of the candidate. THAT ought to go over well. FOOLS! Y’all really do want to lose this elections. Keep attacking her. Attack her kids. Attack her husband. Attack her baby! Way to rev up outraged women of America. FOOLS!! Roschelle can you explain to me how Governor Palin is managing to breast feed??? I can’t wait until she take the stage to defend her child. Kodak moment. I can hear the strollers rolling to the polls on election day. Playing right into McCain’s hands.
@ clnmike wow “to heck” with potential voters? Yeah that’s a smart attitude in an election that may come do to a few hundred votes in a single state.
@Fauman there are not as many crying weepers as CNN would like you to believe but trust me. White, Black, Male, Female, Arkansas, Delaware, Nevada, California. I met Clinton supporters from all over the country this week at the convention. They aren’t all stark raving made with rage. They are disappointed, hurt and vulnerable to the right pitch. Underestimate the threat at your own peril.
I still can’t wrap my head around Obama supporter who think a certain voting block is disposable.
At all of the Obama supporters who are saying “forget them!” I hope this election does come down to 15,000 votes in Pennsylvania or Ohio.
If those “potential voters” cant vote in their best interest as in Barack Obama, than there aint no amount of butt kissing thats going to bring them around, those votes are lost anyway.
Clnmike said If those “potential voters” cant vote in their best interest as in Barack Obama, than there aint no amount of butt kissing thats going to bring them around, those votes are lost anyway.
Spoken like someone who is prepared to lose this election. Um in case you didn’t notice in the last two defeats of Democratic candidates… people frequently DON’T vote in their best interest.
To get this far and then give up is astounding. All because of pride and distrust. Obama might not win the White House, but at least his most ardent supporters can take pride in not humbling themselves to ask Clinton supporters for their votes. I hope that keeps you warm at night.
“All because of pride and distrust….ask Clinton supporters for their votes”?
Who is being pride full here?
Were talking about people who are willing to sell out their political beliefs and values because their feelings got hurt.
There is no rationalizing with that.
You either have an interest in your future or you do not.
Ask them how well they sleep at night knowing that they couldnt get over their “hurt feelings” to invest in their future.
There is a war with no end in sight.
A lousy economy.
A screwed up health care system.
A growing deficit.
A distrust for us by the nations of the world.
A crippiling education system.
And there going to vote McCain out of spite?
That sound sane to you?
That sounds suicidal to me.
Gina, I think you are so right. I don’t think most Obama supporters understand just what a game-changer Palin is and how much we are playing into this trap. We need absolutely EVERY vote we can get. And to say that no amount of hugging or sales-pitch isn’t going to change anyone’s mind is to underestimate the personal nature of politics. McCain picking Palin wasn’t nothing but a big ole bear-hug to his up-until-now tepid conservative “base”, conservative-to-moderate women, and conservative-but-unexcited youth. We can’t continue this campaign like nothing has happened. The game has changed. And if you’re really an Obama supporter then you understand that it ain’t all about what he does or says, it’s about US influencing others through interpersonal relationships.
One of my employees is a republican; she is also a young, white female attending college. A week ago we had a discussion about the election and she was very underwhelmed by McCain, believing that he had strayed from his moderate leanings on social issues. She was talking about whether she would send her absentee ballot back to her hometown or not (she’s from a swing state). She had no impetus to participate. Since the selection of Palin, she has been on fire. She’s got McCain/Palin all over her Facebook; she’s taling to other conservative classmates to make sure they all send their ballots back home, etc.
McCain has done what he needed to do to get his fringe supporters back in the fold, not only as voters but as advocates. Obama supporters need to do the same to our disenchanted democratic sisters (and brothers) be they PUMAs or regular Hillary supporters or deomcratic moderates or just plain don’t care about politics. We should swallow our pride and do whatever needs to be done to get them back. We have to embody the “new kind of politics” we seek in our own interactions with these folks, because as much as I enjoy politics as entertainment/sport, I also believe that this election is just too important to lose.
@clnmike. This election might be one of the most important of your lifetime with the outcome to have consequences that last for generations and you’re saying you won’t even make the effort.
@teddy you have NO IDEA how this changd the game not just with Clinton supporters, but with the Republican base not to mention all of those independent women that are going to be disgusted by the mounting outright sexist attacks on Palin. McCain knew what he was doing. Too bad many Obama supporters haven’t yet figured that out. Unfortunately there are only 8 weeks to go.
Your right this election is one of the most important in our life time. But the effort has been made and is still being made to the “undecided” voters.
As for the Fanatics they have to choose for themselves.
I am still shocked at McCain’s pick. I didn’t see that coming. I knew his short list was a smokescreen. I have to agree with you Gina on several points.
We all have a right to choose who we want to vote for. There is no need to insult or belittle’s someone’s pick. There is nothing wrong with a debate but no one should be insulted. I think what irked PUMA even more was the fact that HRC was not even on Obama’s short list.
Palin is a good pick I think. She reps most women not matter what color in the US. She is a working mom, married to a working class husband, comes from a working class family, played sports, PTA, and active in her community before she took office. Plus she is a mother of 5, the woman is gangsta! She is pro life but her choice to keep the child with down syndrome says alot about her character.
I think that McCain is running a bad campaign and this move is the best one his camp has made so far. The scary part is that he has energized his base.
I think what everyone should be worried about are the undecided voters who might vote for McCain for this pick. I don’t think McCain was expecting to get all of the 18 million voters but had to figure out a way to get those on the fence. Those are the votes we should be worried about.
I know a good number of PUMA men and women. Some of them need some convincing. Good advice Gina.
“I know a good number of PUMA men and women. Some of them need some convincing. Good advice Gina.”
Yes, but alas folks appeared doomed not to listen to it.
@gem2001
As an OBGYN, I could give you meds to make you lactate. LOL!
@kim and on that note this thread has officiall jumped the shark!!!
please spare me additional info on lactating on demand
@authur THANKS!…OMG….I just went to the http://blog.pumapac.org/ and read some of the 1k or so comments. Wow is all I can say right now. Houston to Obama…we have a PROBLEM!!!!
These folks seem well organized and polticially savvy. I mean they are trying to figure out how to get to the Republican Convention. I’ve been out all day and I know earlier there was some discussion about cutting the program short due to Gustav. If the convention has not be cut short then we need to throw a party..SOMETHING!
Folks please re-read Gina’s post. While there are some die hard PUMA comments on there I still think there is hope, room for discussion and repair. But someone, somebody, actually anybody needs to engage them and quickly.
Now for the folks who have problems with this…I ask you to remember the movie Training Day; specifically the exchange between Alonzo (Denzel) & Jake (Ethan Hawke):
No matter what I say,
you did the right thing.
Reminds me when I was
chasing down bad guys.
Pretty amazing s**T you did
back there.
Thanks.
I noticed you applied that chokehold
though, huh?
That’s a no-no procedure.
I was getting my ass kicked.
You did what you had to do.
YOU DID WHAT YOU HAD TO DO.
As I stated before I have my own issues with Obama, but I know that there are much bigger issues that will be better addressed then the McCain/Plain duo.
thelildiva4u,
I am telling you that I didn’t understand Hillary Clinton supporters until I spoke with them individually. Folks just don’t get it. This isn’t just sour grapes or sore losers. They fell WRONGED by the DNC in a deep and visceral and their treatment at the convention did not help matters.
BUT I am throwing my hands up in the air on this.
Everyone keeps saying “Women won’t vote for Palin. It’s condescending!” WHATEVER!! Of course people vote base don gender, race, who they would like to have a beer with! Duh! How do you think Republicans keep wining the White House? Its not that Hillary Clinton supporters will vote for McCain. Its that they will CONSIDER IT. Its that he has openly acknowledged that he wants their votes and only in the deluded minds of inside the beltway punditocracy would women be offended by the Palin pick. Wishful thinking.
McCain also knew based on the primary that the Democrats and MSM are undisciplined, they would not be able to resist sexist attacks and the idiots over at Daily Kos are hard at work already. I got two words for them…. NEW HAMPSHIRE!!! Except Obama won’t have a South Carolina to rescue him. SMH
McCain’s pick of Palin was calculated and contrived. He thinks he will woo Hillary supporters by selecting a woman, ANY woman, to be his VP. This is the same man who called his wife Cindy a “cunt” in public. This is the same man who’s record on civil rights issues is abysmal. This is the same man who votes consistently with George W. Bush, arguably the worst U.S. president in history. He is a pig who thinks women are stupid enough to support him because he put a woman, any ole woman, on his ticket. This woman has NO executive experience, has not been fully vetted, is under investigation, and is a grandmother. That is NOT her child. Please check these links before the Republicans have them taken down.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/97068
She is supposedly 6 months pregnant in this picture.
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/307-3504041.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg
versus how she looked when she was 7 months pregnant with her first child
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/BLACKAMERICANPRINCESS/palin7months.jpg[/IMG]
This is a picture of the booming metropolis where she got all of her “executive experience”
http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/wasilla.jpg
She admitted herself that she doesn’t even know the role of the vice president! This is the candidate McCain offers up against Biden??
Pathetic. Hopefully Obama and Biden were somewhere popping champagne bottles when McCain announced his VP choice because he has effectively blown the election for the Republicans, thank JESUS. My pocketbook and the world cannot stand 4 more years of the Bush Administration…
And if you support McCain, be prepared to kiss your right to choose goodbye.
@blackamericanprincess
The Republicans are supposed to LOSE this election. Don’t you remember, this is supposed to be the Democrat’s year. So the election for republicans was already blown. McCain essentially had nothing to lose by selecting Palin. A) He isn’t supposed to win anyway. B) He couldn’t win without firing up his base (which Palin has done) C) he can count on people like you to go overboard in your attacks and challenge the idea that Barack Obama is tired of politics as usual. It does not get more tacky, disgusting, and classless to slander a 16 year old girl and target a 4 month old baby.
You are a discredit to Obama and I am sure he is embarassed at what you have posted on this blog today. You say you can’t handle another Bush administration, yet you lack the self discipline and political maturity to not shoot your candidate in the foot.
You are exactly one of the reasons McCain selected Palin. He knew people like you would fall for the okie doke, hook line and sinker and you clearly have.
The Republicans are not going to have those links you posted taken down. They want those links left up. They are going to hold them up and use them to attack Obama. In fact I am counting down the days until you force Obama to have to come out and repudiate your foolishness. I can just see an outraged McCain demand that Obama strongly condemn you. Thanks a bunch for helping them out. Obama had the moral high ground and your lack of discipline is giving it away.
You clearly forgot 8 year ago when the Democrats were predicting that Al gore was gong to wipe the floor with GWB in the debates…. we remember how that turned out. Gore came across as a know it all jerk.
Yes, it was calculated. That is the point of the post. Just like placing the gay marriage issue on ballots was calculated. Guess what? It worked.
Please stop with the accusations that the baby that Palin states is hers is actually the baby of her teenage daughter.
Here is a likely and legal scenario:
Perhaps Palin’s teenage daughter is the “biological” mother of that baby. So what! Perhaps her daughter, because she would never abort a pregnancy, decided to put the baby up for adoption, and she chose to have her parents be the adopters of her baby. Thus, Palin’s teenage daughter forfeited her parental rights to the baby, and her mother is now the adoptive mother of her baby.
A mother who puts her child up for adoption is not legally obligated to ever disclose the fact, to the public, that she did such a thing. Neither is an adoptive parent legally required to disclose the fact, to the public, that she did not give birth to the child.
If Palin did adopt her own teenage daughter’s baby, then that does make that baby Palin’s child. End of story.
@redcatbiker,
They won’t listened. They are clearly brain damaged for spreading this idiocy. They will do to Obama what Pat Buchannan did to George HW Bush at the 92 convention. Their wacky extremism will tick people off and push them away.
The only people who have gone overboard in their attacks is the entire Republican party. Apparently this is not a blog where differing opinions were welcomed and respected. The only thing that is tacky and slanderous is for Palin to try to pass off her grandchild as her child. My zeal for women’s rights does not blind me to the point that I cannot call another woman out on her lies. The only people McCain was trying to appeal to in his selection of Palin are the PUMAs of which I THANKFULLY am not.
Black American Princess said on 8/31 @8:02pm:
“Apparently this is not a blog where differing opinions were [sic] welcomed [sic] and respected.”
That is not true. Just read a few of the comments posted here, and you will see that quite a few commenters have not agreed with the author’s post. Nonetheless, she has allowed those comments to appear on her blog.
@redcatbiker
please don’t feed the trolls.
BTW, the Drudge Report is all over Obama supporters spreading rumors about the daughter. I predict about 48 hours before Obama has to address this idiocy.
You know what. Although, I’m an Obama supporter. I don’t have a problem with Palin adopting her 16 year old’s baby…IF that is indeed what happened.
It would only be news because she’s running for VP. Women across America and the world have done it for years for a variety of reasons, but often to “PROTECT THEIR DAUGHTERS”, and sometimes to try to still allow them to have a life without taking a life.
I hope that’s one of pile of “fertilizer” Obama supporters leave alone. While I’m wishing for stuff, we don’t touch. I’m hoping they leave the topic of experience alone, also. That one could backfire UNPREDICTABLY. She has “little” executive experience. I think if we talk that up too much, we’ll extend the conversation into…by the way.
Exactly what does a senator do again. I think a senator is a professional voter. People educate him/her on the issues, he makes a decision based on (lately, lobbyists & special interest desires) and then they choose Yes/No/Present. There’s a reason, we have chosen a senator for President since…shucks I think Kennedy. I’m not sure.
People like executive experience. Sometimes it doesn’t pay off (Bush, Jr.). But, voters still like it. I think we should talk up the issues. Stay away from the social issues in my opinion also. Stick to health care, because it affects every ethnicity, every age group, every socioeconomic group. Stick to the economy. Again, the overall economy affects everyone.
But, if this digresses into, “Let’s all degrade, Palin”. She could very well get some sympathy votes. Hillary did. When she started sniffling, a few women (I know not us), but a few women started feeling empathetic. I haven’t forgotten that Hillary started winning states.
The last thing we need to do is create this feeling for the Republican candidate. Watch those comments about her “small” state and “small” town backfire, as people start grumbling, “Wait a minute. I live in a small “”.
I think democrats can win this one on the issues, economy, health care, & free trade problems. If we get smug, I think it’ll be Kerry & Gore all over again.
Its that they will CONSIDER IT.
As another board said, McCain doesn’t need all the disaffected Clinton supporters to vote for him, he just needs them to stay home on election day. The attacks on Palin from the left may cause them to do just that.
Professor Tracey at Aunt Jemima’s Revenge wrote an interesting post on McCain VP pick.
http://auntjemimasrevenge.blogspot.com/2008/09/if-john-mccain-was-true-maverick-he.html
“And for all the whining from women about Hillary Clinton, women have been curiously silent about Condi Rice’s treatment. If John McCain wanted to make a ground-breaking historical choice for his party wouldn’t Condolezza Rice have been a much better choice than Sarah Palin? Wasn’t it her turn, as folks argued about Hillary Clinton? Shouldn’t she have at least been asked or vetted for the position?”
If McCain had nothing to lose by choosing Palin, why not pick Condi?
@booksforchildren who said “If McCain had nothing to lose by choosing Palin, why not pick Condi
Because Condi is not a social or fiscal conservative. Condi is actually neoconservative. IN other words, Condi would not have fired up the conservative base. FYI believe it or not. President Bush isn’t conservative either. He just used arch conservatives. Kay Bailey Hutchinson isn’t considered conservative enough either.
@booksforchildren
Kay Bailey is pro-choice. Much of the Republican party was already demoralized because John McCain was nominated. And, truth be told…if the votes hadn’t been split, he wouldn’t have had a chance.
Condi would have been an obvious continuation of the Bush administration that Obama has been trying (successfully) to tie the Bush administration around his neck. And, I agree. This would not have inspired his base. I’ve also heard Condi is a closet Obama supporter, same as Colin Powell.
I think people thought it was Hillary’s turn (at least for VP) because she got 18 million votes. I’m unabashedly a Biden fan, but let’s face it…How many democrats voted for him in comparison?
There are some republicans unhappy with the choice of Palin. They were hoping for Romney or Pawlinty (or whatever his name is). But, quite honestly…it wouldn’t have been nearly as much buzz.
Now, me personally (I’ll wait for my hate mail), I liked Condi Rice. I was miffed about the way she was often treated by both democrats and republicans. I don’t think its productive to tar and feather black republicans simply because they’re black republicans or because they have differing points of views.
To me, many blacks found it totally acceptable to discount her success as a black woman, simply because she was a black woman in Bush’s candidacy. I don’t like Bush, but I can respect her success as a separate accomplishment. The same is true for Colin Powell.
We’ll be overjoyed to see an Obama presidency, but I wonder if we’ll be surprised at all if he makes no attempts to bring more blacks into positions.
Regarding Dr. Rice, the conservative base I am familiar with would have been happy to support her for President; but she stated on many occasions that she was absolutely not interested. There were a number of conservative volunteer groups and websites that sprang up anyway but she finally got it across that she was ‘not interested’, in any elective office.
Condi has apperently just had enough of politics and the world stage, and wants to get back to private life. I believe she has a job in acedeme already arranged; can’t remember exactly what or where.
@Yme
This was all about revving up the base. The fact that he might peel off some Hillary Clinton supporters was just gravy.
One commentor over at Jack and Jill Politics said that I was SUPPORTING McCain’s selection of Palin and that she was permanently deleting this blog from her bookmarks. Good riddance. Nothing worst that an blog reader who can’t read for comprehension.
Yme said “We’ll be overjoyed to see an Obama presidency, but I wonder if we’ll be surprised at all if he makes no attempts to bring more blacks into positions.”
The very nature of the Democratic party means that he is going to have Black staffers. Cabinet members is another thing. I honestly don’t care about the race f his cabinet. just let them be COMPETENT. He can appoint whoever he wants to as long as they can do their jobs.
Well, well…breaking news everyone. To rebut rumors of who the mother of Palin’s child is… Palin has just announced that her 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant and will marry her baby daddy.
I was at the convention too. A delegate on the floor.
I know why California passed too. And its reasons are not at all revealing of anything more than roll call decorum.
There is no there there.
Palin is a cynical choice. A dangerous choice. A radical choice.
McCain isn’t playing chess. He’s playing desperate.
It could work. I’m no fool.
But Sarah Palin is a radical extremist. And John McCain is dangerous.
@La Belle
I saw that the daughter is pregnant. Now I am wondering did she know before or AFTER accepting the nomination?
I think it is really important that people understand Barack Obama’s appeal to non-Black people. They really do believe in hope and change. There is a certain moral authority that they feel Obama’s campaign has.
By reveling in news about Palin’s daughter or spreading rumors about the baby not being Palin’s you run the risk of giving away that high ground. If the Democrats start swiftboating Palin and get mired down in the gutter. It may motivate protective voters or suppress voters who want something other than politics as usual. Fight. Fight like the dickens for the White House, but if you throw away one f your major appeals to voters two months out from the election, you might not get it back.
@craighickman
My sources say otherwise about California. So are you saying that the California delegation was singing Kumbaya???
She knew before; McCain knew before. He said he considered it a “private family matter” and not relevant to Palin’s candidacy.
I expect the media to go after this gleefully and disrespectfully, and the resulting sympathy vote to seal the deal for McCain/Palin.
ps – this was released to put an end to the other story, since Bristol was 1 month pregnant when her mother delivered Trig.
@arthur
It makes you want to rip you hair out and scream “It’s a TRAP! It’s a TRAP!” but alas, they are doomed to fall for it. Don’t underestimate the power of the sympathy vote. NEW HAMPSHIRE-NEW HAMPSHIRE- NEW HAMPSHIRE!
Obama is going to have to address this now.
Again, McCain’s choice was a poor one and the worst political move ever. It was a desperate move. There is no substance. He is not going to get the women vote as he thinks he is. NOT HAPPENING!
This election is displaying a potential slow demise of the Republican Party. If these types of decision making continues, it is going to take another twenty years before the party regains its reputation as the “Grand Ole Party,” unless its younger members rise up and distance themselves from the old heads and the right-wing evangelicals.
@arthur
People will still be counting fingers & toes, but it will definitely be a turn off to me if they decide to take this route.
I actually liked the “new” politics that Obama was saying was possible. I know he can’t control every loose lip, but I’m a new believer that your supporters can sink you faster than the enemy.
YME said”I know he can’t control every loose lip, but I’m a new believer that your supporters can sink you faster than the enemy.”
He already gets blame for what his preacher says in the pulpit. He had to rebuke Wesley Clarke. He had to rebuke Bernie Mac. He had to rebuke his own staffers. OF COURSE he is going to be held responsible for this foolishness with Palin’s daughter.
I said months ago on another board full of acolytes that eventually they would be repudiated by Obama because their behavior was inconsistent with his message of a new kind of politics. Savaging a pregnant teenage girl is political suicide. IT takes the focus off of Palin’s policies and places it on biography.
So now we are going to spend more time talking about how people are treating the daughter than we will about Republican policies.
Like I said. McCain knew exactly what he was doing. In an election where charges of sexism are already hanging out there, this only exacerbates an issue Obama wanted to go away, but his supporters have other plans.
Leave the Alaskan ice princesses alone. Again teenage pregnancy, Palin gets a passed and we know why. Please Obama acolytes don’t touch it! The McCain candidacy is unraveling and self-destructing before our eyes. For all of you frustrated attorneys turned political junkies: res ipsa loquitur.
womenfolkstalk said “He is not going to get the women vote as he thinks he is. NOT HAPPENING!”
@womenfolktalk
What is the basis of that conclusion because I have visited a number of Clinton supporter sites that say otherwise.
McCain doesn’t need them to vote for him. He just needs to dampen their enthusiasm for Obama. Staying at home equals voting for McCain. maybe the women you know wont be fooled by the Palin pick, but don’t assume all women feel that way. McCain doesn’t have to get a majority of the single womens’ vote, just a larger percentage than bush in the right states.
Instead of engaging in wishful thinking about women won’t do, you ought to be focussing on registering voters and opening up a dialog with folks about why you think they should vote for Obama.
I wonder if Obama supporters are happy now.
Is this what they wanted? Or perhaps they would have preferred if Palin’s daughter had an abortion. Or maybe Palin herself should have had an abortion. They would have had a perfect gotcha moment.
Instead those who spread those vicious rumors look small. They drug a private family matter (that a lot of families (regardless of race experience) into the open.
And now Palin is even more the martyr. We know that she walks it like she talks it.
If the GOP conservative wasn’t energized they are now and they may be joined by a lot of conservative, traditional black Christians who might have made the same decisions as she.
BlackAchievement said “Please Obama acolytes don’t touch it! The McCain candidacy is unraveling and self-destructing before our eyes.”
What is crazy is that there was NO WAY McCain was going to win this election with his base being blase’ about him. Obama is going to bring out record Black votes in NC, VA, and GA and some other places, not to mention the youth vote. In 2004, the Democrat almost. ALMOST beat the republican ground machine and Obama is building a stronger machine that Kerry had.
But now all of a sudden McCain has thrown them into a tizzy and Obama supporters are going to cause a New Hamphire effect. I don’t care what the national polls said prior to the DNCC, Obama was leading in electoral college votes. Why one earth are the falling for this Palin trap??
It’s a TRAP! It’s a TRAP! ignore her …. and her kids.
NOTE TO THE IMMATURE AND MENTALLY INFIRM You are welcome to participate in the discussion. We actually like a difference of opinion around here as demonstrated by the volume of comments on this thread. What we will not entertain is romper room antics. We don’t all agree with each other. That’s cool. That’s healthy and normal. If you can’t handle that. Keep moving. There are too many blogs out there for you to waste your time writing a comment that will never be posted.
xoxo
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PS. If you NEVER come back again EVER. EVER. EVER because you don’t like a post or comment… I consider that a bonus!
@Gem2001…I can certainly understand your views and opposition as to why we (liberals, Obama supporters,etc) need to leave this alone. However, I listen to an utter here a few nights ago. It was about 7 minutes long and to summarize …it was about sticking by what you believe in…you also asked that commenters, emailers, etc. refrain from “name calling”. I ask today that you do the same. the “You’re a fool if….” was really not necessary. I do enjoy your blog and you are an excellent writer and a beautiful thinker. Just practice what you preach.
BTW, I am taking New Hampshire into consideration. So as far as I’m concerned the Palin children are off limits…any of the candidate’s children for that matter.
As someone stated earlier, the Republican party is self-destructing and unraveling on it’s own.
Roshcelle being called a fool does not compare with being called a race traitor or an uncle tom or aunt ann. If you are engaged in foolishe behavior, then you are a fool. People didn’t have a problem when i called debra Lee the devil. Of Hip hop the regime of “Booty, Bullets and Bling.”
Now all of a sudden you want to try to muzzel me. Whatever! Get over it. I am practicing what I preach I haven’t called folks nearly as much as I have thought about calling them. Y’all aren’t slick. the reason you want me to shut up is because i didn’t walk lock step with you on this issue. Oh well get over it.
On that note because there isn’t a single thing more we can add to a thread with 200 comments I think we can end this particular debate. I think all sides have been represented in the comments so far and no minds will be changed one way of or the other.
THE. END.